[Higher_Desire]

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

higher desire i'm open to keep this going and i won't start the finger pointing. what this boils down to me is that jospeh smith stated that the true message was lost through the ages and the corruption of the church perhaps in the medieval period. the problem here is that this is plainly false because we have the ancient texts and we can prove they were not changed at least to any degree worth worrying about.

The TEXTS were not changed. The way the texts were PREACHED and the practices of the people were what changed and corrupted early churches. That's what Martin Luther was rebelling against way back when and led the reformation for into Lutheranism. Than he began to set it back to how it was. That's kind of the same as what happened with Joseph Smith.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

if joseph translated from a language other than those three and its a language that we can't translate fully (like we can for those three)

Yeah. That's what I told you.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

then how is anyone supposed to make sure it says what joseph said it says? the golden tablets apparently came and gone so we can't check those.

Like I said before, we don't know exactly what they said. That's why there's so much controversy among opposing sides. It's a matter of faith.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

with the christian bible we can check all of those writings and other texts that are not believed to be inspiried that are mentioned in the new testament by paul for example.

What do you mean "christian bible"? The bible is the bible. Sure there's different translations, like the King James, New King James, New International, New Revised Standard, Good News, and all the countless others, but they're used in many religions. I don't think I understand what you're saying in the second half. Mormons use the Bible just like the Book of Mormon; they're companions to each other. There are parallels between them and support each other. As for the Bible supporting claims that the BoM is false... in any situation, you can find ways to make anything match your view. Sure there may be some contridictory things, but there's supportive things too. The bible says different things in different areas that contradict itself, so are we to believe that the Bible is therefore false? I don't think so. Just as the Bible was written by different people (aka Prophets), so was the Book of Mormon.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

if you look at charecters like paul and peter (well peter after christ's ascension) you will see zero fear of death and they never hid from anyone

Let me ask you this... Are you afraid to die AND do you want to die? Just becuase you're not afraid doesn't mean your going to go out looking to get shot. If someone a group of people came yelling at you with guns, wouldn't you do something to protect yourself? Paul and Peter weren't afraid of dying, but do you seriously think they were wanting or wishing to die?

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

and john the baptist you may remember called the religious leaders a "brood of vipers" and pointed out herod's adultery and was killed for it.

Yeah. Once again, not everyone who had more than one wife was doing for "the right reason" as commanded by God. Just like now, there's guys in many countries, including America, that have more than one wife. Does that mean they're doing it in the same way as everyone else? And, there are opposing views on every topic.

Look, remember that we're talking here about three very different times. Around 35 A.D. (after Christ's death), 1800s A.D. (Joseph Smith's time) and 2000s A.D. (our time). Things aren't going to be exactly the same all the way throughout; word-for-word, letter-for-letter, number-for-number. If it was the same, we'd be living in a cave somewhere still amazed with these wonderful new inventions of fire and wheels.
God changes things. His laws change. For example; the Law of Moses, which included offering burnt sacrifices to the Lord. After the crusixion of Christ, that was done away with because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, the most perfect lamb, and no sacrifice could match up. So because one great thing happened, the law was changed.

Do you understand?

Quote: (Originally Posted by King X)

This is a massive case of

too long didnt read

So it makes perfect sence to post something, right?


H-D