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uncertaindrumer · 04-03-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) If you'd like I can get you materal on objective natualistic morality. gimmie a bit here I need to go out and run some errands.

I suppose I wouldn't mind although most of the relevant material I have read always starts bordering on pantheism, which I can barely even talk about it is so pathetic.

Basically I am wary of reading anything on the subject because it seems useless. As soon as one says "objective morality" it means something beyond humans (since, if it isn't higher than it isn't objective). And that seems to deny atheism right away. I guess one can make the argument that the moral law is not a God per se, but it is still higher than humans, and it has to have come from somwhere, and that somewhere also *has* to be higher than humans, which would then, effectively deflate any notion that humans are as high as it gets, which is what most atheists mean by their atheism.

There are many other problems with "morality outside God", such as how we know of this morality, but the first one is the one which just seems to nip the whole darn thing in the bud.

04-03-2006, 04:24 PM	#49
uncertaindrumer USER INFO » Status: Wound Up Posts: 1,255 Joined: Dec 2004 Currently: Offline	Re: Atheism growing in America Quote: (Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow) If you'd like I can get you materal on objective natualistic morality. gimmie a bit here I need to go out and run some errands. I suppose I wouldn't mind although most of the relevant material I have read always starts bordering on pantheism, which I can barely even talk about it is so pathetic. Basically I am wary of reading anything on the subject because it seems useless. As soon as one says "objective morality" it means something beyond humans (since, if it isn't higher than it isn't objective). And that seems to deny atheism right away. I guess one can make the argument that the moral law is not a God per se, but it is still higher than humans, and it has to have come from somwhere, and that somewhere also has to be higher than humans, which would then, effectively deflate any notion that humans are as high as it gets, which is what most atheists mean by their atheism. There are many other problems with "morality outside God", such as how we know of this morality, but the first one is the one which just seems to nip the whole darn thing in the bud. __________________ Titans baby, Titans.