A good debate is one in which there is no winner or loser, just two parties who agree to disagree.

I'm not out to "win" or "lose" - just to enjoy the debate. Which I have immensely, and will continue to.

--*Rob

Oh, please, give me a break, Rob! Our society is so f*cked up! This country doesn't believe in anything but selfishness and greed.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

And you were accusing some of the Creed fans here of not wanting Chicago fans to have an awesome show. That's what I was addressing, not the fact that they were denied a great show. I'm already well aware of that. Read the friggin post before you flame away.

Debate: a formal CONTEST of skill in reasoned argument with two teams taking opposite sides in specified question.

Who is winning? Who is losing? We are all losing here, aren't we.

>>>And you were accusing some of the Creed fans here of not wanting Chicago fans to have an awesome show. That's what I was addressing, not the fact that they were denied a great show.<<

When you say to a fan who was at that show "So it was a sucky show, get over it" - you effectively discount their feelings and tell them that they don't matter. But they do. They matter - and that's what this lawsuit says - "we matter, we were there, the show sucked, we want it set right."

Wrong again, Rob. Read the posts from the few days after the Chicago show. We all felt terrible about what happened. We're not saying your feelings don't matter. You have a right to feel them, but at some point, you have to move on, that's what we were saying. I disagree that a lawsuit is the answer, especially months after the fact. If they were so upset, they could have filed the lawsuit in a more timely fashion. I think these people are looking for their 15 minutes of fame and I think their priorities are f*cked up.

Exactly!

Do a search of all the Chicago threads. There are several to choose from.

It can actually take MONTHS for a lawsuit to get filed. It may have gotten hung up in adminstrative bureaucracy. They may also have been trying to get their money refunded in other ways - somehow getting in touch with the band directly, and finally reached the end of the road except for the lawsuit.

I don't know for sure what their priorities are, or what. I'd love to hear direct from them why they are doing it.

But even if we heard from those people that all they wanted was their money back or to get a make up show - how many of you folks would believe them anyway? You're already all over me for speaking out - imagine what the reaction will be if you hear from one of them. Geez I can't even imagine. You'll just be all over anything THEY say just like you're all over anything I say. You're real quick to judge them "not real fans" without hearing their side of things.

--*Rob

As I said before, I know how the legal system works. This is not a complicated issue. It did not need to take months. And get off the cross already. Nobody is *all over you* for speaking out. We're debating, as you said. Or did you forget that?


Call me a cynic if you will, but I don't think a refund is all they are after.

:P eww, that´s disgusting!

That is gross:throwup:

I like your posts Rob!! My thoughts exactly. It is really sad that we cant debate this issue or express our opinions without being told to go away. We all love Creed, that is why we are on this site. You who dont agree feel like those of us who think Creed should have handled this differently are Creed bashers. I have seen it so many times before here, there are certain ones of you who think you own this site and have the right to be mean and nasty and tell people to get off when you dont like their opinion. This is a hot topic and I see it as people enjoying the debate--Not as being negetive and hating Creed. For me this issue will never change my love for Creed, they are awesome!!! To me they rule the music world, they are my all time very favorite band--AND--S.S. is hot, but I'm not going to be blind the their mistakes. Maybe until they make it up in some way to those fans and show them that they do care about giving them the show they deserve, I will be a little disappointed in them.

Crisstee, this isn't freakin CreedPit; nobody here thinks he or she *owns* this place. This is one of the most civilized boards there is, which is why I joined it. I resent being lumped into that supposed category simply because I've been a member for a while. If you're going to bash people, be specific; don't paint everyone with the same brush.
I've spent a good part of my day debating as well in a very rational manner sans name-calling.

Dogstar Im not bashing anyone. Im just saying that any time someone says something that others dont agree with they are told to go somewhere else. I dont think that is nice . I wasnt talking about you, if you look back a few pages you will see what I mean. I didnt really want to point people out but again I wasn't talking about you. I love to hear everyones opinion on this because everyone has something interesting to say. Like I said though some people get real offeneded when they hear something they dont like about Creed and feel the need to tell others to get off this site and go find somewhere else to be negetive. It truly should be some good conversation rather than people getting all upset.

I've been reading the threads all day, so I'm aware of what you said. That's fine that you don't think it's nice that some people are telling you or others with differing opinions to go away. I was simply stating that you ought to take up that issue with them and not paint all members here with the same brush. If you're not going to address/debate them directly, then you shouldn't criticize in generalities because it's not really a nice thing to do.

I think those people know who they are. Im not trying to be mean and I think I made it clear that I am only talking about a certain few. I am actually trying to be nice by not pointing people out. I just think it would be nice if we could discuss without being called Creed haters and bashers and all that nonsense.