[Dogstar]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Echelon122)

Someone asked what other shows there were "problems" at...so I spouted off the ones in Fall 2002 I could recall.

Yes, I asked...tremonti4life

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Tampa, according to a friend that was there, he was kinda "all over the place" for emotions...I can't really discribe it.

Then don't cite this as an example of a show in which he wasn't himself unless you can provide some concrete information, like Chicago. *All over the place* doesn't tell me squat.

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Dayton, PSU....PSU was the stage problems, which I totally get where the Band was getting frustrated and Stapp getting pissy...I still find his swearing commical. Dayton...smiliar to PSU re attitude...add alcohol.

Similar in what way, that there were technical problems, a power failure, and he got pissy? Crappy crowd? Add alcohol? Was he stammering, stuttering, slurring/forgetting words, stumbling and bumbling? You have to do better than that.

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Spokane...was drunk. Not to the Chicago degree, but none-the-less, it was apparnet he wasn't sober.

Again, details please. A simple statement that you say he was drunk doesn't really cut it.

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Chicago...anything beyond drunk (and prior to) would be speculation. I've heard about 30 different things about it, only some of which actually add up, and even then, I wasn't backstage that night.

I didn't asked about this show, as that one's been well-documented. I asked about shows other than PSU and Chicago.

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His "relationship" and problems with the Ex Hillaree are well documented...so that's nothing new. And the ego comment...well maybe that was more a personal opinion on it, but there is no denying the man does have one.

No doubt, but your insinuation that he has a shitload of problems that he has to sort out implied that they went beyond his well-documented problems with his ex-wife. Shitload implies many.

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Nope, I don't know him personally, but that doesn't mean I am not aware of situations and other things.

Ok, whatever, another supposed *in the know* person who has heard it from some second- to eighth-hand person. Sorry, but unless you know of his supposed problems from your own experience or from some other credible source that can be cited, I think you should keep those kinds of comments to yourself.

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I might be new here, but I'm by no means a "newbie" when it comes to Creed. I'm a much more "aware" fan than I was four years ago. I know what I've seen at shows, and what friends whom I trust have seen. I know where to look when I have questions, and I discuss things with people. But there's also stuff that will not see the light of day on a BB from me, because I have respect for the people they concern and the people who told it to me.

*rolls eyes* Blah, blah, blah, again, you have no credible sources except for friends, who no doubt are fans just as yourself. If you can't cite better sources than that, then you're not a credible source, so keep your suppositions about his personal crap to yourself or take them back to Creedpit where the drama runs rampant. I'm not interested in rumor, innuendo or supposed fact unless you can back it up.

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Basically my respect for him goes down more and more with each spun PR line he spews, and with each interview calling fans liars (Orlando Sentinal RE: Chicago and the Abrahms Report). When you can't accept the blame for your fuckup and continue to pass it off as something else, then I can NOT respect that. Own up, take the hit, get past it, move on with your life...THAT I can respect.

No quibble with you there...He went down several points in my estimation when he spewed the BS about Chicago.