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uncertaindrumer 04-25-2005 01:27 PM

I'm not saying they are BAD. I'm just saying--and I don't think many people would disagree--they aren't an incredible band. They are a rather generic radio rock band, along the lines of the other bands I have mentioned. They just aren't unique.

Mulletman 04-25-2005 01:55 PM

All music is generic. Since when has any artist been inovative? The industry's view of innovation is taking two or more things that work, puting them together and praying it all goes well.

uncertaindrumer 04-25-2005 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulletman
All music is generic. Since when has any artist been inovative? The industry's view of innovation is taking two or more things that work, puting them together and praying it all goes well.


Saying all music is generic is ridiculous. Yes, THESE DAYS everything is generic and THESE DAYS music really... sucks. But not all "music" is generic. That is quite wrong.

JulieCitySlicker 04-25-2005 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer
I'm not saying they are BAD. I'm just saying--and I don't think many people would disagree--they aren't an incredible band. They are a rather generic radio rock band, along the lines of the other bands I have mentioned. They just aren't unique.

Ya well,that isd your opinion but I may have the same opinion for bands that you like as well.

uncertaindrumer 04-25-2005 08:09 PM

Geez, likes and dislikes in music are one thing--but uniqueness is another. I LOVE Alter Bridge, but I am not so crazy as to think they are extremely unique. I think they are MORE unique than %99 of the garbage today (Yes, I'm looking at YOU, Hoobastank!), but they are not super unique. I still adore them though, and there is nothing wrong with liking a band that isn't unique.

It IS a little preposterous to claim that a band like 3 Doors Down is unique, though. They just AREN'T.

titan9 04-25-2005 08:24 PM

Geez. I'm busy for a couple days(moving stuff for my sis) and I come back and find yet another argument between a Stapp fan(Nips) and a non-Stapp fan(Uncertain). I guess I shouldn't be surprised.:rolleyes:

I've stated my opinion of Stapp(and Creed and Alter Bridge) several times, but will say a few things here. I am an equal fan of Stapp, Creed and Alter Bridge. Creed was the band that got me into Rock music in the first place. Without them, I would probably still listen to that ridiculous Pop music, simply because I wouldn't know how good Rock music can be. Still, 99% of the Rock bands that are popular suck. Creed is, in my opinion, a part of that 1% that do not suck. I hate how people compare Creed to bands like Nickelback, Hoobastank, Puddle of Mudd etc.(I won't pick on 3 Doors Down, as I can stand them) The fact is, when Creed first started out(with MOP) a lot of critics respected and even liked Creed. Creed had a massive amount of success with MOP on just Rock radio. Four number one rock hits, if I remember correctly. Then came Human Clay, which was softer than MOP. Still had some awesome songs, though. Higher broke through and became a huge hit on Pop radio. And that's where it started to go bad, in terms of critics. People started hating on Creed, partly because of the fact that they were on Pop radio, constantly being played. Rock stations didn't like them anymore because it felt like they, in a way, sold-out. Wasn't Creed's fault, as they had no say about what songs got played on what stations. WAWO made even more people hate Creed. Even those who did like Creed at one point, turned on them because it was "un-popular" to like Creed. My brother-in-law bought Human Clay, then eventually turned against Creed. I believe it was because of that Pop radio airplay.

Weathered made Creed even more hated. The album was the softest of the three, and it seemed like Creed was only making music to make money. I blame Wind-Up for this, not the guys. I believe Wind-Up forced them into making an album suitable for Pop radio airplay. Hey, it worked, as it did get them two huge hits. But it did the band no good. The constant touring took its toll on the band and ultimately, in my opinion, led to the demise.

Despite it all, I still loved and respected Creed, the band. The music made a difference in my life and I have been greatly influenced by Mark's guitar playing(that was the main reason I took up guitar) and Scott's lyrics(I have been writing song lyrics for almost a year). When the break-up was announced, I was definitely bummed. But, being the positive thinking person that I now am, I thought of the positives. First, since the band members had been rumored to not get along with one another, now they would no longer have to deal with that. Now they'd have peace. Second, now we'd get twice the amount of good music. That was very exciting to me, and immediately I began to get excited about Stapp's solo project and the new band formed by Phillips and Tremonti. I didn't know much about it, but I knew that it was very promising. Soon I heard OYE for the first time, and, at first, didn't care for the vocalist. Yes, from June until September, I was not a Myles Kennedy fan. I missed Stapp's vocals. But I gave Myles another chance, and his vocal ability grew on me. Now I can say that I like him as much as I like Stapp. Myles just has incredible range. It's not like he's only had this kind of talent in Alter Bridge; that talent is evident in his work in the Mayfield Four. Not only is this guy an awesome singer, but he is also a very good lyricist(based off of his work in MF4) and a good guitarist. This guy is a very well rounded musician who can hold his own both as a guitarist and as a singer. Not too many singers nowadays can say that. Myles is, in my opinion, one of the most talented musicians in Rock today.

Stapp is, in my opinion, an awesome lyricist and pretty good singer. His voice fit Creed perfectly; if Myles were to sing a Creed song, it just would not fit. No one denies Scott's talent as a lyricist and as a singer. Some do, however, bash Stapp as a person. I prefer not to judge Stapp, so I stay out of those arguments. I don't defend him as a person, but will gladly defend him as a musician. Of course, I will do all of this in a respectful way. Nips, people apparently think you haven't voiced your opinion in a respectful. Bashing Myles is not the way to make friends here, to have people respect you. ESPECIALLY in the way that you have done so. It is one thing to say that you do not like Myles, but it is a totally different thing to bash Myles in the way that you have. Uncertain strongly dislikes Stapp, yet he doesn't constantly rip into him. I don't agree with Uncertain's assessment of Creed and Stapp, but I respect the way in which he has voiced his opinion. The point is, you have to be respectful in voicing your opinion. Otherwise, you'll see a lot of people who strongly disagree with you.

creedlvr 04-25-2005 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titan9
Uncertain strongly dislikes Stapp, yet he doesn't constantly rip into him. I don't agree with Uncertain's assessment of Creed and Stapp, but I respect the way in which he has voiced his opinion.

I agree with a lot of what you said ... but I disagree with this. I didn't find anything respectful in the way in which Uncertain expressed his "opinion." In fact, I don't think he understands that what he thinks is just an opinion and not a fact. I thought it was uncalled for to call Johnnynips an idiot because his "opinion" differed from that of his own. I'm just still trying to figure out why he (Uncertain) is here on a Creed site if he dislikes them so much. :confused:

Creed23 04-26-2005 02:23 PM

Ill vouche for that

titan9 04-26-2005 02:29 PM

Well, creedlvr, I just find Uncertain to be more respectful when he voices his opinion. I guess it's all up to the person, how they perceive one's opinion. I perceive Uncertain's opinion of Stapp to be more respectful than Nips opinion of Kennedy. Uncertain is, despite the anti-Stapp comments, a good guy. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do know he's not here simply to cause fights. He is here to voice his opinion. As for why he's at a Creed site, well, he does really like MOP and some other Creed songs. And he is a big fan of Alter Bridge, which is also a part of this site. All Creed fans are Creed fans are different in how much they like the band; there's varying levels of Creed fans. Some like everything the band put out; some like most of it; some only like some of it. Uncertain, in my opinion, is one of those people who only like some of it. But he is still, in a way, a Creed fan, despite what he may say about their music at times. He just didn't like the way Creed went in their last two albums, but really liked what they put out with that first album.

uncertaindrumer 04-26-2005 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creedlvr
I agree with a lot of what you said ... but I disagree with this. I didn't find anything respectful in the way in which Uncertain expressed his "opinion." In fact, I don't think he understands that what he thinks is just an opinion and not a fact. I thought it was uncalled for to call Johnnynips an idiot because his "opinion" differed from that of his own. I'm just still trying to figure out why he (Uncertain) is here on a Creed site if he dislikes them so much. :confused:


Without trying to sound childish... "he started it".

I would never just out of the blue start attacking Stapp and anyone on here knows that. I never start a discussion about Stapp and I try to keep away from bashing him. I certainly don't have a good opinion of him, but I don't constantly voice it.

Johhnynips jsut completely ripped Myles Kennedy to shreds because... Oh my goodness, he doesn't like tenors. That is absurd. That is like me ripping an opera singer because I don't like opera. THAT IS ABSURD. If you don't see how his "opinions" and the way he "voiced them" are disrespectful and often just wrong (Myles has a VERY TECHINCALLY PROFICIENT VOICE, you CANNOT DENY THAT FACT), then I don't really care to argue with you. Obviously you are so deeply stuck inside your view of things that you will hear no other side of it.

I ALWAYS try to be respectful when speaking of Stappp, who many on here consider a GREAT singer. I DON'T consider him a great singer but I also don't make posts SIMPLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF BASHING HIM. My posts in response to Johhnynips were in defense of Myles Kennedy, and in that respect it was much easier to get my point across (that Johhnynips doesn't know what he is talking about) by also pointing out where he was wrong about Stapp. (note, I never said he had a bad voice or that his lyrics sucked. I said he did not have a particularly UNIQUE voice and that I PERSONALLY did not like his lyrics but that is my opinion).

If you can't see why my posts were more inline than his, I don't care. If you are that blind, I don't give a crap what you think of me. I have been a member of this board for over six months but have lurked for a LONG LONG LONG time and I don't need you to tell me I'm being disrespectful or that my facts are opinions, or that I don't like Creed enough to be on a Creed website.

If Johhnynips had just said he preffered Myles to Scott, or that he though Myles did not have Scott's inherant emotion and charm, that's FINE. It is a little uncalled for (there is no need to bring Myles into this discussion, really), but it is fine. To say he sucks, has a bad voice, and that no one wants to listen to him is not an opinion. IT'S WRONG. As a singer, by all known criteria for voice, he has AMAZING power and range, a good voice at the least, and obviously PLENTY of people like him.

And as for my Creed likes and dislikes: I look at Creed as a casualty of the business. MOP rocked HARD. That album was an album for the decade, and definitely one of the better albums I have heard in modern rock. Then, to keep up with demands (of the record company, the masses, and financially, as well) they went soft and became a radio band. I LOVED MOP and thought Creed had HUGE potential. But instead of going down the more difficult road towards musical immortality, they decided to trade credibility for huge radio success and major money. This was not ALL their decision and I doubt they ever sat down and said "we want the money". Heck, it probably had VERY little to do with them, actually. But it still happened. Just because its someone else's fault that a band goes down the tube doesn't mean they didn't go down the tube. I love MOP, think Tremo rocks completely, but just don't think Creed went the right direction.

THAT is a friggin opinion right there, and you are certainly free to disagree with it in a respectful manner. But POINTLESSLY bashing a singer who OBVIOUSLY has some major pipes and who is OBVIOUSLY loved by quite a few on this board with ABSOLUTELY NO DISCRETION and NO attempt at trying to be kind about it is absurd.

If you don't understand that, then you are either: a) way too much of a Stapp fan to even think its possible to respectfully dislike him b) way to much of a Myles hater to think its possible to go overboard bashing him c) someone who just is ignorant of how an argument should be executed.

One last thing. "Idiot" is not a dirty word. I didn't come out spewing f-bombs at Johhnynips, I used an extremely mild insult which is barely even an insult anymore, I call my friends idiots non-stop, and vice versa. But if you disagree with that, I'm sorry, I take it back. Johhnynips is not an "idiot", he is just a person with extremely skewed views of both what makes a good singer, what makes an opinion and what makes a fact, and what is respectful and what is not.

Once again, Titan9, thanks for the support. Like I said, it was a rant, it was meant to be a rant, and I am glad I did not offend you. Like I have said before, Stapp is not an inferior musician, I just PERSONALLY don't like him. But as has been my whole point, that doesn't mean I go onto a message board and go COMPLETELY off-topic to incessantly bash him to death.

Ana4Stapp 04-26-2005 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creedlvr
I agree with a lot of what you said ... but I disagree with this. I didn't find anything respectful in the way in which Uncertain expressed his "opinion." In fact, I don't think he understands that what he thinks is just an opinion and not a fact. I thought it was uncalled for to call Johnnynips an idiot because his "opinion" differed from that of his own. I'm just still trying to figure out why he (Uncertain) is here on a Creed site if he dislikes them so much. :confused:


Just to clarify things:
i really disagree with your opinion trying became uncertain "the bad guy on Creedfeed". He just expressed his opinion, and yeah, Johnnynips started it...when he said Myles is a crap singer...just to use one of his words...

... Everyone has the right to think Myles is a bad singer and express it on boards. It's an opinion...but you don't need to be disrespectful with all AB's fans, and as a result provoking a boring discussion with them. Or Jhonnypips could just throw up his "impressions" about Myles without an angry answer by his fans? Jhonnypipis asked for this...and if the uncertain's answer was a little rude, like someone said, this is why Jhonnypips deserved it... Sorry, but this is the true.

By the way, I can REALLY say Uncertain is a very good guy and even though I'm a Stapp fan and he prefers Myles. Even though sometimes we disagree he is always respectful in his posts and PM's we've sent to each other. :cool:
And why? Because when he expresses his opinion about Stapp he uses a very good argument and show respect, not joking or laughing at me or any Stapp/Creed fans...

And if he liked some Creed stuff ( MOP), now he prefers AB. I'ts easy to understand.
He has the right to.I'm sure he's not the only one here...

So what's the difference? I's just because uncertain is honest when expresses his opinions and suport his point of view?

Sorry, but this is very different from : "he's bashing Creed"... ;)

creedlvr 04-27-2005 09:49 AM

Oh my God ... my head hurts.

I thought perhaps I misjudged Uncertain's tone ... so to be fair, I went back and reread both Uncertain's and JNips posts. I'm sorry but I still feel the same way. I didn't find JNips ORIGINAL post to be disrespectful.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnynips
Just a quick response...I love creed and respect Tremonti totally, but you need to give it up, One day remains was good but not one song on that CD could touch any creed song, creed was a band that blew everyone else out of the water with their emotional yet rock out songs....Myles kennedy ruins the whole experience of one day remains with his rick springfield imitation sound..lol long live Stapp and the band the was one of the greats....

He clearly implied he is not a Myles fan ... but I really didn't think he was disrespectful. I did, however, find Uncertain to be disrespectful. I was going to quote his whole post, but considering how LONG it is, I decided just to point out a few things.
Here is how he started:
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer
You. Are. The. Biggest. Friggin. Idiot. Ever.

First, modern rock SUCKS. [text deleted]
Mark was not trying to APPEAL to a bunch of whiny no-nothing's like you when he picked Myles, he wanted the BEST SINGER POSSIBLE, and he GOT him. Your ignorance on issues of voice is so overbearing its unbelievable.

Creed will not get back togther because Mark doesn't want to "move" the masses of musically ignorant dopes like yourself. He wants to rock out, and without Stapp being the piece of junk that he is, Mark can finally do that.

Shut your mouth because you obviously know NOTHING about music. [text deleted]

Now I'm sorry, but I found that to be offensive. Granted that JNips came back with a response that a lot of Myles fans WOULD find offensive ... but I just didn't agree that it started that way.

I couldn't care less how other people feel about Scott or Myles ... good or bad. That is their "opinion" and they are entitled to it. And yes ... they are opinions.
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer
[text deleted]Alter Bridge has better drums, better guitar, better bass, MUCH better vocals, and better lyrics, although the lyrics are subjective. Indeed, putting Creed on the same plateau as AB would be downright sickening, as Creed belongs nowhere NEAR the level of Alter Bridge.

This is an opinion. Some would agree with this and some would not. It just depends on each person's likes and dislikes.

I think that Uncertain is just WAY TOO DEFENSIVE over Myles. His passion for him won't allow anyone else to disagree with him.

That's all.

creedlvr 04-27-2005 09:54 AM

Ana - Not for nothin' but this was your response to Uncertain's original post. Obviously, you took it the same way I did.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp
I really don't understand why you are here! Stop to bashing CREED and specially SCOTT STAPP. If you don't like Creed and prefer AB, okay, but there's a lot of people here that love Creed. No one here is bashing Alter Bridge, so stop to bashing Creed/Stapp. This is a comunity of CREED fans. Don't you know this? Creed 's 4EVER!!!
We are one,
We are strong,
the more you hold us down
the more we press on
...


uncertaindrumer 04-27-2005 10:29 AM

Quote:

Better quality product?, where do you get that from. I saw Bridge on Leno and Kennedy couldn't even sing a song without his voice breaking up. I am sorry if your into 80's bands kennedy would be the perfect lead singer, but thia is the year 2005, noone wants to hear a guy who has a horrible voice, try to fill in for one of the best lead singers of all time..Personally you think mark would have asked david draman of disturbed to sing on his album, at least it would have appealed to a lot more people.Honestly myles kennedy should still be singing for steel dragon in Rockstar, at least his voice fit for 70's and 80's rock. The thing that made creed such a success was that people could relate to their lyrics and music which moved so many millions of fans. I believe that it will only be a matter of time before mark realizes that he needs to reunite


This was the post I was mainly replying to. Not the one you quoted. And the first post I had I actually fprgot about it was so long ago. It had nothing to do with the later discussions. And obviously, however Ana "took" it has changed.

After re-reading my post I still don't think anything I said was too rude. He compeltely tore apart a guy with no reason to at all, and so I got a little mad. I even SAID it was a rant and was not intended to insult, but that I was simply greatly impassioned due to the ridiculous nature of his post.

But whatever. Somehow I doubt you would have found my post offensive if I had been bashing Myles like he did.

uncertaindrumer 04-27-2005 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnynips
I meant the typical 80's singer with the ooohs ahhhhs, maybe if he didn't do those gay little things he wouldn't be half bad, but lets be serious the song writing ability isn't there..furthermore if you really listen to the lyrics most of the songs are the band taking shots at a certain former lead singer. I like alter bridge, you however cannot put them on the same plateau as creed, as this would be insane...plus they sold a total of 500,000 records as where creed sold about 45,000,000. Enought said , for the time being until a reunion happens i am happy to listen to the awesome guitar playing that I have always enjoyed.


Also I was replying to this post quite a bit. "gay little things" that apparently many on here love an enjoy? I am sorry but I don't thinkyou need to phrase it that way, and it got me quite mad. So maybe I went a little overboard--people do. But what I was saying was in response to him. I would never have just brought the subject out of thin air. To make an example.

Creed sucked. Not a single on of their songs can touch AB's. I mean, Stapp is just the worst singer the planet has ever seen. No one wants to hear a guy spew all of his moral conundrums and Christian sayings at you while he is on drugs. He has the most boring, dull, common, annoying voice in the world. Maybe if he took out those stupid growls on the end of songs (i.e. freedom fighter) people would like him more. And besides, Alter Bridge obviously has mroe credibility than Creed because Creed sold a gazillion albums to a bunch of thirteen year old girls. You can't compare the two.

Would you find THAT respectful?


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