[bilal]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

On the one hand this is, excuse me for pointing it out, a very stupid remark, on the other hand it's probably true, because you know you exist, you do not have to believe it. This is the difference between knowledge and belief.

oh Mr. Ralphy, I guess you realy did'nt had any need to make fun of the faith that I have ……. calling my feelings as stupid...., but that is just how i feel....... and i am not ashamed of it ........ cause I know that, just like you, I am temporary, and God has been here even before there was any galaxy or universe, even before there was any ear or mind to know about his existence….. and that is the reason I said that I believe in HIS existence more than I do in my own…… I am here right now, gone tomorrow……… someone else will replace me….. and so one day you will make your way to your grave too ….. and since death is more certain to occur, matter of few years, then whether or not we see the daylight tomorrow, you will be sure to say that death is more real than life……. a matter of comparision actually…… which to me is probably why I consider myself as non-existent as I may be in a matter of few years…. hehe… its just a way that I TRY to feel, has helped me be a little better man at some occasions……..

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

I am sorry, that I pissed you off, that was not my intention and I do have respect for those who at least studied and researched the basis of their local religion and maybe there are more of them as I assume, but I bet you that they are outnumbered by those who dare not challenge the roots of the belief system they've grown up in.

and you bet you are right……. Ralph, here I would connect it a to the main matter, which you claim for which you posted this thread for, and that is the religious preachers that knock on your door……and preach you…… the reason that I think YOU are pissed off at them, and why I have felt piss off my self with my own religious folks, is that since we have tried to critically analyze the religious structures around us, we can feel a flavor of insincerity in their words, and why I feel pissed off with such folks is that they want followers but not the leaders……… and they don’t accept any criticism and refuse to argue on the matter of religion…… I am not sure you agree with me here… .but this is the way I feel with them, I being Muslim, I get other Muslim folks knocking on my door narrating stuff to me…… although I believe in the Stock they narrate to me, the system of preaching religion, i.e the system of conveying religion from one generation to another is not based on rich arguments but as you said, they were just born in it and then they carry it the same way……. here, I think, is a set back to all religious communities…..

ofcource, you and I both need to clarify our own versions of what we think this process of “challenging fundamentalism of our beliefs before reaching conclusions” acutallly is, but I guess you and I both agree atleast on the concept or the need for it…….

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

And I ask you, Bilal, have you ever REALLY considered the option that we are presenting, I suspect not since you find it more likely that you don't exist, than that your lord doesn't exist

Ralphy, here I think, we are dealing with not how honest I appear to you or how much you think you want to appear to me, you and I both know that we are not talking about any game that one needs to play or set of steps that one need to carry out…. You and I are both talking about shaking our own beliefs, letting our selves apart from our own beliefs and investigating our own minds….. hehe….. no matter how much I brag here or how much you claim, what is more important here is how we feel really to our selves, that how much justice we have done…… and you know what Ralph…… let me tell you a secret……. That is exactly what LORD ALMIGHTY is gona ask you, me, everyone, on the day of judgement….. that whether did we do justice to our selves…..did we really satisfied our soul, our conscious in an unbiased acid test of our selves…… did you really left no stone unturned to search me….. cause if you have to end up in front of LORD ALMIGHTY, does this makes any difference to you that you spent all your life searching fro lhim…… you know what, if you can prove to LORD on the day of judgement that hey, I did this , I did that, and I came to conclusion that you were a spoke…. You might make it to Heaven, and I might end up in the Hell……

I suppose Eternity is a long long damn time……we can see Eternity if we see the past of everything, drag it before the time of big bang…even farther in the past…hey, we have eternity in one direction….why cant we have eternity on the other side….

Quote: (Originally Posted by RalphyS)

Look for the other half, search for it, do not assume you know what it is. As non-believers we do have to come to grips with the fact that we do not know everything and we keep on looking for that part through science. Believers on the other hand assume that the part that they don't know is God's work, but as we find out more and more of that part, the role of God diminishes more and more, because the questions become smaller and smaller.

Ralphy, here I would try to say few things in short, most welcome to again make fun of me latter. Do u think if to the people of the old times, a book based on science was given to them…..instead of HolyBooks that you challenge….do u think people would have been any more religious then they are now….. do u think people of that time had means and knowledge to explore that all, people have even worshiped the Sun and the Moon and whatnot….. even 50 years back, when a science fiction novel was released, people made fun of the author for describing gadgets and processes that are impossible, and yet now, we know that most of that stuff is in happening….. I think those old books of science would have been so forgotten by now… also, that wasn’t really the need of that time aswell…..people became religious for of those books…….ok, I am a Muslim, I know there is gona be no more Propeht Hood after our Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.), but to me, Modren Sceince is the prophet of new age….. cause people look forward now to science to answer their questions, unlike in the past, people used to wait for the next Prophet….. in my Holy Book many things were of such nature that if people of old times started a quarrel over that, it could have been a big problem but its only modern science now that has given me the explanation of those verses in my Holy book. To me, science is the modern day Propeht and it will evolve into one…… religions will have to take the challenge of science or they have to go……

it’s a matter of what direction you give to your powers….i guess you hang out with people who keep trying to tell or prove that religion is fake, on the other hand, I live in a society where religion is safe and is the dominant part of our lives…….. its here that we need to have to do justice with our selves…..