[Higher_Desire]

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

if you have enough of this discussion say so, but i'm willing to keep at this because i honestly believe there is error here. when the scriptures say we are children of the ruler of this world (ie satan) its not biologically but in a spirtual sense until/if that person is saved via grace through faith. There is simply NOTHING in the bible which points to Jesus and Satan being brothers (or Jesus having one plan for salvation and Satan other in fact there was no need for human salavation until Satan came along) and the whole premise of this belief stands and falls with Jospeh Smith.

I think what this comes down to is that we just have our own different opinions. As humans, we have the power of thinking, and people think differently. There's always more than one opinion. I just believe it makes sence given that since we are told he was and angel, and as the Bible states, we are all children of the same father, and that includes Lucifer.

Also, I also don't mind keeping the discussion open so long as it is done in a respectful manner, and doesn't turn into finger pointing, he-said/she-said, there's no chance for you, yadda yadda yadda that's happened in the past.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

Would you agree that if Joseph Smith is shown to be a false prophet the whole religion falls?

Absolutely. The whole premise our church is built on is that God and Jesus Christ appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the sacred grove. Even our President, Gordon B. Hinckley, has stated that if that did not happen, then this is the greatest apostacy that has ever happened. He has also stated that if it did happen, then this is the singlemost greatest work to ever occur.

Also, it must be LIGITAMENT proof against him. Not one or two half points that are not part of the big picture.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

The colour of people's skin has nothing to do with what angels they came from. A simple genetics course will tell you its all genetics and so this doesn't stand up to the very simple laws of science. If this theory (not a theory in the scientific sense) were true you would expect great differences in the races but no such divisions exist as I stated earlier.

I never said the color of people's skin had to do with what angel they came from. I'm not sure where you picked that up.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

It is historical fact that Joseph Smith was killed by gunfire after trying to escape after being imprisioned for polygamy (what happened to obeying the laws of caesar?).

Not quite. He wasn't trying to escape, and he was not in prison for polygimy. He was in prison many times because people saw him as a false prophet and wanted to get rid of him. He was shot and killed by a mob who thought he was false and leading people away from God. And about the law of Caesar, if we still had to obey all the same laws they use to, why are we not offering burnt sacrifices?

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

If he was so sure of his eternal fate why would he be willing to shoot others to stay alive? Look at Paul for example who had no fear of death whatsoever, same deal with all of the other 12 apostles after Christ's ascension.

When did he shoot people? He was not afraid to die. As he was going to be put to death (one of many times) he said "I am going like a lamb to the slaughter, but I am calm as a summer's morning. I have a mind devoid of hostility to God or my fellow man." It is true that he tried to hide in the room (as did the others in there), but wouldn't you hide if a bunch of guys came charging at you and trying to shoot you? Just because he wasn't afraid to die, didn't mean he wanted to die.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

We know exactly what the texts say from their orignal languages of Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek because we can translate them. They were not changed (at least not affecting doctrine there were words here and there) and so Smith was just plainly wrong. Same deal with the Book of Abraham and the Egyptian illustrations, we know he was wrong.

Yes, we do know how to translate Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek, but the writings he translated from were NOT any of those three. They are only what have been described as "Egyptian-like in nature." THAT is what I was talking about that no one knows EXACTLY what it says. No one in any country with any degree from any school knows precisely what it says.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

You are right in that God will judge us all but I was fairly sure Mormons would not few other "christians" as christians if you get what i'm saying.

Not sure that I understand. We are Christian. There's no way around that. Who's to decide who is the most "Christian."

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder)

Most evanglicals would not view the Church of Christ and Later Day Saints as a true church. Anyhow good talking to ya......

Well, to each his own. And for future reference (only personal nit-picking here), the full name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


H-D