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-   -   Take a step back... again (http://www.creedfeed.com/community/showthread.php?t=5559)

velocityidp 01-16-2004 07:26 PM

Take a step back... again
 
[I'd appreciate it if this message wasn't censored again. None of this is rumor, it's just my analysis of events. Take it, leave it, or respond]

OK, yeah I know this is all speculation, but I've gleamed some interesting "psuedo-facts" from what's happened so far...

Take a step back and look at the present facts we do know at this point...

OK, for those of you people that don't know, the original members of Creed were Scott Stapp, Mark Tremonti, Scott Philips and Brian Marshal. Brian resigned from or was kicked out of Creed during the Human Clay tour for some as-of-yet unknown reason. Some claim it had to do with some somewhat questionable comments Brian made about Vedder & Peal Jam, and others say it just had to do with "artistic differences." A studio bassist, Brett Hestla, filled in for Brian during the Weathered tour.

To analyze...

Now, we know that Mark and Flip are starting a new band without Scott Stapp. That doesn't necessaily tell us much. However, the fact that Brian Marshall is getting together with the band has got to say something... it's not just a coincidence. If Brian was kicked out because of his PJ comments (i.e. booted for being a "loose cannon," then why would Mark and Flip welcome him into a new band? If Brian was kicked out because of "artistic differences," then, again, why would he be welcomed back? Furthermore, why would *Brian* want to join a band with members that supposedly gave him the boot? Think about it logically.

The absence of Stapp from all this is significant. There must have been some kind of friction between these two guys -- it's the only logical explaination I can think of for 1) Mark and Flip allowing Brian to join the new band and 2) for Brian deciding to essentially re-join "Stappless Creed".

The more I think about it, the more I see how a rift could have been forming between Stapp and the other band members. To take things one step further, I'd argue that Stapp's desire to unilaterally control the direction of the band could have led to the boot/resignation as well as the de-facto breakup. Ever watch video interviews with Creed when Stapp, Mark and Flip are there? Stapp would always dominate the conversation. Even when the others spoke out, Stapp would always rein them in, taking back control of the conversation. Mark always looks miserable in those interviews, often with arms folded and looking away. I think many of you know what I'm talking about. You can sometimes tell quite a deal from people's body language.

Anyway, from those two points -- the fact that Brian is joining a "Stappless Creed" and the perceived "controling" manner of Stapp -- leads me to believe a lot of this has to do with Stapp and the direction he was taking the band into.

Again, don't get all your collective panties in a bundle! That's my analysis of the situation. If you don't like my analysis, so be it. I'm not pretending to know the true facts... but none of us ever will, so it's interesting to present some facts and try to make some sense out of them.

Bridge of Clay 01-16-2004 08:36 PM

yeah... Mark doesn't like to be on the spotlight, being interviewed and speaking... but everytime he wanted to say something, he would interupt Stapp to say his thoughts. And everytime Stapp did agree... believe it or not, Mark is shy...

Now, how much recognition does drummers get? we never hear from them... how many Flip sites are on net? that I'm aware, just Fliponline.

The vocalist is the frontman, dude. Everyband is interviewed, it's always the singer speaking at least 80% of the time.

velocityidp 01-16-2004 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremonti_Fed
yeah... Mark doesn't like to be on the spotlight, being interviewed and speaking... but everytime he wanted to say something, he would interupt Stapp to say his thoughts. And everytime Stapp did agree... believe it or not, Mark is shy...

Now, how much recognition does drummers get? we never hear from them... how many Flip sites are on net? that I'm aware, just Fliponline.

The vocalist is the frontman, dude. Everyband is interviewed, it's always the singer speaking at least 80% of the time.


Could be, but I never got that impression. But beyond that, one has to admit there's something a little strange about Brian joining/being invited to the new "Stappless Creed" band.

Bridge of Clay 01-16-2004 09:35 PM

There's nothing strange. At first I thought that, I admit.

But when Brian left the band, the climate wasn't good. Although Brian is, according to Mark, the best bassist he knows to play with, their relationship was downhill.

Maybe what hurt Brian wasn't the fact he was kicked out by Stapp, by them or due the fact Mark/Flip didn't stand for him at that time... who knows? we don't know the truth... maybe someday we will... but at Jan 16th, 11:30 pm, Brasilia Time, we don't know.

When people first posted at the pit that Brian would join Mark and Flip, his relatives couldn't believe and said it wasn't possible. Later, it was posted that this person never thought Brian could be so forgiving. Brian loves to play with Mark as well.

What went wrong in the past, they settled it. With Stapp, it maybe a bit harder (not because of Stapp, but because of what went wrong), but hopefully they can make peace.

we can't predict things. Who, among us, would say creed was going to break up? we'd call the person a freak or a troll...and laugh at it.

Some people even speculated that after almost a year, Mark was still pissed at Stapp due Chicago... but they put a unique concert a couple days after Chicago...

"Let it roll, baby, roll!"

creedsister 01-16-2004 11:40 PM

:bump: :bump: :bump:

Steve 01-17-2004 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocityidp
[I'd appreciate it if this message wasn't censored again. None of this is rumor, it's just my analysis of events. Take it, leave it, or respond]

OK, yeah I know this is all speculation, but I've gleamed some interesting "psuedo-facts" from what's happened so far...


Just a note: you contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. Your own speculation is in fact rumor since speculation is based upon non-factual points.

velocityidp 01-17-2004 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve
Just a note: you contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. Your own speculation is in fact rumor since speculation is based upon non-factual points.


Could be. But my speculation is based upon fairly well-known facts (i.e. the "breakup" and that Brian has joined the new band). I'm trying to logically piece together why those facts happened. I'm not claiming my speculation is true, so I'm not really spreading rumors. Rumors are "unverified information received from another." I'm not repeating any unverified information. I'm trying to explain known facts as I see it, not introduce false ones.

It's like the difference between saying "I think Michael Jackson molested those children because he has the psyche of a child" and "Micheal Jackson beat those children with a wodden stick." One is an opinion, and the other is baseless, unverified rumor.

Am I splitting hairs? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Like I said, it's my opinion -- my interpretation. It's not necessarily true, and it's not necessarily false. Take it or leave it.

hayley 01-17-2004 01:50 AM

I think I'll leave it thanks

hayley 01-17-2004 01:51 AM

I don't know, you don't know, we all don't know, so let's just shut the hell up

velocityidp 01-17-2004 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicted2stapp
I don't know, you don't know, we all don't know, so let's just shut the hell up


It's called a message board. Duh. And by the way don't tell me you don't have your own opinions about what happened and why. I'm just writting mine down. So no, I'm not going to shut up... :rolleyes:

hayley 01-17-2004 03:39 AM

Yeah no shit it's called a message board. Duh. Of course I have my own opinions about this, I have already shared them.

Sorry I know you are taking your turn in this, I apologise, but it's just all this talk, it's what has caused the arguments, the tension, the hurting on this board. The sooner this is over the better, the sooner something is out from the band the happier I will be, look I apologise again, this has just really got to me today for some reason.

shiver 01-17-2004 03:41 AM

I think its a very good way to look at things. I personally think that Brian was a very good bass player, and the band sorely missed him when he left. I have also grown tired of Stapp, and think it would be very cool to see Mark, Brian, and Flip together again. Right now for all I care, Stapp could fall of the face of the earth and the only thing that would remind me of him is a very good MOP cd. But the one thing we do know is that something went wrong, and somebody left the band. It's just that the wrong somebody left the band. But I digress...

Jooji_2 01-17-2004 12:02 PM

No Thanks!
 
Speculate all you want......I pass on this one.

creedsister 01-17-2004 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicted2stapp
I don't know, you don't know, we all don't know, so let's just shut the hell up

oh haley girl you took the words right out of my mouth THANk YOU :D :D

creedsister 01-17-2004 01:58 PM

:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:
Quote:

Originally Posted by velocityidp
It's called a message board. Duh. And by the way don't tell me you don't have your own opinions about what happened and why. I'm just writting mine down. So no, I'm not going to shut up... :rolleyes:



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