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Higher_Desire · 01-02-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) salvation is by faith although james rightly clarifies that if there are no works then there is no salvation. however it is a VERY important distinction that works do NOT save a person.

If someone is saved by works then there is no need for grace. Furthermore what would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross if we can save ourselves. Jesus then ceases to be the saviour and we become the saviour becaues we are doing the work and becoming acceptable to God. Don't you think its a little arrogant to take this stance?

Holy Christ. We're going around in circles here and it's getting really old. You are not SAVED by works, and I never said you were. The references I quoted stated that you are JUDGED by your works. God judges based upon what you did and how he judges our rightousness and our passage into heaven. That is grace. It is because we are each judged individually and there isn't only one judgement for everybody.

How can you dispute those verses that as clearly as day say "Faith without works is dead."?

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) Also Hebrews 11 documents great men and women of faith such as Abraham and Noah and repeatedly saids "by faith they were saved" when they obeyed. Their obedience was the proof of their faith but its not what saved them.

You said contradicted yourself. You said that they were saved by faith, and then that faith is not what saved them. They worked through their obedience to God and showed their faith. Also, they were tested and still stayed focused on God.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) There is no problem in Jesus being baptized because baptism does not save but is a public profession of faith and Jesus obeyed God and humbled himself to John the Baptist by immersing himself in that river.

It's good how out of all my questions you only attempted one. Though baptism is public, it's not just a way of saying "Hey world! Look at me!" Baptism is the physical declaration one makes to God to show that they promise to live by his commandments and to turn away from the sins of they world and their own personal idolitary ways. Last time I checked, Jesus didn't need to have any sins washed away because he didn't have any.

H-D

01-02-2005, 10:48 PM	#39
Higher_Desire USER INFO » Status: Found Peace Posts: 8,631 Joined: Apr 2003 Currently: Offline	Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) salvation is by faith although james rightly clarifies that if there are no works then there is no salvation. however it is a VERY important distinction that works do NOT save a person. If someone is saved by works then there is no need for grace. Furthermore what would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross if we can save ourselves. Jesus then ceases to be the saviour and we become the saviour becaues we are doing the work and becoming acceptable to God. Don't you think its a little arrogant to take this stance? Holy Christ. We're going around in circles here and it's getting really old. You are not SAVED by works, and I never said you were. The references I quoted stated that you are JUDGED by your works. God judges based upon what you did and how he judges our rightousness and our passage into heaven. That is grace. It is because we are each judged individually and there isn't only one judgement for everybody. How can you dispute those verses that as clearly as day say "Faith without works is dead."? Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) Also Hebrews 11 documents great men and women of faith such as Abraham and Noah and repeatedly saids "by faith they were saved" when they obeyed. Their obedience was the proof of their faith but its not what saved them. You said contradicted yourself. You said that they were saved by faith, and then that faith is not what saved them. They worked through their obedience to God and showed their faith. Also, they were tested and still stayed focused on God. Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) There is no problem in Jesus being baptized because baptism does not save but is a public profession of faith and Jesus obeyed God and humbled himself to John the Baptist by immersing himself in that river. It's good how out of all my questions you only attempted one. Though baptism is public, it's not just a way of saying "Hey world! Look at me!" Baptism is the physical declaration one makes to God to show that they promise to live by his commandments and to turn away from the sins of they world and their own personal idolitary ways. Last time I checked, Jesus didn't need to have any sins washed away because he didn't have any. H-D __________________ Today I'm gonna try a little harder Gonna make every minute last longer Gonna learn to forgive and forget 'Cause we don't have long Gonna make the most of it Today I'm gonna love my enemies Reach out to somebody who needs me Make a change, make the world a better place 'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late --lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet from their new album "Awake"