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uncertaindrumer · 10-02-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote: Agreed abiogenesis is an assumption that both sides make mine is with out involvment from a deity you is with involvment of a deity. so yes either of us arguing this is moot at this point

I certainly do not make such an assumption. I have God creating the universe. You have nothing creatign the universe. Hence, I am obeying the rules of science and you aren't.

Quote: I would like to the the progressive steps in wich you reach such a conclusion.

I'll do that when we come to an agreement about god existing in the first place

Quote: ok we will assume notting more than we are here.... that is the axiom of the discussion.

Exactly. My answer to why we are here is God put us here. You don't really have an answer unless you have come up with somethign that millinos of atheists throughout history have failed to do.

Quote: the assumptions that I was refering to when it comes to christianity are a few....

Okay let's see....

Quote: 1. There is a god

No an assumption. Here is the syllogism:

We exist. An effect needs a cause. Hence, something had to cause us. This effect is called God.

Quote: 2. He created the world and life on it and is involved in it

That he created the world is easy to show. That He is involved in it is not an assumption, and though might not be scientifically proveable (but then, plenty of things you take for granted aren't either), it is reasonable to assume He would create us for a purpose.

Quote: 3. Jesus was his son and he was crucified.

Well, we seem to be getting way off-topic here, but this is not an assumption. Based on the evidence, many believe that Jesus was God. This is not an assumption, it is a deduction.

Quote: 4. everything in the bible is true (now I know that one may be different with you because the catholic church has said that some parts of the bible should be ignored and maybe you can outline that later)

The Catholic Church does not say anything in the Bible is untrue. Indeed, the Catholic Church wrote and compiled the Bible's lsit of inspired books and holds it all to be the inspired word of God. However, the Church also admits the metaphorical speaking of Genesis which I believe you are refering to (the Church does not hold any young earth notions, etc.).

Quote: 5. that there is a heaven and hell

Well surely you understand this is not an assumption. This comes from many other things, i.e. Jesus, His apostles, the Church, etc.

Quote: 6. that prophacy (in the bible) has yet to happen

Huh? I dont understand this one.

Quote: ummm..... no

Abiogenis is not with out its questions true, but your jump form there to the necessity of a god is premature at this juncture in the discussion.

Seems fine to me. You haven't been able to show why god isn't necessary.

10-02-2006, 10:20 AM	#27
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: I found this interesting. Quote: Agreed abiogenesis is an assumption that both sides make mine is with out involvment from a deity you is with involvment of a deity. so yes either of us arguing this is moot at this point I certainly do not make such an assumption. I have God creating the universe. You have nothing creatign the universe. Hence, I am obeying the rules of science and you aren't. Quote: I would like to the the progressive steps in wich you reach such a conclusion. I'll do that when we come to an agreement about god existing in the first place Quote: ok we will assume notting more than we are here.... that is the axiom of the discussion. Exactly. My answer to why we are here is God put us here. You don't really have an answer unless you have come up with somethign that millinos of atheists throughout history have failed to do. Quote: the assumptions that I was refering to when it comes to christianity are a few.... Okay let's see.... Quote: 1. There is a god No an assumption. Here is the syllogism: We exist. An effect needs a cause. Hence, something had to cause us. This effect is called God. Quote: 2. He created the world and life on it and is involved in it That he created the world is easy to show. That He is involved in it is not an assumption, and though might not be scientifically proveable (but then, plenty of things you take for granted aren't either), it is reasonable to assume He would create us for a purpose. Quote: 3. Jesus was his son and he was crucified. Well, we seem to be getting way off-topic here, but this is not an assumption. Based on the evidence, many believe that Jesus was God. This is not an assumption, it is a deduction. Quote: 4. everything in the bible is true (now I know that one may be different with you because the catholic church has said that some parts of the bible should be ignored and maybe you can outline that later) The Catholic Church does not say anything in the Bible is untrue. Indeed, the Catholic Church wrote and compiled the Bible's lsit of inspired books and holds it all to be the inspired word of God. However, the Church also admits the metaphorical speaking of Genesis which I believe you are refering to (the Church does not hold any young earth notions, etc.). Quote: 5. that there is a heaven and hell Well surely you understand this is not an assumption. This comes from many other things, i.e. Jesus, His apostles, the Church, etc. Quote: 6. that prophacy (in the bible) has yet to happen Huh? I dont understand this one. Quote: ummm..... no Abiogenis is not with out its questions true, but your jump form there to the necessity of a god is premature at this juncture in the discussion. Seems fine to me. You haven't been able to show why god isn't necessary. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.