[Lunar Shadow]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Justify)

I think he says this because we as Christians believe "once saved, always saved". If God truely convicted you and showed you that Jesus is the Son of God and forgives all sins then you would have never left. When we are saved then we are given the holy spirit and the spirit is always with you. Some people believe they were once saved because they believed it at the time in their minds. The belief cannot just rest in your mind. Even the devil believes that Jesus was the Son of God. I'm not comparing you to the devil by any means so please don't take it that way. All I think he is trying to say is that if you are an Atheist now then you were never truely a Christian. Being a Christian means that you were saved by God through Jesus Christ. It doesn't just mean that you went to a Christian Church and believed it at the time. You have to pray that God will come into your heart and believe that Jesus died for you sins in order to be a Christian. If you never did that then you were never a Christian.

I know what he is saying it is this mentality that makes Christianity cultish. let me break it down for you.... I was born to an ordained minister and professor of theology (my father) and to a missionary kid (my mother) I grew up in the church and accepted Jesus as my saviour at about the age of 4 or 5 (by the model of confessing with my mouth and believeing in my heart, keep in mind there was a time when you believed in Santa Clause but you no longer do... does that mean that you never did believe? no it doesn't). I was active in the church and it ministries for well over a decade through Jr high and high school and was at church every Sunday and Wednesday. About a little over a year ago I started to educate myself in church history and deep study of doctrine and such and their origins. The things I found made me come to the logical conclusion that Christianity wasn't olny a false religion but more so that it was impossible to come from god at all.... I studied further studying science logic and reason (among other things) and came to the conclusion that not only was god was improbable but much rather impossible. I came to this conclusion because of the sheer fact that there is no real evidence for his existance. And any word games or mental gymnastics that you try to give proof is ilogical (give me one of your proofs and I will explain why.) now if you want to have an honest convertation involving facts rather than belief and emotionalism than we can talk I would be more than happy to teach you about logic and reason...


Uncertain Drummer is a logical person (for the most part) and he still believes in god and I can't really condemn him for that because he come to his conclusion even after leaning science and logic and he still believes in god. So he for the most part came to his conclusion honestly (for him not me) good for him if he can believe that there is a god I really can get mad at him for that. I disagree with him on his interpretations greatly but at least he and I can have intelegent (for the most part) debates about the subject.