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uncertaindrumer · 05-09-2005, 03:45 PM

First off, I am just letting you know that I know VERY LITTLE about Mormons, so unlike my debates with Protestantism where I can come out guns blazing, I am just trying to figure out what you believe, so don't take anything as acrimonious.

Second, what evidence have you to suggest that Revelation was written the same time as the Gospels? All the evidence I have seen and read points toward it being the last of the writings, towards the end of John's life.

Clearly, the Trinity is a difficult subject. We CAN'T understand it fully. But the Bible NEVER claims Jesus was created, and he always claims to be God, and yet at the same time that there is only one God. The only real explanation for this is the Trinity. Even if as humans we can't fully understand it, that doesn't make it impossible.

As for the beginning thing. Jesus founded a CHURCH. He says in Matthew that peter is the rock upon which he will build his "church". The epistles constantly refer to the "church". There was a CHURCH directly after Jesus ascended into heaven. Now, I do not know much about Mormonism, but are you claiming that was a Mormon church? Because if it was, the writings, letters, and books written by men of the early church should be mormon, and I can show you that they aren't.

Also, all the "churches" springing up around now are not Jesus' one true church. How could Jesus found a church that doesn't begin until 1900 years after his existance? Did he leave his followers helpless for so long? I would say no. Also, there most certainly WAS religion during the Roman era, I have no idea what you are reading. Nero's persecution is well documented, and yet you would have us say there is no church? (once again, I reiterate, I am not attacking your position, I am trying to understand it). Various Church Fathers wrote scores of material, including (but not limited to) Clement, Irenaus, Ignatius of Antioch, etc. I can point you toward MANY early church documents, all of which, by the way, support the Trinity, Jesus being the Son of God yet not created, and various other doctrines.

Either way, this has been enlightening, I hope no on takes my questions as personl attacks or anything like that. Cheers.

05-09-2005, 03:45 PM	#32
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	First off, I am just letting you know that I know VERY LITTLE about Mormons, so unlike my debates with Protestantism where I can come out guns blazing, I am just trying to figure out what you believe, so don't take anything as acrimonious. Second, what evidence have you to suggest that Revelation was written the same time as the Gospels? All the evidence I have seen and read points toward it being the last of the writings, towards the end of John's life. Clearly, the Trinity is a difficult subject. We CAN'T understand it fully. But the Bible NEVER claims Jesus was created, and he always claims to be God, and yet at the same time that there is only one God. The only real explanation for this is the Trinity. Even if as humans we can't fully understand it, that doesn't make it impossible. As for the beginning thing. Jesus founded a CHURCH. He says in Matthew that peter is the rock upon which he will build his "church". The epistles constantly refer to the "church". There was a CHURCH directly after Jesus ascended into heaven. Now, I do not know much about Mormonism, but are you claiming that was a Mormon church? Because if it was, the writings, letters, and books written by men of the early church should be mormon, and I can show you that they aren't. Also, all the "churches" springing up around now are not Jesus' one true church. How could Jesus found a church that doesn't begin until 1900 years after his existance? Did he leave his followers helpless for so long? I would say no. Also, there most certainly WAS religion during the Roman era, I have no idea what you are reading. Nero's persecution is well documented, and yet you would have us say there is no church? (once again, I reiterate, I am not attacking your position, I am trying to understand it). Various Church Fathers wrote scores of material, including (but not limited to) Clement, Irenaus, Ignatius of Antioch, etc. I can point you toward MANY early church documents, all of which, by the way, support the Trinity, Jesus being the Son of God yet not created, and various other doctrines. Either way, this has been enlightening, I hope no on takes my questions as personl attacks or anything like that. Cheers. __________________ Titans baby, Titans. Last edited by uncertaindrumer : 05-09-2005 at 03:47 PM.