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-   -   God's not guilty (http://www.creedfeed.com/community/showthread.php?t=11203)

metalchris25 08-10-2006 12:52 AM

God's not guilty
 
GODS NOT GUILTY

I want to share one of the most important things God has ever done in my life. It seems people automatically believe everything that happens to them is from God, that He controls everything. The reason for this is that by definition God is supreme and all-powerful, and they just assume He controls everything that happens in our lives. Even unbelievers believe it. There are many Christians who promote this doctrine, and it has become ingrained in their lives. I believe what Scripture teaches is contrary to this, and its very important that you learn this lesson. James 1:13-17 says, Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

These verses make it very clear that God is the author of the good things. Jesus said in John 10:10, The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. If its good, its God; if its bad, its the devil. Thats very simple theology. The reason this is so critical is because James 4:7 says, Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. This says we have to submit, or yield control, to God and resist the devil. The word resist means to actively fight against.

When people believe everything that happens in life is totally from Godfor example, sickness, failure in business, losing a job, rebellious children, or divorcethat puts them in the position of being passive. If they really believe God is the author of a situation and is using it to punish them or change them, they would be fighting against Him if they resist. Yet, James 4:7 says to resist the devil and he will flee from you. You have to submit yourself to God. This shows that certain things are of God and certain things are of the devil. There is a force of evil in this world, and not everything that happens in your life comes from God. If you dont understand that, you will end up submitting to the devil, and actually empowering Satan. I want to bring out a passage in Romans because it is misused so often. Ive actually been to funerals where people dont know anything about God, dont go to church, and know hardly any Scripture, but they know this one. Romans 8:28 says, And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. This has been interpreted to say that whatever happens in your life, God does it and works it together for good in some way.
I actually was at a funeral for a young boy and girl who had been mixing alcohol and drugs, got into a car, drove too fast on a slick road, slid around a corner, hit a telephone pole, and were both killed. The preacher quoted this Scripture, We know all things work together for good, and said God must have a purpose in doing this. God did not kill those teenagers, and in a sense you cant even say the devil did it. They did it. Im sure the devil enticed them to rebel against the standards their parents and others had taught them, but ultimately it was their choice. Theyre the ones who did the dope and alcohol; theyre the ones that hit the telephone pole. That was a natural thing, and God wasnt the source of it.

What does it mean when it says we know that all things work together for good? First of all, it didnt say we know all things come from God and work together for good. It says all things work together for good, but puts qualifications on it: . . . to them that love God. This Scripture doesnt work for a person who doesnt love God. That is so obvious that it should go without saying, but it is amazing how people apply it toward instances like these young people who were doing drugs and alcohol and were in total rebellion against God and His principles, and say God did it. This says it only works together for good to those who love God, and to those that are the called according to his purpose.

In 1 John 3:8 it says, For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. God manifested himself to destroy Satans work. Thats His purpose, and it will only work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose, that is, those who are walking in this calling, are resisting the devil, and are out to destroy his works. Those who are resisting the devil and living for God can say that regardless of what the devil does in their lives, God can turn it around and use it for good.

In the area of healing, if someone becomes ill with an incurable disease, thats not God. He didnt do that to them. But if they truly love Him and resist the devil and his works (which include sickness), and if they fight against it and release their faith, then you can say that even this sickness is going to work together for good. God didnt cause it, God didnt ordain it, but it can work together for good when you love God and are the called according to His purpose.

It is imperative that you understand this, because Scripture says Satan loves to come as an angel of light. He loves to disguise himself. He doesnt come at you with a pitchfork, horns, and a red union suit. Instead, hell disguise himself and try to make you think hes God. If you really believe God is the author of the problems in your life, youll submit to them because you dont want to resist God. If you really believe God is the author of the sickness in your life, it is inconsistent to take medicine, to go to a doctor and have them operate, or to seek some type of treatment. If you really believe God put sickness on you to teach you something, the logical thing to do is submit to it, let it run its course, and learn the full lesson you are supposed to learn.

Even in the natural people say, No, I wouldnt do that. Youre supposed fight against it, not just lie down and take it, and I agree. Im saying the same thing in the spiritual realm, as well as the physical realm, that we need to start discerning that God does not control everything in our lives. There is an enemy that comes to kill, steal, and destroy, but Jesus has come to give us life. We have to choose life and willfully recognize that Gods not guilty of everything that comes into our lives.

If God was a physical human being who did the things He is accused of, such as putting cancer, deformities, depression, sorrow, and grief on people, I guarantee there isnt a government on earth that wouldnt arrest, imprison, or try to stop Him. Yet we think God, who is much more merciful than any person weve met or imagined in our whole life, is going around striking people and doing this. There are some things that are demonic attacks and some that are natural, but the disasters around us are not God ordained. The insurance companies write in policies, acts of God, such as earthquakes and pestilence. No, God is not the author of all these things.

Someone might say, But wait a minute, isnt God sovereign? The word sovereign literally means independent. For instance, the United States became a sovereign nationbecame independent of Great Britainand we set our own rules and have our own government. That doesnt mean were a lawless people. Our laws govern our lifestyle, so we are not lawlesswe are sovereign, we are independent. In that sense God is certainly independent. Nobody tells Him what to do. People sometimes misuse the word sovereign to mean that you never know what God is going to do, that He cant be put in a box or contained. Certainly Hes not going to fit in our boxour little doctrines and theologies. God has bound Himself by His Word. Psalm 138:2 says, for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. He will never violate His word. Heaven and earth are established on the integrity of Gods word, and if He ever violated His Word, they would self-destruct. God can be predicted to do exactly what His word says, so in that sense you cant say its a sovereign act of God, that He just moved independent of everybody else.

God has established laws, and He doesnt control everything in our lives. He has given us a wide range of choices. Most of the time it is us making the wrong choices, or somebody else who has a free will and causes us grief through their sovereignty. Other times its the devil who comes against us, but I want you to know today that Gods not guilty. Hes not the author of bad things in your life. Going back to the first verse we used in James 1:17, it says, Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights.

Dont submit yourself to something God doesnt want in your life, thinking, Well, God must control everything, because Hes God. No, God created this earth and set down laws, and He gives you and me the choices to make. He said in Deuteronomy 30:19, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. God gave you the choice, and I pray that today you will choose life.


by Andrew Wommack
www.awmi.net

Lunar Shadow 08-15-2006 10:57 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
I agree God is not guilty.... Because God is not there....so Something that is not there can not be guilty. But the way you get to your conclusion I feel is a little off but I don't really feel like geting in a Theology discussion right now but if you want to know my thoughts on I will respond.

metalchris25 08-15-2006 02:11 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
You know, for someone that doesn't believe in God, you sure have a lot to say about him. I put this here for those of us that do believe, hence its in the religion forum. You have no religion, so unless you are seeking God, you have no reason to come here except to try and convince me that I am wrong, a feat that you will not accomplish. So, I respectfully decline discussing it with you. Nothing personal, I just feel that I have nothing to gain from it, as from past conversations you are not likely to change your mind about God.

StappsSaviour 08-15-2006 10:51 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
i did not get to read all of what it is that u wrote but right in the middle of it i had a thought...

if God was not to blame y did he create our world???
y did He create things against us insted of for us???

yea there is supposed to be a Heaven after death if we are true believers of God and recognise our sins but how are we supposed to even know if that is tru or not?

btw please do not get angry with me...
i am new to this and want to know your views...

metalchris25 08-15-2006 11:07 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StappsSaviour
i did not get to read all of what it is that u wrote but right in the middle of it i had a thought...

if God was not to blame y did he create our world???
y did He create things against us insted of for us???

yea there is supposed to be a Heaven after death if we are true believers of God and recognise our sins but how are we supposed to even know if that is tru or not?

btw please do not get angry with me...
i am new to this and want to know your views...


I wouldn't get angry with someone seeking knowledge. Thats why we are all here, is to learn.
God did not create things against us, those things are of an evil force, and therefore not from God. He created all things to work FOR us, we messed all that up. If you are looking for a concrete answer to having proof of God's existence, that is something you have to find on your own. I see it everywhere I look. That is why it is important to have a relationship with Him. He will show you proof, through the things all around you if you let Him. Just remember that it is all in His time, not yours, for the Bible says that a thousand years is like a day, and a day like a thousand years to God. He will speak to you, you just have to learn how to listen. I have recently gotten into a "Religion kills, Jesus Saves" state of mind. So much is taught in the wrong way and that wrong info has seeped into the viens of what we call religion. I no longer believe in religion, I believe in a relationship. Man took God's word and turned it into a religion when His word is just a manual to help us grow closer to Him by faith, to have a relationship with Him.

RalphyS 08-16-2006 05:07 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metalchris25
God did not create things against us, those things are of an evil force, and therefore not from God. He created all things to work FOR us, we messed all that up.


So who created this evil force? I always understood that only God was eternal and in the beginning there was only God, so if that evil force didn't create itself and how could it do that, it has to be created (maybe as a side-effect) by God?

Some say there can be no good without evil, but God wants us all to be good, so I don't get it. Than there is the matter of free will, but if God is omnipotent, omniscient, he does know now whether an unborn child will make the wrong choice in the future, for which it will eventually spend an eternity in hell. To let the child be born than would that not constitute the biggest evil.

Lunar Shadow 08-16-2006 05:21 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
ahhh but if god does transend time then free will is a problem because he already knows what we are going to choose because it is already predestined therefore there is no such ting as free will just the illusion.

The mental gymnastics to justify a god who is all knowing, loving, and powerful that transends time is impossible... either that or the god that christians believe in is evil I would go more that he doesn't exist because the kind of god that doctrine describes is impossible.


but I must remind you that "Yeaweh" (the god of the bible) himself said "I am the lord your god I created the day and the night the good and the evil all things are from me" now he said this not once but at least 2 times in the OT.

so if god is resposible for evil then this raises some problems with him being an all loving god because some one who is loving would not will evil upon the thing or person what or whom they love. because that is not a loving act. that is an act to enstill fear and love from fear is not love at all.

metalchris25 08-17-2006 01:14 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphyS
So who created this evil force? I always understood that only God was eternal and in the beginning there was only God, so if that evil force didn't create itself and how could it do that, it has to be created (maybe as a side-effect) by God?

Some say there can be no good without evil, but God wants us all to be good, so I don't get it. Than there is the matter of free will, but if God is omnipotent, omniscient, he does know now whether an unborn child will make the wrong choice in the future, for which it will eventually spend an eternity in hell. To let the child be born than would that not constitute the biggest evil.


You took what I said out of context. If you go back and read all of it, I said that God created all things to work for us, I was wrong in that statement. He created all things to work for him. God did not create the evil force, he created the Angel that would become that force.
Again, I have already aswered your question about free will. The whole thousand years thing. To God there is no time. Only existence.brb

RalphyS 08-17-2006 05:38 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Yeah right, so basically you're saying "God works in mysterious ways".

I also have a problem with that, why doesn't he work simple and clearly and obviously, it would clarify a lot, attract much more believers, cause a lot less confusion (denominations). If God created us all in his image, why does he talk to us in so many different forms or are our different cultures the reason why we all created our gods in our image?

metalchris25 08-17-2006 06:37 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
I don't know. Why doesn't a nuclear bomb? Because there are some things that not everyone should know.

RalphyS 08-17-2006 08:08 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
"I don't know", an answer that I can respect.

All too often believers claim to know God and what God would want or they judge because they 'know' God would disapprove, but if you ask them sensible questions about their beliefs, these mysterious ways often arise, than again I ask myself how can they know what God wants, if God is so mysterious?

"Because there are some things that not everyone should know"", maybe not, but don't let that stand in the way of your search of knowledge. Asking the right question is often more important than getting the right answer.

bilal 08-17-2006 07:45 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow
I agree God is not guilty.... Because God is not there....so Something that is not there can not be guilty. But the way you get to your conclusion I feel is a little off but I don't really feel like geting in a Theology discussion right now but if you want to know my thoughts on I will respond.


your absolutely right....God is not there...... if you seek something which is not there...you will not find it at alll.....things dont work that way...... so... you dont realy have to search for God.....for me ..if any one who is seeking for God is like seeking the trackless path of the birds........religion is based on faith....and you nor anyone can say that faith is anyless force or experience that is just created rather than explored.....faith to me is like the invisible path followed by the birds .......it is there , trackless and totally invisible...but it guides you to your destiny...... and is so powerful that nothing can convince its follower that there is not track for his journey...which infact only the believer can see........i am sure that with your experince with the other people who have faith in any religion....you will agree that faith is more than mere feeling, for a believer, it has a presence of its own........

bilal 08-17-2006 08:06 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphyS
So who created this evil force? I always understood that only God was eternal and in the beginning there was only God, so if that evil force didn't create itself and how could it do that, it has to be created (maybe as a side-effect) by God?

Some say there can be no good without evil, but God wants us all to be good, so I don't get it. Than there is the matter of free will, but if God is omnipotent, omniscient, he does know now whether an unborn child will make the wrong choice in the future, for which it will eventually spend an eternity in hell. To let the child be born than would that not constitute the biggest evil.



have you ever treid to find the answeres to your questions from God?? .....do u think God has left these question on us to seek answeres by ourselves? .... provided that we have only few years to spend here and those few years, considering the hectic lives of today, dont feel to be sufficient to explore the anwers to all our questions......

living with a doubt is the worst form of life..... as we know that if someone is not acknowledging that he has depression.....cannot actually start to cure it..... so i am sure every one should have an opinin about religion too....if you say there is not God...well and good....if you say there is...then be doubtless about it......

in this post of yours, you have specifically asked about evil....where it came from?....how it works?... i am no expert in religion but i will say few things based on my understandings....and these things i say, are free of any religion, as Chris said that its the relationship with God and not the religion that is important...i respect that.......

Life on earth, since it begain, and comparing it with the eternity of God, is no comparsion at all...but we have to limit our exploration of evil from the time we were created..... when God first created man....... the angles questioned God as to why HE has created a thing that will surely cause trouble, will fight and kill, and is prone to injustice and crime....... cause considering angles, they are created without sin,,,,and they cannot disobey any instructions of God........God told em that HE KNOWS WHAT THEY KNOWS NOT...... so man came into existance with all the defects of becoming a crimnal and drifting away from the right path....... SATAN....was also in the gathering of Angles, thou satan is not an angel...its an spirit....that is created by fire....... and when all present there were asked to bow down before ADAM. this one satan did not followed God commands saying ADAM was inferior.....

i wont go on with the story.... i am sure you have heard it all before....but you can see that SAtan, being in the presence of GOD, also disobeyed him...... actauly seeing the presence of God, he disobeyed..... the life on earth to me....is the anwer to the questions of Angles......and the reply of God, that HE KNOWS WHAT THEY DONT, and thats what we see in our lives too...... we have to act upon certain rules..... many things tempts us, makes us want to commit wrong....but thats where the power of faith comes in and man do restrain from commiting crime, pleasing his temptations, and that is something that pleases God, HE could have created more angles,,, but human being is fighting to stay a believer....and that is something that justifies the presence of EVIL....to separte good from bad....

Rocketqueen 08-26-2006 01:01 AM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metalchris25
You know, for someone that doesn't believe in God, you sure have a lot to say about him. I put this here for those of us that do believe, hence its in the religion forum. You have no religion, so unless you are seeking God, you have no reason to come here except to try and convince me that I am wrong, a feat that you will not accomplish. So, I respectfully decline discussing it with you. Nothing personal, I just feel that I have nothing to gain from it, as from past conversations you are not likely to change your mind about God.

I Just Posted Underneath your LONG POST i feel like morone and i had to delite all my rambling it was good to Well Lunar keeps ya thinking :) Hes loving touch has brought us closer to God i like his objectons i,ve learned a lot from lunar he cant help it if the good lord blessed him with common sence and stabiltiy and common scence should have told me ya dont post under a post that long :rolleyes:

JulieCitySlicker 09-11-2006 09:09 PM

Re: God's not guilty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Shadow
I agree God is not guilty.... Because God is not there....so Something that is not there can not be guilty. But the way you get to your conclusion I feel is a little off but I don't really feel like geting in a Theology discussion right now but if you want to know my thoughts on I will respond.



....and what makes you think that God's not there? I'm sure someday you'll get over your "mad at God stage? and become more aware that He infact does exhist.


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