rok n roll hall of fame
 

is creed in the rock n roll hall of fame? if not, wat are the qualifications of a band to get in to it?

That should be at the Creed forum...thats AB related...Lets learn to read guys please :rolleyes:

i'm thinking not... i think the qualifications include being a superior band... they were together a mere 10 years (which isn't too bad i guess), they released only 3 original LP recordings over a period of about 5 or 6 years... sure all the albums are at least 5x Platinum (HC, of course, being the only one w/ a Diamond rating, 10x Platinum or more).... but i don't think, at this point in time, that they're HoF material. right now, they're just one of hundreds of other bands essentially following in the footsteps of the likes of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc.... I suppose we'll see in 5 or 10 years (or even more) what bands from this particular era of post-grunge and alternative/nu-metal get in

I assume they will make it one day, as you can't ignore their contributions to rock. Whether some like to admit it or not, Creed got a lot of people back into rock. They sold a ton of albums, and when you consider that they did this in the Napster era, I think it makes it that much more impressive. Others are in their for less. Look at Buffalo Springfield. Granted, the band was made up by some legendary performers, but they only had one major hit song, and they didn't become legends until they broke out on their own. A lot of times its a popularity contest. Sometimes its based on actual merit.

I think they should be in it, if for only the reason that all three of their albums were immensly successful and also for the reason that they had so many hit songs. Didn't the first CD feature like 4 number one rock hits? They were more successful than any of the other Rock bands(Nickelback, Staind, 3 Doors Down, Puddle of Mudd, Evanescence for example) that followed them. Even though there were a lot of critics, you can't deny Creed's success on otherwise Pop/R&B/Rap dominated Pop stations. I honestly believe that their success on Pop radio made it possible for those bands that I mentioned to have the success that they did. This stuff alone is a reason why Creed should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

We haven't even talked about the musicians and why they're deserving of it. Tremonti, in my opinion, is one of the very best(if not the best) guitarists in Rock today. I don't know where I'd rank him among the overall greats, but I do know that Tremonti belongs near the top or at the top amongst the guys out there today. He's done some great stuff through-out his career, both in Creed and in Alter Bridge. Phillips is a pretty good drummer in his own right, and I think is always over-looked when people talk about the best drummers today in Rock. Marshall is a vastly underrated bassist. I also think he's among the best today at his instrument. And then there's Stapp....a guy who has incredible stage presence, has great charisma, has written some amazing lyrics and has a good voice to boot. Did I mention he can work the stage like few can in Rock today? I know, critics will dispute that Stapp is a good musician....but I truly believe that he is and I'm sure there's a lot of other people who agree with that.

Now, the question is, will Creed be in the Hall of Fame? I doubt it, which is a shame. Creed has been looked down upon by the critics and I think that hurts their chances of being in the Hall of Fame.

I don't think bands should be put in the HoF just because they sold a lot of albums or because they managed to get onto pop radio. In fact, getting on to pop radio is not very difficult, all you need to do is write catchy melodic hooks.

Creed should definitely NOT be in the HoF and if they are, I will lose all respect for the HoF. So they sold a ton of albums. Big deal, everyone does that. They gave absolutely NOTHING new to the rock world, and while their first album was good, their later albums were just full of the nonsense that bogs down mainstream rock today.

As for the musicianship: I am no bass expert but I have a few friends who play the bass and Marshall does not do much anything super special. Plus, he wasn't even WITH them for the last album. As for Philips... I DO know quite a bit about drums and he is not very good. At all. He might seem like he does a little more than the usual bass snare bass snare crap on mainstream stations, but in reality he does very little more. Tremo rocks, no doubting that, but his work on HC and Weathered was below his capabilities, and when someone is not even using their full range of talent, how can you make a case for them getting into the HoF?

And as for Stapp... Well y'all know what I think of him. ;)

my $0.02

Ya know, when I made that post, I knew Uncertain would post back disputing what I said.:laugh: No hard feelings, though.

as bad as i feel saying this, i've gotta kinda agree w/ Uncertain on this one. his assessment might be a little harsh at times, but it's mostly right on target. IMO, the hall is reserved for those who made a unique contribution to the field, those who are recognized as among the greatest for their particular instrument. stapp was a decent vocalist, but by no means outstanding. yes, his lyrics touched & moved us, but there's many bands who strive for that today, and not everyone is a fan of every last one of these. Mark's a great guitarist, but he hasn't yet distinguished or separated himself that much from any other rock guitarist today. and if/when he does, i'd say the odds are pretty good that that distinction will come with Alter Bridge, and not Creed. Marshall, isn't spectacular, either. I haven't taken a look at any Creed bass tabs, but the AB show I went to, it seemed as though he had a bit of trouble getting the intro to Sweet Emotion down. good song, good intro, but nothing terribly complex. and Flip, isn't terribly spectacular either. if I were more coordinated, i'm sure I'd have no trouble playing most of the songs (I can actually play air drums to quite a few songs, and I have absolutely no training in percussion... and I've sat at a drum set maybe 10 times in my life, tops). they made 32 songs that were released on their whopping 3 LP's in the US. and many rock critics will tell you, straight up, most of these songs sound the same. hell, there's Creed fans on here who'll tell you that HC is more or less the same thing from start to finish. in sum, I simply don't think Creed possess the credentials to even make a case for the HoF. as Uncertain said, I think it would discredit & undermine the Hall to enshrine them.

You knew I could not let you get away with a post like that. :D

Anyway, yeah, vocally, Stapp is decent. He is not special. Lyrically is entirely subjective and maybe it moved you, but from a technical standpoint, his lyrics were not ingenuitive.

And Flip... I love his drumming on Metalingus, but even THAT is something a 3 year student could do. He hasn't pushed the boundaries.

If ANYONE has a reason to be in the HoF from that band it would be Tremo, but if he goes in, it will be because of Alter Bridge, which has a much better chance at the Hall, if they continue in the right direction. I hope they do, becasue after Tremo's FIRST band had an awesome first album...

WOW !!! :rolleyes:

Alright, alright, I went a bit extreme in defending the guys, I suppose. But, you know, I'm a huge Creed fan, so it felt quite natural for me.:D I agree, Tremonti IS the best musician of the four. But I'm a huge fan of Stapp's lyrics and vocal ability, so I can't bash him as a musician.

Says who? I love the guy for his lyrics & voice, but musically, he's really not that talented. He, more or less, stays in a single-octave range... Cornell, Plant, Ozzy, they all stretch(ed) their ranges, even Myles does (I'm not trying to make this a Stapp/Kennedy debate, sorry). And I know this is post-Creed now, but it seems as though his voice has taken a beating. I guess that, via his decision to skip pre-show soundchecks, helped to reduce the solidarity within Creed.
But, anyway, back to my original point in this comment: you can be a fan of something, and still recognize its flaws. It's what one might call being more open-minded, etc. Now, being a conservative, there's nothing I embrace more and hold more dear to me than narrow-mindedness, but the extreme to which some members of this board (and ABRocks, for that matter) go is quite ludicrous at times. Stapp is NOT one of the best vocalists of all-time. You could perhaps make a case for this period, but most certainly not of all-time. Tru is not one of the best guitarists of all time (no one, to my knowledge, has stated that in this thread, but I've seen it before), though he is among the more accomplished players today. Flip & Brian don't seem to have done anything particularly remarkable with Creed, perhaps save for Brian's reference to Eddie Vedder or Fred Durst (I forget which it was lol) that ended up leading to his demise in Creed.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying Stapp is the best musician, but I am a fan of him as a vocalist and lyricist. I'd never say he's the best vocalist or even among the best of all-time, but he ranks high on my personal list. He definitely isn't the most talented musician, he doesn't play any instruments, doesn't compose the actual music like a lot of the most talented musicians(the guys you mentioned) do.

I agree, you can be a fan and recognize flaws. 12 Stones are my favorite band and yet I recognize that, though I am a big fan of the vocalist(Paul McCoy) and guitarist(Eric Weaver), they aren't among the best at their respective positions. I can, however, say they are among the top in my personal rankings, but I'd never put them up there with any of the "greats". It's the same thing with Stapp, Tremonti, Phillips and Marshall. While they all rank highly on my personal list, I don't dare put them high on the overall list, I don't dare say Tremonti is as good as Hendrix was or that Stapp is one of the best vocalists ever. That's going a bit too far. As a matter of fact, if we're speaking strictly on vocal ability, I'd rank Myles ahead of Stapp, simply because Myles has such incredible range. But I prefer not to bash one of my favorites(Stapp) as a musician, but I recognize his flaws and that he isn't among the best, at least in my opinion.

ROFL!


I dunno. I bash Flip quite a bit and yet I love Alter Bridge, lol!

Yeah, I agree with you, I really like Stapp's voice and lyrics but I have to admitt that sometimes he contributed a lot of to harm his own image. :(

By the way, Brian's reference was to Eddie Vedder.

Wow, I'd LOVE to not hear you play!!! ;)

Amen. I love you Ryan, I wanna have your babies. :silly:

thanks, i couldn't remember which.... i knew Stapp & Durst had gotten in it for a short period of time a few years back (i think that even made vh1's list of top 100 fueds of rock or something like that lol), but i couldn't remember if Brian came to Stapp's defense then, or did so on all the "just like Vedder" comparisons aimed at Stapp

turn off any music you've got going, and that's me! all filler, no killer lol

ummm...... yeah..... i think i'm going to go now lol

Breakin' my heart, man. :(

Anyway, back on topic, only bands with staying power, IMO, belong in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, they didn't have what it took to go the distance for whatever reason(s).

Yeah, but I'm willing to bet that if they would have stayed together, they'd still be racking up hit after hit, whether on pop or rock radio. It appears that personal differences were the main reason(but perhaps not the only reason) why they couldn't stay together for the length of time that most of the HoF groups have. Obviously, if Creed would have stayed together, I think they would have sold a bunch more records and had a bunch more hits. I think they definitely would have had the staying power on the charts to continue to be successful.

Hmm, I don't know if they would have had the requisite staying power or influence to reach the HoF, not with the direction they were going in, pop-wise and all. Weathered hasn't had the staying power of MOP and HC for me.

Oh, I agree. I definitely like HC and MOP more than Weathered, but Weathered had its good parts. Creed was going in the pop radio direction, and I think they could have continued to be successful with that. Look at the other Rock bands that have gone pop radio: 3 Doors Down, Nickelback, Staind etc. 3 Doors Down has continued to have hits on pop radio as has Nickelback. Creed was, in my opinion, a bunch better than those bands, so surely they could have had equal(if not more) success on pop radio. I know, that doesn't necessarily transfer to HoF contender, but really, what does qualify a band for the HoF? Is it records sold? Is it success on radio? Is it creativity? Is it the length of time that they are together as a band? Is it number of albums sold? Is it a combination of all these? I'm kinda curious. I don't pay much attention to the HoF, so I wouldn't know what their criteria is for who gets in and who doesn't get in. Have any of the ultra successful 90s Rock bands(Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, just to name 3) got into the HoF?

Creed would have continued to sell records and get hit singles, but two problems appear:

THEY DIDN'T, and no matter what the reasons were, you can't say that just because they "could have" that they should get credit for it. Second, even if they shelled out pop hit after pop hit, a bunch of un-creative lame radio hits do not get you into the HoF. You compared them to 3DD... You think 3DD has a chance of a snowball in Hell of getting into the HoF? No. What does get one into the Hall of Fame? It is rather ambiguous, but you at least have to be somewhat original--Creed was not.

And the ultra sucessful rock bands from the 90's can't get into the HoF yet because it has to be 25 years after your first major release before you get into the HoF.

I thought there was that 25-year waiting period. That's why U2 recently got in...it's been just 25 years, I think. Anyway, I agree with you, uncertain. As much as I love Creed, I don't think they blazed any new musical trails, though they did a good job with a tried-and-true format. Tremo's playing is what hooked me initially.

You're right, Uncertain. They didn't stick together and they didn't sell more records. I never said that they should get in based on the COULD HAVES. I simply stated that I thought that if they would have stayed together, they could have sold a bunch of records. My point in bringing up 3DD was that, if they can continue to be successful in terms of selling records and scoring hits, then why can't a band that I believe is better(Creed) be just as, if not more, successful than 3DD? I never implied that Creed should get in just based on success. I also never implied that I thought 3DD deserves the HoF. I just wanted to use an example in pointing out that Creed could have stayed successful if they would have stuck together. I guess I could have been more clear in the way that I wrote everything.

I forgot about the 25 year rule. I did know about that, but obviously when I typed that, I just plain forgot about it. I guess we'll have to see in 10-15 years if any of the ultra successful 90s bands get in. Should be interesting.

they have no chance of getting into the Hall of Fame. i honestly cannot even say if they'll still be known in 17 years. i can name 10 bands from the 90s-2000s that have a way better chance of getting in, and even some of those bands might not get in.

I wasn't trying to say you thought 3DD was getting into the HoF (okay, maybe I was ;) ) but yeah, don't take offense, lol

And yes, it WILL be interesting when the time rolls around for Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam... I actually think Nirvana and Soundgarden are shoo-ins, and I think pearl jam is a pretty good shot as well.

Wait, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam aren't in the Hall of Fame yet? Jeez, they are way overdue. Not so much Nirvana though, imo.

Well, it's really only because of the 25 year rule, I'd assume. I mean, if PJ and SG aren't in the HoF when it's been 25 years since their first CD, I'd say that those HoF people are crazy. Just like they would be crazy, imo, if they put Nirvana and SG in there but not PJ. SD and PJ oughta be shoe-ins for the HoF; not so sure about Nirvana.

Nirvana is a shoe-in, like it or not. I hate Nirvana, but even I can admit that bands such as Creed would never have happened without them.

And the 'Garden and PJ had better be in, as well.

Oh, I'm sure Nirvana will get in, but I'm just saying that SG and PJ should be definite shoe-ins, above Nirvana.