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Old 06-15-2009, 07:42 PM   #4
Status: Broken Dream
Posts: 160
Joined: Dec 2008
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Re: Love This E-Mail I Got

But now, this notion of not being a war on religion... it is a war on faith and belief. That's the sum total of the war, the controversy that we're all in right now, if you are a believer... or quite frankly even if you're not.

But is Obama the enemy? Is the atheist who wants "In God We Trust" or "One nation under God" or the 10 Commandments removed from a courthouse, is that person the enemy? Not really

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."
Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh ad blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

That's where Satan likes to operate... in places and in the minds of those with authority. He likes to operate in government... we'll take away your rights but it's for your own good because the government knows best. We'll inject just a wee bit of socialism here. If we can do that without any objection, then we'll add a little more here. Then a little more, a little more, and then eventually you're not living in a free nation where you're free to make your own life and way. You're living in a nation where the government controls how you live, what you make, and what you get to keep.

Satan likes to operate in the classroom, and in the science labs. "Everyone knows that evolution is a proven fact for how every life form today came to be. It's just superstition to believe the notion that God actually created and formed all life. It all originated from some single cell and millions or billions of years later... boom, here we all are. Now we'll call it "theory" but we'll teach it as undisputed fact and defend it as if it were our religion."

Satan loves to operate in the financial arena. Do whatever he can to put people in debt and keep them there, put nations in debt and keep them there. I'll guarantee you that very few Americans are aware of the fact that one of the greatest enemies we have faced both in the past and certainly today is the Federal Reserve, or any centralized "national banking system"... the Fed had a forerunner known as the Second Bank of the United States. Andrew Jackson fought against them and they tried to have him killed. Typical of Satan's children, going back to the Pharisees, but really going back to Cain, who was the first murderer.

And of course Satan loves loves LOVES to operate in the churches. There is a famine that we're experiencing right now. It's not a famine for bread or for water, but for hearing the truth, as it says in Amos 8:11. I don't know, how many churches today teach the whole unvarnished truth, chapter by chapter from the Word of God, without apology, and without man's tradition and denominational doctrine?

The bottom line is the whole point of all of this is that we are at war over religious ideas... and it's not a war of guns, of bombs, but of ideas. It takes place between people in the same country, it takes place in conflicts amongst nations. It's a war between good and evil, God and Satan, and all of us are in the middle of it, like it or not... and every idea you have, every stance you take, every belief that you hold dear puts you on one side or the other.

Let's take a look at the First Amendment, and let's try to look at and consider the context of things. Naturally, when it's all said and done people are still going to disagree. But, I want to take a look at it regardless.

Keli quoted it, and it is the exact wording, so let's take that.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof .... "

Now, first of all, naturally there's nothing in there saying anything but a separation of church and state, or a "wall of separation". Now I know where that idea comes from, and I trust Keli does as well, and many others probably do too. But we'll leave that alone for right now.

First of all, what is Congress here? What is the body being talked about? It is, obviously the United States Congress, or the federal legislative branch. So that's the first thing we need to get squared away right out of the gate, is that we're dealing not with anything state or local, but we're dealing with the federal legislative branch.

Ok, what's a law? It seems like a simple question, maybe even a stupid one. But what's a law?

1law Listen to the pronunciation of 1law
Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse lǫg law; akin to Old English licgan to lie more at lie
before 12th century

1 a (1): a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2): the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules (3

So, let's say that a law is a binding custom or rule of conduct that is enforced by a controlling authority.

So in effect we're saying that the federal legislative branch shall not make a binding rule that people are forced to comply to respecting an establishment of religion, or free exercise thereof.

Has that ever happened? Has it ever happened?

When someone gets upset at Christmas because there's a manger outside the local courthouse, was that a case of the United States Congress saying, "That manger will go outside that courthouse in Podunkville, Oregon and everyone in Podunkville shall kneel down when they pass that courthouse and pray and thank God Almighty for His Son Jesus Christ, and violaters will be fined or jailed."

You see, not only hasn't that happened, part of the issue is this. So many people get offended at seeing something religious, or more to the point, almost always something christian, that they say "Well that's a violation of my first amendment rights". Oh? So that's a law having to do with something that our United States Congress passed there in that town of 200 people that barely shows up on the map huh? Well I guess Congress just didn't have anything better to do with there time that day, apparently.

You see, if anything, religion by and large is a matter regulated by and in the jurisdiction of the states, and their own state constitutions. That's the very way the founding fathers wanted it, that's the way it's supposed to be settled. Most scholars of the constitution agree on that. Now, maybe someone has an issue that stands in violation of a state constitution, although I'm sure state constitutions get misinterpreted and torn apart as well. It's interesting too that while separation proponents like to point out the Constitution is a "Godless document", but from what I've seen I believe every state constitution makes mention in some way of God... the mentions are brief and don't say "Praise Jesus" or anything like that, but they are there.

But beyond that, let's consider the religious persecution angle. What were the issues they had with the Church of England, and what did they see as bad or negative about it? Well for one thing they certainly didn't want a "national church" that everyone had to attend. They didn't want the leader of their government to be the head of the church, as was the case in England. Those who did not want to be part of the king's church were looked down upon and discriminated against. Quite simply, I believe that was the whole intent of "establishing a religion"... Congress would not, the government would not create a national church, as England had. They saw the problems with that, lived them in fact. I don't believe the "establishment clause" keeps government from encouraging or expressing a religion, and I don't believe the founding fathers did either.

You can find quotes that say this, quotes that say that from Founding Fathers that seemingly lend support to both sides. So when in doubt, I look at what they did... how they governed, what they allowed... and quite simply looking at the actions of the very founding fathers and our early government, many of today's separation advocates would declare the very authors of the constitution and bill of rights as doing things that were "unconstitutional" and violated the establishment clause. Just taking a guess, I would imagine that they knew more what they were talking about and what they meant than what we do.

So I'm guessing that if they wanted to hold church services in the capitol building, it must have been constitutional. I'm guessing if they wanted to distribute bibles and give money to missionaries, it must have been ok constitutionally. Quite frankly, if not, they were some of the most rogue,corrupt, and hypocritical leaders ever, and I don't believe that. I don't think the people they represented believed that either.

By the way, I believe it is vital that we consider the original intent of the founding fathers when drafting the first amendment. This is a relatively brief but pretty good essay on that.

But to say it's not a war on religion, well it's a war on faith. If it's not, why would we ever consider removing protections from doctors who don't want to perform abortions for religious reasons? Why would we seek to tear down the institutes, the ideas, the beliefs that formed this country and helped it prosper?

And see, to me, legislation from Washington that prohibits students from meeting at school for prayer or bible study is exactly a violation of the First Amendment.... Congress passing a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

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