Take a step back... again
 

[I'd appreciate it if this message wasn't censored again. None of this is rumor, it's just my analysis of events. Take it, leave it, or respond]

OK, yeah I know this is all speculation, but I've gleamed some interesting "psuedo-facts" from what's happened so far...

Take a step back and look at the present facts we do know at this point...

OK, for those of you people that don't know, the original members of Creed were Scott Stapp, Mark Tremonti, Scott Philips and Brian Marshal. Brian resigned from or was kicked out of Creed during the Human Clay tour for some as-of-yet unknown reason. Some claim it had to do with some somewhat questionable comments Brian made about Vedder & Peal Jam, and others say it just had to do with "artistic differences." A studio bassist, Brett Hestla, filled in for Brian during the Weathered tour.

To analyze...

Now, we know that Mark and Flip are starting a new band without Scott Stapp. That doesn't necessaily tell us much. However, the fact that Brian Marshall is getting together with the band has got to say something... it's not just a coincidence. If Brian was kicked out because of his PJ comments (i.e. booted for being a "loose cannon," then why would Mark and Flip welcome him into a new band? If Brian was kicked out because of "artistic differences," then, again, why would he be welcomed back? Furthermore, why would *Brian* want to join a band with members that supposedly gave him the boot? Think about it logically.

The absence of Stapp from all this is significant. There must have been some kind of friction between these two guys -- it's the only logical explaination I can think of for 1) Mark and Flip allowing Brian to join the new band and 2) for Brian deciding to essentially re-join "Stappless Creed".

The more I think about it, the more I see how a rift could have been forming between Stapp and the other band members. To take things one step further, I'd argue that Stapp's desire to unilaterally control the direction of the band could have led to the boot/resignation as well as the de-facto breakup. Ever watch video interviews with Creed when Stapp, Mark and Flip are there? Stapp would always dominate the conversation. Even when the others spoke out, Stapp would always rein them in, taking back control of the conversation. Mark always looks miserable in those interviews, often with arms folded and looking away. I think many of you know what I'm talking about. You can sometimes tell quite a deal from people's body language.

Anyway, from those two points -- the fact that Brian is joining a "Stappless Creed" and the perceived "controling" manner of Stapp -- leads me to believe a lot of this has to do with Stapp and the direction he was taking the band into.

Again, don't get all your collective panties in a bundle! That's my analysis of the situation. If you don't like my analysis, so be it. I'm not pretending to know the true facts... but none of us ever will, so it's interesting to present some facts and try to make some sense out of them.

yeah... Mark doesn't like to be on the spotlight, being interviewed and speaking... but everytime he wanted to say something, he would interupt Stapp to say his thoughts. And everytime Stapp did agree... believe it or not, Mark is shy...

Now, how much recognition does drummers get? we never hear from them... how many Flip sites are on net? that I'm aware, just Fliponline.

The vocalist is the frontman, dude. Everyband is interviewed, it's always the singer speaking at least 80% of the time.

Could be, but I never got that impression. But beyond that, one has to admit there's something a little strange about Brian joining/being invited to the new "Stappless Creed" band.

There's nothing strange. At first I thought that, I admit.

But when Brian left the band, the climate wasn't good. Although Brian is, according to Mark, the best bassist he knows to play with, their relationship was downhill.

Maybe what hurt Brian wasn't the fact he was kicked out by Stapp, by them or due the fact Mark/Flip didn't stand for him at that time... who knows? we don't know the truth... maybe someday we will... but at Jan 16th, 11:30 pm, Brasilia Time, we don't know.

When people first posted at the pit that Brian would join Mark and Flip, his relatives couldn't believe and said it wasn't possible. Later, it was posted that this person never thought Brian could be so forgiving. Brian loves to play with Mark as well.

What went wrong in the past, they settled it. With Stapp, it maybe a bit harder (not because of Stapp, but because of what went wrong), but hopefully they can make peace.

we can't predict things. Who, among us, would say creed was going to break up? we'd call the person a freak or a troll...and laugh at it.

Some people even speculated that after almost a year, Mark was still pissed at Stapp due Chicago... but they put a unique concert a couple days after Chicago...

"Let it roll, baby, roll!"

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Just a note: you contradict yourself in your first two paragraphs. Your own speculation is in fact rumor since speculation is based upon non-factual points.

Could be. But my speculation is based upon fairly well-known facts (i.e. the "breakup" and that Brian has joined the new band). I'm trying to logically piece together why those facts happened. I'm not claiming my speculation is true, so I'm not really spreading rumors. Rumors are "unverified information received from another." I'm not repeating any unverified information. I'm trying to explain known facts as I see it, not introduce false ones.

It's like the difference between saying "I think Michael Jackson molested those children because he has the psyche of a child" and "Micheal Jackson beat those children with a wodden stick." One is an opinion, and the other is baseless, unverified rumor.

Am I splitting hairs? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Like I said, it's my opinion -- my interpretation. It's not necessarily true, and it's not necessarily false. Take it or leave it.

I think I'll leave it thanks

I don't know, you don't know, we all don't know, so let's just shut the hell up

It's called a message board. Duh. And by the way don't tell me you don't have your own opinions about what happened and why. I'm just writting mine down. So no, I'm not going to shut up... :rolleyes:

Yeah no shit it's called a message board. Duh. Of course I have my own opinions about this, I have already shared them.

Sorry I know you are taking your turn in this, I apologise, but it's just all this talk, it's what has caused the arguments, the tension, the hurting on this board. The sooner this is over the better, the sooner something is out from the band the happier I will be, look I apologise again, this has just really got to me today for some reason.

I think its a very good way to look at things. I personally think that Brian was a very good bass player, and the band sorely missed him when he left. I have also grown tired of Stapp, and think it would be very cool to see Mark, Brian, and Flip together again. Right now for all I care, Stapp could fall of the face of the earth and the only thing that would remind me of him is a very good MOP cd. But the one thing we do know is that something went wrong, and somebody left the band. It's just that the wrong somebody left the band. But I digress...

No Thanks!
 

Speculate all you want......I pass on this one.

oh haley girl you took the words right out of my mouth THANk YOU :D :D

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No problem, I understand. As far as the other guy goes, I would not go so far as saying I hate Scott Stapp.... It's just that ever since Chicago I think of him in a different light. I really wish that Creed gets back together in the future (with all the members), but I think the only way it will happen is if Stapp becomes more emotionally/physically stable and defers more control to the other members of the band.

:deadhorse

It just get's too much sometimes

i know

Ever since Chicago, I haven't lost respect for Stapp, I just feel sorry for him. Let's not even mention Chicago.

I know this is you sharing your opinions, but how can you say, "I think the only way it will happen is if Stapp becomes more emotionally/phisically stable" :wtf: Come on dude, you don't see it all behind the eyes of the band. You can't see into the hearts of their personal lives. You can't say that, if Stapp hasn't been "Emotionally and physically stable" Don't you think they would have left and done solo albums much more quickly than this? It just doesn't make sence to me what you are trying to say, how you are interpreting these things.

because haley shes a dumb :censored:

Uh-oh lol

Makes a lot of sense to me... I don't claim to know his heart -- nobody can but him. I'm just looking at what's happened. Were you at the Penn State Show? At Chicago? Haven't you noticed Stapp's voice faltering over the past few months? The fact that Mark/Stapp aren't talking to each other? The fact that the band is separating? I also think the amount of (dis)respect they get in the "rock community" is another factor that perhaps caused the separation. We all know fans and non-fans realize that Stapp has a bit of an ego... don't you think it's *possible* that it might be a factor?

Hey, I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm an old school Creed fan, but I'm not afraid to speak my mind. Oh, and creedsister, I'm a 24 yr old male. Not female. ;)

You spelled separating correctly.....matter of fact I think that you spelled every word in your post correctly. I think I love you. :cool:

Huh? lol ;)

That's the thing, maybe you shouldn't think out loud so often.

No, I didn't go to Chicago, I live in New Zealand. I haven't heard any live concerts by Creed over the last few months, any interviews, or any recent audio from Scott Stapp, so I obviously wouldn't be able to notice his voice faltering.

The fact that Mark and Stapp aren't talking...fuck, here we go again. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, SO JUST LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE!!!

And I don't think that it's a possibility, no, not really. The "rock community". Creed have had alot of critics, alot of bashers over the years, they have taken alot of crap for what they do, you think that some "disrespect" would worry them and lead to a break up? I seriously doubt it.

Thinking out loud is great, especially on message boards. If you don't like me thinking out loud, why reply? It just gets me thinking more. :D


You'd understand a little more if you were there. Penn State show too. The show was one thing, but Stapp's subsequent voicemails and letters to reporters, plus his appearances on shows like the Abrams Report -- where he completely denied being intoxicated and that he was just "expressing" himself -- was quite telling of his nature, as far as I'm concerned. Judging from that very high-profile and serious incident/response, I would conclude he's the kind of guy that doesn't like to admit he's wrong. Did that nature contribute to Creed's separation? I think it very well could have.


Well, if you believe Mark's brother (i.e. the info surrounding the Creed separation), then you have to believe everything he says. Micheal said that both Stapp and Mark "have gone their separate ways." Sounds fairly cut-and-dry to me.



Come now... if you're a musician and you consistently get negative reviews and popular *hatred* (not just disrespect) from a lot of rock fans, you don't think it has any effect at all? I think it had at least something to do with it.

:ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: :horseshit

I didn't say that you shouldn't think out loud, no kidding that's what message boards are for, but maybe you shouldn't think out loud as often as you do.

Conclude, conclude, conclude. Is that really all you ever do? So maybe Stapp doesn't like to admit he's wrong. I haven't really taken that into consideration and thought that maybe he's one that acts like that, I highly doubt it, but you can think what you like.

Yes but there's more to it. Things that we don't know.

Oh, you are talking about disrespect from the fans! I thought you were talking about getting that from the critics, etc. But wait a second, wait a second. You have picked up hatred, and disrespect from the fans. How much "hatred" have you picked up on, exactly?

There's no hatred and disrespect toward Scott, Flip, OR Mark, from true fans on this board. I know you didn't exactly mention this boad, but I'm just saying

thats right

Sure. But we've been told they have gone their separate ways. And if I'm not mistaken I think he also said they weren't talking (which is implicit in "separate ways" anyway). So that part is true.

From the critics and a lot of ROCK fans. Perhaps it's not that way in NZ, but there are tons of (dumb) people out here that simply HATE Creed.

Brilliant :rolleyes:

oh yes my sweet but not as brilliant as you oh can i please add you on my buddy list or better than that how about your Aim

:confused:

please do me a favor and shutup tonite which i know you wont But I promise i will always get the last word inn Just go and do something else really ive had it with you your like an insect that wont go away

I don't recall Michael saying that Stapp and Tremonti were not talking? Did I miss something there? Maybe he did, and I just missed out on that post.

There are defenitly Creed haters in New Zealand, plenty of them. So, what's your point? You think that Creed are going to be worried or bothered about people that hate them? Remember the saying, "Love us, or hate us". They don't care, that's the least of their worries. We, as fans, don't pick out EVERY SINGLE damn fault that our boys do, just the major ones. Or the ones that we feel are major. But we don't disrespect or hate them for that, we are just pointing it out to discuss the matter, to talk about it. No one is perfect, not all of Stapp's comments are going to be good, but that's life, and that's a fact. If we don't talk about these things, share how we feel, then how are we supposed to see the full Stapp? Just because we see his faults and discuss them, doesn't mean we don't like him, doesn't mean we have lost respect for him, that's just bullshit. We still love him with all our hearts, always will, weather he does something we don't really approve of or not.

I'm mentioned stuff that's pretty major, I think.


Exactly...

Nicholas I know I am opening myself up for abuse but I have to agree that I have thought much of what you have said. I don't want to argue with anyone or get into it - but I do think it isn't wise to live with blinders on right now - there is something going on - it is serious -

as an aside it has always bothered me how Mark looked in one VH1 interview clip that they often ran on top of the OLB video when it was on the countdown - Scott starts talking about not being able to be away from Jagger for more than a week and it always looked to me that Mark was rolling his eyes with the crossed arms and such that you mentioned... always wondered what that was about - body language is the most powerful form of communication there is.

Well then what the hell are you moaning for

Wow, he would roll his eyes when Stapp mentioned that about Jagger? :eek: What's that all about.

I agree with you on that one, Julbright!