"Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

As Chase is such a firm believer in human rights (see his post in the WMD-thread), I didn't want him to mis this news from a human rights organisation.

London - Almost 100 people that have been taken in American captivity in Iraq and Afghanistan have died during that process. In at least 34 cases it was either homicide or manslaughter, stated the American organisation Human Rights First last tuesday, on the eve of the publication of a report which goes into detail about this.

In the report 34 cases of "intentional or reckless behaviour" are being mentioned, which have led to the death of an inmate. Between 8 to 12 people are believed to be tortured to death. Human Rights First further mentions 11 suspect deaths, as was being said in tuesday night's BBC-programm Newsnight.

One persoon was supposed to be coerced to jump of a bridge over the Tigris, another was propped into a sleeping bag and suffocated. The study by the organisation used investigation reports of the army and American government documents. "We are convinced of the level of truth and the reliability of the facts", according to the writerof the report, Deborah Pearlstein.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I'm going on vacation to Sweden for a week, so I won't be able to answer before next week wednesday.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Ralphys! Were in sweden are you going? :D I live here... Not the best of times to visit us thuogh...

Well... This is old news that you're comming with, I thought it was pretty clear america did this...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

-

Quote:

Almost 100 people that have been taken in American captivity in Iraq and Afghanistan have died during that process...

Roffe is right ...it is an old news -- lately we ve been hearing this kind of (bad!) news and not only from Americans army but for instance also from Britain soldiers...I think everybody knows about that video showing soldiers spanking some iraq guys...

And even though its a liitle bit 'old' --its good to see this kind of thing being noticed by the common people by tv and web...because its getting very hard in these days to try to keep this violence out of the public's eyes...:rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

You think this is hard for the public to see? Try getting the media to show the good that's going on in Afghanistan and Iraq... that's near impossible.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Well...everyone's expect the good things from the militaries in these places...wasnt the initial idea?? Their mission? I mean... invading Afghanistan and Iraq to get rid of the dictatorship/authoritarism/all kind of abuses from their goverments, and in return to promote the peace/ assistance/better conditions to lead people to democracy?????

So people are expecting the goods as a 'normal' thing...not the opposite: spaking/abuses/humiliations imposedby the militaries.

But now you have your chance: whats the good in Afghanistan and Iraq?? Just curious...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

recent massacre and violence in iraq after the bombing of the sacred shiate tomb is probably one of the worst man kind may have seen in recent times...........may afghanistan has some instances like the killing at tora bora mountians when daisy cutters were dropped on villages..............i mean recently in iraq more then 200 people in died in 3 days....most were ambushed while dayer hands were tied.............this is serious insainity goin on........mixed wid confusion and anger........every body seems to be kiliin others...........not knowin who is creatin the violence.......and ofcourse ........in civil war situations............casuallities caused by military mishaps also tends to increase..........damn............ this killing of innocent human beings all over the world............ i wish i cud do something for the peace..............

may be i shud sing this song and turn my back to the news

affirmative may be justifeid
take from one...give to another

the goal is to be unified....
take my hand be my brother

i fell angry ...i feel helpless
want to chage the world

ifeel volantile ....i feell alone
dont try to stop me no!!

(wow....dat was seroius stuff man..................)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

It is nearly impossible unless you speak to a returning soldier or someone who has family over there. So much positive goes unnoticed. But, that is the nature of the newsmedia - to accentuate the negative.


I also feel volantile :confused:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

but its very hard for me to except that war is actually a sloution to something........................ i mean....it failed in Afgahnistan............... and it has misreabllly gone bad in iraq.............. i dont see peaace any where...........and all i remember is poor peolple inculuding solideris too dat have died.............. i mean whats the sin of the soldiers dat have nothing to do and are sent to do a mission.............its just a political game.............. and soldiers are dispensible items...........and the local people dont mean a shit............... cause no body gonna question you..........atleast that is what i feel.................. dayer is no use for war.................WAR IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE A COUNTRY CAN EVER MAKE!!!!!!!

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

It failed in Afghanistan? How did it fail in Afghanistan? The Taliban was dismantled... and Al Qaeda was evacuated from that former terrorist safe haven. Recently, Osama bin Ladan stated that he was frustrated with the insurgents in Afghanistan because he felt that they had given up. In Iraq... the "Butcher of Baghdad" no longer has anyone to mass murder and Iraqis are now able to have a say in the way their country is governed. "Political game?" You want to get into politics? I don't think so... seeing as your from a military dictatorship who refuses to be hospitable to India.

Pakistan is an ally in the War on Terror... but for you to blame the U.S. for Islamic extremism is absurd. The U.S. isn't responsible for people who execute innocent humanitarian aide workers while chanting "Allah Akbar." Islamic extremists have declared war on all non-Muslims... that is why we are in the mess in the first place.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Terrorists are targeting innocent men, women, and children. You could start advocating peace by urging moderate Muslims to actually protest these disgusting acts for once. Start telling people that Israel has a right to exist. That anti-Semiticism will only escalate violence. That fighting over the Kashmir region is pointless. Start telling people that Americans, Europeans, and the rest of the Western world are entitled to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." That they are entitled to free speech and to a free press. To me, a satirical cartoon of Muhammed is no where near as bad as cold blooded murder.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

hey Chase.... u sound bitter....may be u have every right to be so.....may b because u think people over the globe dont understand the noble cause ur army is servin in dayer country....may be.........i have my own perspective.... but kindly try to understand my point of view too........i said war failled in Afgahnistan.....why??......for me.....war failled on the very first day when one innocent man was killed by American bomb..........u might say its the price a country has to pay....u might also say that many would have been killed if u werent doin what u actually did??............if dat was the justification for the killing....then it was all wrong........secoundly..... when the war was begining.....u might have seen Taliban forces geetin all geared up, bazookaz adn AK47 all around.....those poor chaps were thinkin dey would actually have a duel.....what happpend???...bombs fell......and Chase buddy....when a bomb explodes....its doesnt care what comes in its way......THousands and thousands of people died because of US bombs.....REd cross workers...women and kids.......villages wiped out....i saw in my country the insurgens of fleein people from aFghanistan...... i hope u havent forgotten dat terrible massacre of 300 prisoners in one day when i believe some of them took over certain amunition and tried to escape....and end result was a massacre of 300 mens.....on new years eve when ur time square was celebrating life....a village was bombed adn 100 civillians died( i particullary remeber dat cause of the new years eve) ...a war is a dirty dirty bussines man....u cant blame the solders too...its just one dirty pit and u say ur hands are clean......think again

WHat little ground fight was done was latter on done with the help of notheren Alliance in afghanistan....the Shia groupp dat was against Taliban........here ill say...and u may disagreee....dat US army wasnt trained to fight in mountains and dey needed trained peopel......so ur aRmy hired those killers and no lessmurdures then taliban....to help them.......

Talibans were extremist.....why nothres aliiiance guys hated Taliban....cause Talibans have killed a lot of dayer guys Just because they were shia muslims and not hte main streem muslims......THats sad......why i think Talibans were justified in some places was that......when US left afghanistan in the 80z........with no government ...(when it was most needed).....and loads of ammunition all around....if Taliban force hadnt taken control and formed a governement of sorts........the civil war wuldnt happend......OFCOURCE dayer are other factors too...i am not just blamin US but hey.......i hate war......and i hate zombie kinda soldiers.......

I dont understand why tAliban were targetted in the first place...... they had Osama...........may be......is OSama really responsible for the horrible 9/11 tragedy.... i cant seem to believe that couple of guys trained in AFghanistan can manuver boings in to buidldings....but lets just not take up dat argument ....let just say Osama is responsible......den what.......i believe a noble thing wud have been if US forces first located OSama and Then landed in the ground and wiped out taliban and taken OSama......but what happened .......in the end Ur forces were searchin for any thing to bomb.....AFghanistan is same as before..........nothing has changed............Know people have a governemt and dats good........previously dayer was no way a government could have been formed....so dont blame Talibans for all the misery of Afghanistan........


ur sayin i blamed US for Islamic extremism............read my post again man...u say Pepple chantin Allah is GReat execute aid workers...that is less then a Percent or even more less screwed up souls...... but have u ever studdies Islam???........... do u know dat a muslim has more rights of his felloow human beings ( not muslims alone) then for the GOd ALmighty ..... do u know dat in islam....murder of a human being ( no muslim) is equal to the murder of whole humanity.........

i dunno if i even want to be in shoes of the US soldiers who are also confused as the masses....who just want to get back home alive.......and when he finds himself under attack....may be if i am in his place....i might have just closed my eyes and let go of the burst.........damn..... we do get news of innocent people gettin shot dead by ARmy guys.....dont we...........

ALL i am saying is dat WAr is not a solution....its just the last pathetic thing to do...... see how a child dat cant get what he wants which isnt his.......try to snatch it ...and crys at the same time......dats ugly...........and so is WAR.....

man...i wish we could have sittin together.........i know u dont want any innocent US citizen to be felllin even unsafe for a minute......u have ur right to freeedom and to live fully........i want the same for evey one all over the globe........being a muslim........ i have lots of greifs.......do u want me to count dem to u...............where shud i start..... i have to count deaths of my brother mulims in palistine evey day....in Kashmir.....in iraq....in AFghanistan.......and in my own cities and streets........and i dont know what is wrong....who is responsible........who to plead too.........damn......but i will never accept that US led oCCupations is ever gonna get goood outta the pit of shit......................and u innocent people of US might think and may be ur ARmy guys too dat dey are doing all this for World peace...ur mother givin dayer sons to help the world..... but in behind all......u wiill agree dat poly-tics is the driving force....

i hope ull appreciate my position too....and try to be neutral.....ur secound reply is a bit confusing ...i lll reply to dat latter

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

maybe because ...Osama is...alive?:rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Your post has really some interesting points.;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

that doesn't mean it's failed. it's not as easy as we may have initially hoped, but simple not finding one person, versus removing a fair amount of the oppressive social structure imposed by a radical sect of "Islam." Hmmm...... which would you prefer?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Well...I remember your governement saying the reason to invade Afeghanistan was to catch Osama-and of course to end terrorism that was spread after september 11 by Al-QAEDA..."

" not finding one person"

I cant believe in you saying it Ryan...:eek:

Because even Chase will agree that Osama is very far from a 'one person'. He is (unfortunately) THE person. Dont forget it...Bush, by the way didnt forget it...

And Im unaware of the new structure Afghanistan has these days...what I really know is a country extremely miserable and destroyed by the war that btw your country started, so its a very very distant from the positive image you are trying to paint.

And its not what I prefer... of course me as you (I think) prefer PEACE. PEACE instead of war.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

sorry... typo: I meant to say "but simply not finding one person, versus...." By this, I meant that I'm more glad that the Taliban's gone than I am worried that Osama's still at large. What's he done in the past 4 1/2 years? Put out a few videos every now and then? They might as well release those singles and play those videos on VH1........

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

That's fairly ill-informed. Here's how it went down:
+ US forms NATO following WWII to help defend Western Europe from the Commie bastards in the USSR.
+ 50+ years later, alliance still in tact (plus more members), even though USSR is no more.
+ Taliban extremists attack United States in 2001.
+ NATO says, "Hold the phone! You're attacking a member of our alliance! That means we all kick your ass. Die, motherfuckers!"
+ NATO kicks Taliban out of Afghanistan.
+ Years later, people confuse details of Iraq War & Afghanistan.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Some points:

1) Im not confusing Iraq with Afghanistan at all!

2) I have the knowledge of this alliance

3) Even though I didnt comment it on my previous post (actually I forgot to add it) the war in Afeghanistan started like a response of US to the attacks in 11/9...I remember saying in this forum that I can understand US invade Afeghanistan because America was attacked first...but dont agree with it, of course.

4) But in fact, this invasion clearly contributed to destroy even more Afeghanistan...you cant deny it....can you?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

my NATO post was in regards to this statement of yours. you seemed to be insinuating that the U.S. really had no reason at all to go into Afghanistan, and that, furthermore, we were the only ones who went in. with Afghanistan, that couldn't be farther from the truth. We did not start it. If you attack the state that has the most powerful military in the world, which also happens to be a member of a sizable alliance, you would be very naive to think that there won't be some kind of response.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I said your country started this war --which is true, but I know that US started the war because America was attacked/provoked first by terrorists in september 11. This is also true. Im not denying it.

I never said US had no reason to go into Afeghanistan, sorry if you got it wrong. Actually i think US had no reason to invade Iraq, but I do admitt that with Afeghanistan is another thing...I understand US reason but still dont agree with this war.

Im not naive, Ryan...actually Im very far from it ( specially considering my age...lol) but I think is naive to think that war in Afeghanistan didnt fail.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Afghanistan is not destroyed by the war. My best friend just put his life on the line trying to defend the freedoms of those Afghans. The same Afghans who were oppressed by the Taliban regime. They have a good leader in Hamid Karzai and have been relatively stable since the fall of their former regime. If you're unaware about the current situation, then I encourage you to do some research. I have heard the first hand accounts from people who have been there. The Taliban funded 9/11, oppressed millions of Afghans, and were a safe haven to Al Qaeda operatives. These bastards not only attacked the United States, but humanity. We had to defend ourselves.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

If the biggest attack on Brazil's soil took place tomorrow how would you feel? If one state funded those attacks what would you want your government to do? Sit there and not respond? I'm sorry Ana, but it is naive to think that responding with force would not send a message to not only that nation, but to the rest of the world. Attacking freedom comes with a price. Many Americans are willing to die to protect freedom. 9/11 affected the whole world, and not just America.

"I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve."-Admiral Yamamoto, Commander of the Japanese Fleet following the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Are you blind or something Chase? Did you really read my reply to Ryan????
I said that I understood US invading Afeghanistan because America was attacked FIRST. This is what I said. But like always you try to change my words here...

Just to you remember:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp I said your country started this war --which is true, but I know that US started the war because America was attacked/provoked first by terrorists in september 11. This is also true. Im not denying it. I never said US had no reason to go into Afeghanistan, sorry if you got it wrong. Actually i think US had no reason to invade Iraq, but I do admitt that with Afeghanistan is another thing...I understand US reason but still dont agree with this war.

You are the only one here who is naive...if not...answer me that: what was the reason of september 11 attacks?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

The reason? It was the goal of Islamic extremist to attack our way of life. Why are you asking me that? Are you convinced that they were justified in murdering 3,000 innocent people?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I think Bin Ladden was pissed about American troops being on sacred Arabian soil to protect the oil interests of the royal family:confused:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I can see them 'relatively stable' here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4457876.stm

Its interesting ...how a miserable and opressed country by Taliban cant be destroyed by the war? I mean, wars clearly destroy countries in all meanings the word destruction has...so why US now is helping to 'rebuilt' Afghanistan if it wasnt destroyed? :rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Thats true that america became victim of terrrorism.............but dayer are ways of responding and reacting........... i mean............. ok ...........Taliban were protecting osama bin laden........fine..............and i am not into discussin wether Osama is behind the attacks or its just a false puppett or sort of a escape goat for America.......( kindly open ur mind and just TRY to consider this ......atleast try man..i know its hard for any body) ..... i mean......its hard for me to actually believe that the worlds most strongest and sofisticated techonology cant locate a person for all this time.......... imean BIll Clinton did fired a tomhawk missile during his presidency term.........dat landed quite close to where OSama was and dat was some few years earlier to September 11................ why to invade a country and kill its already devestated people , be willing to kill 1000sd of civilians .( and no one can deny dat this did not happened).......just for what...........to find a person to .... to punishh one suspect.............therer is no logic in it for me........


u might say.... " hey ... there the one who started..." ........ read history man.......these things take centuries to build.......... its the actions over centuries that lead an entire nation to develop hatred ........... and America's hands are not clean at all!!!!!........................



i mean....TAliban dudes...........no matter how much hate dey had for America............. werent they also human beings........... created by same God...............dey hated America alrigh........why????........... if dat was all misunderstanding and they had no reason at all for the hatered....( u might again blame "islamic extemism for the hate"...... thats the biggest sppoff of the century)...........cant dat be cured.................. i mean .....why does USA alaways adopt the policy of "Kill em' all""...............damn............ i mean is dat the only cure.............. "Kill em' all""....................damn ......dats was all left to do............"Kill em' all""..............


innocent always pays the price in this dirty business of WAR............many innocent died on the day of Sept 11 .................10 times more died in AFghanistan tryin to compensate for shattered ego of worlds most powerfull nation.............. to me life of an AFghan refugee..........is no less valuable then a life of an innocent office goin American.........both have equal rights to live..........and That is something THat is the very first casualty of WAR...............Innocent dies..............thats what happens....... and if u believe that an AFghanistani person has no hatered for America after what they did in their country............thhen ur very wrong my dear friend............ cause i intract with these people almost daily.........1000 sd of refugees still live in PAkistan...........and i have heard therir stories many timnes........some have lost brothers..........some lost thire kids.........i have seen beggging kids........who are molested everyday and night cause they fleeed from the War and are know living homeless in my country.......living and dying in streets.........Pakistan being it self ecnomically low........cant help em all...........

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Im glad you are here posting these rational comments. ;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Are u willing to let a foriegn invading army to kill ur dad.......murdur ur mother............kill all ur kids........... destroy ur home.........put u in a container used as a jail cause ur country dont have any place left to hold prisoners...... u and other captives are shittin and bleeding on each other faces cause the place is too cramped.......... ur wife gets rapped cause there is no law and order left as TAliban forces are scatteered or eliminated and guns and ammunition is all over the country.........and in THE END ur told that this was the price u have paid..... to achieve goals and objectives that wearnt really ur own..................... just imagine that dude............

History takes many years and eliments to create.......... WHat MADE TALIBAN..........wehrer the heck they came from..............??? i would have loved to end my post here and wait to see ur reply CHASE.......but let me continue onn......imagine this..........if all of the cops of any of ur city are evacuated...........lets say of NEW YORK................. and its announced that no police or any law inforcement activiy wiil ltake palce for say 3 days............. just imagine what will happen to ur beautify city............... let me tell me you what will happpen.......... all the shops will be robed.......... murder will take place in every corner of streets............ no one will feell safe..................??? and simmmilar kinda things......... and u will agree with dat............. guns have always been a problem for US public.............havent it been????................ when Soviets were humiliated and defeated in AFghanistan ......... by gorrila war fare of Afghani civiliiians turned freedom fighters ...........(of cource with the help of US intelligence and arms supllied..............) what happpend next............AMerica never returned to Afghanistan till after shocks of September 11.......... they just left AFghanistan on its own............. no government ............no system..............only AMMunition .........tanks ( just for your information........... only the tyres left used by Russian army trucks and then abandoned in afghanistan are still bein used today to make a special type of shoe........ actally its a slipper kinda shoe and i love it........its cool lokin and i only wear that.......its actually tyre sole with leather straps on top.....its hand made.......and believe me...the left feet shoe never matches in size and width with the right one.....damn its hand made)............... devestated people............. no infra structure......... u can imagine the horrible state of crime and disorder in such a place........... if TAliban werent formed.........at that time............... as a form of government and controlling body............ my dear freind.......there would'nt have had any AFghanistan left.........all the balme would have been passed on to Soviets..........but Taliban cAme in to existance..............and they formed there governemtn....ofcource not a democratic...........and of cource opppresive indeeed my firend ...ur right here............. but it wwas the need of the hour.............world never made anny connection with afghanistan afterwards..........no........... only sanctions and more sanctions........... my freind Chase......the people of Afghanistan have had a terrrible history .....u gotta check it out first................ every kid born in hte last 30 years....under the shawdow of war and terror......... and eventually became TAliban............ and u expect them no to harbur enemy of USA................. taliban thought they will again get a gorrila warfare in mountains............and they thought they can beat USA............. poor chaps............... all they ever saw were bombs and bombs and......still more bombs...........the most synical thing ever built...........


trust me bro....... ..... and do correct ur self bro.......... Talibans werent not responsible with Septembe 11 attacks..... they only harboured OSama bin laden........... no one knew how a gguy who never flew an airlinner before could manuver planes in to building.........( my cousin is a pilot of air bus kinda plane and he tells dat no one but an expert could manuver that 747 bitch to a building) and four succesive planes......... that it self is a sepearte debate not relevent to the topic here.....but trust me bro...........NEVER SUPPORT WAR.........DONT MAKE THIS MISTAKE THAT HAS ONLY DEVISTATION AND MISREY TO OFFER..........

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsAr...HAN-PRISON.xml

Another example of the stable Afghanistan


And yes bilal- after the Soviets were turned out of Afghanistan, for example, no help was forthcoming for the devastated country, and 'chaos' made it possible for the Taliban to come to power.

Indeed, Osama bin Laden was an obvious 'protege' of the west, which was 'happy' to support his fighters in the struggle for Afghanistan against U.S.S.R. , in the Cold War days.

So... now America and its allies in West are seeing the consequences of their actions in the past.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Okay,

Im new to this political forum so here goes my take on this argument. War is a horrible thing, I have many friends and a cousin who is abroad in Iraq right now so I will try not to be biased to middle eatern or westerner. I am from the United states and I support the war effort. Many may look at war and say It is a last resort to a political dispute, but I believe its more about Good vs Evil. I am not calling anyone who worships islam or any middleastern evil. But there are forces at work in this world who have a dying need to Kill, Rape, Pillage, steal and destroy all except what is important to them.

Osama Bin Laden is not a matyr, hes not a god, not superhuman and he sure as hell is not a representative of the prophet Mohammed. He is a cold blooded killer who has no remorse for anything he does. He uses the palestinian cause and Islamic extremism to train boys and young children to be suicidal killers. The truth is that the world would be a better place without these men in it. I do not for one second believe that you can politically reason with someone who is not affraid to die. The fact that Iran is defying the world in order to enrich Niclear materials for use as weapons. He knows this, he doesn't care. There are other ways for Iran to have nuclear power but that is not this country's aministrations goals. The military commander for the Iranian government was responsible for the recruitment of one of the largest suicidal Matyrdom brigades. They have members in the thousands and I think it is so sad that they parade younh Iranian children around with machine guns offering them to death....Its horrible...American, Pakistani, Afgan, African, noone wants to see their loved ones die, especially in that manor.They showed a video of one of these suicede bombers mother and father. The father stood proud like his son had just done some great humanitarian deed all the while His mother sits there grief stricken and unable to speak her mind as her husban hold her sons photo over her head because she can't. We all know how women are percieved by most arab nations.
If one looks back on wars of the past and realizes the mistakes that were made. There were plenty of them, however I think the world would be a totally different place today if Hitler was not stopped. As it is we joind to late and were lucky to defeat this murderer of millions.
I think the world is a place that has gone totally wrong when madman whose only goal is to wipe the United States and Isreal out is given access to weapons of mass destruction. If the regime of the Iranian government is not changed they will develop a nuclear bomb and believe me they sure as hell will use it. Bilal I look forward to hearing your commentaryon my post, you do have some valid points but alot of them are far reaching such as the possible 9/11 conspiracy. Those pilots that flew the planes into the world trade center were trained to fly a plane and had plenty of miltary training to pull something like that off. I mean this is the same group that bomberd Bali, Egypt, United Kingdom, The us Embasies in Tanzania and the Sudan, The USS Cole and the world trade center in 93 and orchestrated a attack on Us soldiers trying to help the somalian people from genecidr at the hands of a miltia government that stole all the food for peopleand alot of them were buddies with Osama bin laden. They were also trined to fly in the USA which has some of the best flights schools around.If you look at the statistics for plane crashes per year in the usa its the best rating out of any international airways.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

know this is something ........... after reading ur post my good freind...i have decided not to go to bed ( its 3"50 in the night here right know and i have to be in my office tomorry at 8"30)................

ur right on almost all the things u have mentioned..... ur every word hits home...........and its beautiful stuff u have written there buddy....i loved reading it...............but u know what....i ll try to be most precise here ....... the thing that i am most agaisnt about....and why i am saying all this agaisnt war is becasue...... and as u have said in ur post ........ ur COuntry puts every correct text book reason upfront before going to war........as u said ur self....... maniancs and murderors needs to stoped and taught a lesson................agreeed!!!!!............... ur country justifies the war that its going to............... gets all the things gatherd up .,...all support ....all allies....... and every thing in place...alll prepared for war...........a war against terror or enduring freedom....all the poetic and enthusiatic things behid it.......BUT MY FREIND.....LOOK AT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS WHEN THE WAR STARTS....................AND WHAT IT LEAVES BEHID!!!!!!................what happens to original objectives and where the war is draged to so far.........try to recall what were the objectives told to the country at start.........................its truely very right to kill and teach lesson to those who do bad and evill................ but WAR my dear freind .........jjust look at what happpened in afghanistan!!!!.............alright....put it aside........ its a little old hannn................just loook at whats going on in Iraq......... how many police men dies......how may cilivlians dies daily..........why all american army casulties.............. here in iraq majority killing is being done by "GOd knows only who"..........those "WHo" who just need to create a spark and let the common man get in to teh fire... but but BUT.......please loook.........whos dying!!!!........INNOCENT.....INNOCEN PEOPLE.....lives are bieng ruined.......genreation are getting poisoned......WHY!!!!!!.....my dear freind why all this all evil doing people are out all at once......making all this terror and killing............... shia muslims of iraq blame shuni muslim....and murder them.........and then happens vise versa................ this is all result of WAR.......... what happened in Afghanistan.....why people died.........innocent people......i being a muslim............... why do i have to watch this alll happening in the name of ISLAM.......why i see my muslim brother and sisters lives being ruined and killed every day.......why isnt dayer life is cared as much as those of oridnary americans.................why>?????.........i tell you why............becasue its a wAR dats goin on.........and casulties and loos of innocent lives and INNOCENCE it self gets killed...............i have studied my religion all my life....and i have learned to love and have peace with GOd..........why all this is bieng blamed to Islam............. i agree......Sadam wasnt a fair rulller....heck!!....he want even elected...... but why didnt USA let United nations hanndle the matter........why didnt USA helped or i MUST say allowed other muslim nations to try to solve the matter............just take a lookat the recent bombing of one of the holly sites in iraq....it was equllly adored by all muslims but having its link to shiate muslims....... led to new killings and my eyes were filled with tears when i saw the bodies of some 47 iraqies taken out of a ditch .... handcuffed killed by whome .....no body know.s......... shot dead for what............. to take revenge of recent massacre done by opposite gorup...................and belevie me...this killing wont end.............these are such deadly wounds on each and every effecteee of the War .....that arent goin to heal...............this is one of those historic crises...........that will bring many and many and many more terrible things back to world...............and we thing the war is actaully .,,,,eventually bring peace................

ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT UR COUNTRY THINKS WAR IS GONA BRING ALL THE BAD AND EVIL TO REST AND UR COUNTRY WILL BE SAFE HAVEN ONCE AGAIN........BUT LOOOK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN U ACTUALLY INVADE A COUNTRY AND BRINGS WAR TO IT...................... WHY U START A MESS THAT U CANT CONTROL.....IT ONLY FUELS EVIL AND HATRED AMOUNG PEOPLE..........TRUST ME MAN....IF ONE IS SINCERE........ THERE ARE WAYS THAT CAN BE SORTED OUT..... .WHY ALWASY WAR................WHY........


you told me about ur relative being there is Iraq..........u know what.....right know i am felling that if i those ur relatives were in front of me.........who went there having same objectives and intentions as you have mentioned as yours in ur post abouve.......I MIGHT HAVE EVEN KISSED THEIR HANDS.......man ...........i dont even wana imagine the risk ur people at war are taking...........but look..........what is actually goin on in iraq................. its messed up.......... u thought bringing down sadDam or say the origanal objectives as being destroying weapons of mass distrucion.......which ofcource are as invisible as OSama till this day.......... what was supposed to be acheived and what has happpened so far.........tell me honestly man..........do u think every thing is going as per plans!!!.......do ur government actually had thought out or expected all this blooodshed...........and isnpite of it.............went on wiht the invation..............???.........do u think normal neutral iRaqi will every approve ur war........

ur concer over Irans neuclear plan is right.........but i am not much informed over the recent updates.....i will try to reply to dat too...............cause u know ....after ur ARmy gets finished with Iraq and still havent learned a lesson.........oh....why am i sayin ur army shud learn...... ofcource ur Governemnt should...........adn ur poeple should realise what happend dayer..........may be iRAn is next.................and then what..........hmm....most definitely PAkistan......... but how knows what last for how long.................


I AM NOT ARGUING ABOUT UR INTENTIONS...............but i will never approve ur ACTIONS

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Your a good guy bilal,

I hope there are alot of pakistanis in your part of the world who do not think that all Americans are bad. Its no secret that there is alot of anti americanism in the Middle East. I have always wanted to visit the middle east, you have a great culture and its a shame that the events of the past fifty or so years is causing such a rift in the world. There are so many interesting places in the middle east and I may never get to see them and because of all this hate and bloodshed.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

This is only speaking to one of bilals points - In this case most innocent people are dieing because insurgents choose to fight and hide among everyday people. I am aware of military mistakes so there are other factors in the loss of the innocent. War is ugly but what else is there when facing an agressor who hides among good people? Is it hard to believe that terrorism unchallenged will seek to dominate the entire globe? Not by conquering governments but, controling through fear and extortion.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

That by the way will become worse and worse...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

what was the reason for the Sept. 11 attacks? Hmmm... I'll take a stab at this one:
Some wealthy and violently anti-American organization hellbent on conveying their messages through violent, anti-democratic tactics were finally frustrated enough with creeping American influence in the Middle East that they decided to do something about it by sending a message. Yep, looks like that one went according to plan. :rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

age alone does not make one naive or not.

also, it's ludicrous to call something that's still ongoing a failure, to write it off as not having any chance of success, just as you seem to be doing Ana.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Hey..wheres your sense of humor...I was joking about my age ...right?:D

Well..its not what 'Im doing', Ryan...its the fact...anyway...call me naive if you want..but does it sounds naive or ludicrous?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme..._4/4755222.stm

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

This is totally unpolitically correct, but the middle east has ALWAYS had bad relations with the rest of the world since the rise of Islam. I mean sure, there are periods of relative peace, but there has been constant Islamic wars since Mohammed started. It is definitely not just the events of the past fifty years that have the tensions as they are.