Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

.

If you come back to my post youll see that I didnt say that especifically America was intolerant..btw...dont try to change my words here... (one person doing this is enough...two smell cowardice right?....lol)



I dont want that America does anything...really...but its too strange that US only recently (your governement..not the people...right?) had noticed certain countries and consequently decided to spread 'democracy' ??? :rolleyes:

Seriously, despite all your excellent knowledge in History -- what was your familiarity with Afghanistan before the invasion/war ???

Kwait???? Of course not...it has oil...isnt it?


Yeah..

Of course I got what you meant...Im a woman...Im intelligent ;)...lol





Well we live in a society...you have to cohabit ...so you need some rights and rules to make them work...


Its amazing the way you try to avoid answering my questions...I want that you say what are social rights? Simple question....




;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Duped twice? Please don't tell me you consider going after the Taliban regime (the government directly behind the funding 9/11) duping the American people. C'mon... America is at least allowed to defend itself.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

So theres some possibilty ...well who knows? But anyway.. Bush still has lots of time to think (does he think?) about it...:rolleyes:

Also...you chose Bush for the second time...so its not so hard ...lol

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

this politic stuff is a languge i cant grasp i try and puts me in a oblivion so help me, i dont know one country from other :D you know what really ticks me off When I See These Big Flyers SAYING Pray For Our Country NOT THAT IT DOES NOT NEED IT, They send all our good men to war of course and make heroes out of theme and use theme to feed their hunger and laugh behind their back Not Public of course No they will give up and give their speaches of houner and respect to the poor victims and urge more to fight for the country... I Do Pray For Our Troops And Prisoners And I Know GOD IS BEHIND THEME ALL, Not Thir Country By No Means

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Sister...I think I *almost* got what you meant...:D

lol

Seriously politics is much more easy to me than your...hun...language..lol

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

:d

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

As stated in the quote of Wikipedia before the Arabs/Muslims were very tolerant towards pilgrims/pilgrimages, except for the brief period in which one leader wanted to destroy all the churches.

Also would you call it a defensive war now if Christians tried to take Jerusalem from the Jewish nation Israel? Was it a defensive war when Israel took it from the Palestines? If you have a religious claim on a city/area is it always defensive to take it back?


I already agreed that the status of early islam was very aggressive and could be considered war-mongering. The expansion of this religion in early days was almost always though conquest. I also agree that there was a certain state between the 2 religions that was open war at times and could be considered a cold war at other times, but in that light was the letting pilgrims come to the 'holy country' a sign of tolerance by the muslims. Although it would always be a hazard, just like in the wild west it would always be a hazard to travel through indian land, peace treaty or not, I suspect.


Actually I read up on most of the other history of the crusades yesterday on wikipedia, and I think it was the third crusade (out of 9 in total) that totally ransacked (sp?) the city of Constantinopel (present day: Istanbul), with the reason that they considered the there leading Eastern Orthodox church also heretical.

And about the land, once again, I do not consider a religious claim to be anything that could make you claim a defensive status in a war, but I think we have to agree to disagree on that.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I wouldn't say that the USA is intolerant, but I surely would not say that it is too tolerant.

There are certainly more tolerant countries, but there are undoubtedly much more intolerant countries.

I think especially in the bible belt, there could be more tolerance toward homosexuals, or for that matter anyone who aspires any other relationship than the traditional family type, and people with other worldviews.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Well as Ana said, the re-election of Dubya proved this statement wrong.

In regard to Dubya starting another war, I don't think even he would be dumb enough to try that, unless indeed provoked by another 9/11 scenario, in which case the cry for revenge would have to be answered by any political leader. Otherwise he knows that the American military is too stretched already by the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq and also the extra costs of another war could not be made clear to the American public without any direct attack, both in money and in human lifes.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

So actually the USA did not enter the war in Europe just to help us out, they were declared war upon by the Germans?

I have to agree that the decision of the USA to enter the war in Europe was probably the deciding factor there, but if 'you had just dealt with Japan' and Europe would have become a total nazi-state, it would have become much harder for the USA too later on, I presume, to beat them. So it was probably a good tactic to join the effort in Europe.

Oh, and it may be true that the Lusithania was British, but the USA entered the war because many American passengers died, I believe.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I asked you what you thought our problem was and you said intolerance, didn't you? Or am I going insane...





Well like I said...I don't agree with this war.


Quite a bit actually. Unlike %99 of Americans, I knew who Osama Bin Laden was BEFORE 9/11...


Most Middle Eastern countries do.





But we created society. How do you know society isn't a problem to begin with?



I can't list every social right I think we deserve. I think we all need to be able live as those created in the image of God should live. But that comes from my religious beliefs. If I had no religious beliefs, I probably would not be able to talk about what I "believe" about social problems.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I disagree. I think the elecetion of Bush again came from a total lack of a countering candidate (Kerry? please.), and the thought that Bush would never be able to marshall support for another war, and the fact that Kerry supported this war to begin with too! So I think Bush getting elected again was not the result of people's happiness with the war but with a lack of a better candidate.


Well if one believes, abortion, contraception, engaging in homosexuality etc. etc. are wrong, certainly one could think that the U.S.A. is too tolerant? The world for that matter.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

...

You are probably going insane.. (jk)...because when I wrote WE --I was clearly considering the human beings as a whole....I didnt say especifically 'Americans'...sorry if you didnt catch it...:rolleyes:


Well...this is why I love you!! ;)


So you are helping me to confirming my theory...americans know nothing about what is 'outside america'...




And most of the Western countries want it...;)



I dont know if its a problem..proabably is... .but we live in society...so we need to live using and respecting rules and having socual rights...




You know that I dont have ' religious beliefs' ..hum..like you...right? but I still belive in social rights and Im sure Im able to talk about them...why not?

See ...you are being intolerant...:rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Ah I see. Sorry for my misunderstanding.




Only because of my political views? Doesn't this make you intolerant of those who don't have my views? lol jk




No no no, you don't geti it. Americans don't know anything PERIOD!!! Inn a poll conducted the other day, only 1 in a thousand people even knew what five rights the first ammendment to the Constitution gives them. tons of people thought one of the rights was the right to own a pet! The vast majority of americans, thanks to this pathetic excuse for a school system we have, are totally lacking in knowledge.






Yeah. Well, one thing I DID agree with Bush on is that we are addicted to oil.





If society is a problem shouldn't we fix it or get rid of it and make something new instead of just dealing with it?





Well you may have a few beliefs but where do they come from?


I'm very tolerant of those in error. I know they are in error and won't compromise on that, but I do not persecute them for it.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I pretty much agreed with everything you said up until this comment. What of the colonial period, particularly in Africa?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

no, that is most definitely not a Christian view. if that's the way you see Christianity, I am deeply sorry for whatever you have experienced that has made it such. Political Christianity, as used by Bush and crusaders, is not truly Christianity. I won't get into it too much in this forum, but loving one another is at the heart of the religion. So, it is very un-Christian to be secluded in your "happy way of life" and to not care if something doesn't directly affect you. Yes, that might be how states that are historically Christian might act, but the fact that the U.S. doesn't act unless acted upon doesn't stem from its Christian roots. Instead, our country was isolationist, really, up until the Cold War, so we have a good 200-300 years (including the colonial period) of not caring entirely too much what was going on in the Eastern Hemisphere.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

i would hardly consider that humble lol


ditto



that's why i don't like Bush so much anymore. this approach that he and his cronies use is dangerous in international politics. much like radical islamists will experience backlash for their views, i expect that, if it hasn't happened already (int'l opposition to the war in iraq), the u.s. will again have substantial difficulty in currying int'l favor.

I assume that, in regards to the U.S., you don't mean true conservatism. Conservatism, at least over here, indicates a desire for a smaller federal government, states' rights, and little government invasion of privacy. In this regard, Bush is certainly not politically conservative, only socially conservative (neo-conservative, as you may well know).

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

yesssssssssss! i love it! i can't stand it when i hear or see people of a more liberal moral persuasion deride me for being "intolerant," and, in the same breath, tell me that my beliefs are essentially wrong. helloooooo, irony! at least because i'm an absolutist, i can tell you you're wrong, and not have to worry about making statements that are antithetical to my beliefs lol.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

you're kidding me, right? Bush, Rummy, and Cheney might not be the brightest fellows, but I think they would realize that starting another war in which treaties and alliances are the reason for starting it (Taiwan, Israel, S. Korea) would probably kill the Republican party. In fact, as we're seeing inthe latest domestic issues--wire-tapping and UAE-owned ports--many Congressional Republicans are willing to disagree with Bush. The key here is that we have a fairly evenly-divided House and Senate, and Republican losses in heated districts and states in both '06 and '08 will obviously affect the future direction of the country. Plus, Congressmen who stand by Bush on such divisive (or even highly unpopular) issues seem to be headed back home next year.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Ana & Stephen: I think you'uns (that is evidently an Ozark word indicating the plural "you") are at odds over the issue of intolerance simply because you're discussing different kinds of intolerance. Socially speaking, the majority of America is rather tolerant. Watching MTV or Bravo or HBO for a couple of hours will dispell any myths that we aren't. Yes, there are those, such as the KKK, who aren't particularly open to social change, but American culture, as a whole, allows for just about anything.
Politically speaking, however, President Bush at least conveys an image of intolerance. The Bush Doctrine--"you're either with us or you're against us"--is quite apparently intolerant of opposition. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the whole American political system is intolerant. It has adapted substantially over the years to changing social circumstance, so I don't see any reason why it will in the future. It just seems that some politicians, such as Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rummy, Bush, etc., are stuck in a Cold War mentality.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

this isn't exactly a new concept. all throughout the Cold War, the US used operatives in Latin America and Asia to bring about democratic change in certain countries, to "save" them from having a socialist or communist regime. we even supported corrupt bastards like Chiang (RoC/Taiwan) in an effort to prevent the spread of communism.


ohhh, oil... evidently, that's our only motive for doing anything internationally. if we wanted oil, we would've gone in all by ourselves. if I'm not mistaken, the UN saw Saddam pulling some pretty illegal shit. Article 51 of the UN Charter says that one state has no right to abrogate the territorial sovereignty of another state. Iraq invaded another state in an effort to reclaim a former province. What if we (the world) just let that happen? Then you would see China immediately try to take back Taiwan (they did nothing with their UNSC vote on Iraq in the '90s, but chose to abstain instead). By not doing anything in Iraq in '91, the UN would have essentially rendered itself useless by not punishing a country who directly violated its charter.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Gezz... Ryan....lately you are misenderstanding all of my comments here...actually I was being ironic with uncertain about the christian view...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

One slight disagreement... I don't think the majority of Republicans oppose the wire tapping. They way they look at it is if someone is receiving calls from certain terrorist hotbed regions of Afghanistan... then the government has the right to know who it is you're talking to. I think the majority of the nation still sides with Republicans on issues... especially with the surge of liberalism within the Democratic Party... and with the antics of people like Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Joe Biden, Chucky Schumer, and Nancy Pelosi the Democrats are only hurting their chances. I honestly think the Republicans will wrap up the '08 election if John McCain runs... I don't think someone like Hillary Clinton stands a chance against him.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

... used operatives in Latin America tobring about democratic changes incertain countries??
oh its amazing! and of course ... very democratic!!!!! .... supporting dictatorships that killed thousand of innocent men and women in Latin America--some of them maybe had ' affinity'.for comunism system ---but most of them were common peole taken away by the militaires to suffer all kind of torture ...like teachers, journalists, students, priests...common people who simply disappeared...because someone decided that they needed to save those countries before they become communist...
Very democratic!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

.[/quote]

whats happening, Ryan? I remmeber you saying to Chase that Iraq was invaded becuase of oil...but anyway...youve must changed your mind...:confused:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Allright...I forgive you... :D
lol





Actually I must be very tolerant to say this...:D lol



That 'one' was you???? --lol

Actually I think that education is in a bad moment in everywhere:( ... especially public education ...because our (in a whole concept not only american--please!) wise politicians are much more interested in economics and consequently forget education...




Well.. seems he knows what hes talking about ...he sent soldiers to invade Iraq...right?:rolleyes:






Suggestions???


Have you ever heard about FAMILY?????


.

Oh you are a very tolerant person....;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I agree. I'm a democrat, but would be 100% behind McCain. Besides, we're practically neighbors. I live about a mile away from him.

And it's looking more and more that it might happen:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...money0302.html

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

No prob....actually in average I think we are very 'tolerant ' to each other...:rolleyes:


You said everything. ;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Wow! I think Chase will ask for your address...lol...seriously...do you have a pic of him ? I think I never saw him in pics or at Tvs(and Im too lazy to look for it :D) ...:confused:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

I think there's one with that link...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

What ABOUT the Colonial period?

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

:rolleyes:


Puh. I don' think you are very tolerant with Bushie, are ya.





Nah. I have never participated in a poll... would be fun, though.


Its not just that. Politicians often just pour money into education without any type of plan... or at least, in America.






Huh?




Can't fix the problem until you identify it.




sorry. That doens't work. getting your beliefs from your parents only pushes the question back a generation. where did they get their beliefs becomes the new question. Can't just say family. All you are doing is continually pushing the question back.



Thank you for noticing.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

hahaha...:D



Well being tolerant with you is one thing (even though isnt an easy thing---lol)...but with Bush...:eek: lol






Would be awesome! You could show your abilities to the world...;)



No, you are wrong... they certainly have a plan: keep people ignorant...its their plan...here or there..its the same plan .;)







What????





What did you ask?? Honestly I cant remember...sorry :confused:






We all live in society...our families live and learn obviously trhough the others genereations...do you want to me to answer "God"? Im confused...you confused me ...:D



You know...Im the tolerant person here!!! ;)

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

in our government's eyes, it used any means necessary to ensure that a government that was communist in name or that was endorsed by the U.S.S.R. did not come to power. i'm not saying it was terribly democratic of us to do that. i'm just letting you know that Bush wasn't the first politician to say democracy needs to be supported by the U.S. in key areas around the world; he's merely the most publicized.

I think we're talking about 2 different instances of Iraq. In my post which you just now quoted, I was referring to the first Gulf War. Whenever I made that comment to Chase in another thread, it was more than likely in reference to the current Iraq War. Just because the same country is in question (Iraq) doesn't mean all the circumstances surrounding it are. I, therefore, am I entitled to come to two wholly different conclusions regarding these two very different wars (and, most importantly, the circumstances leading up to them).

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

evidently we can't use our knowledge of history to draw our own conclusions :rolleyes:

but, seriously, when European states (Britain, Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands) moved into Africa, it's really no secret that Christianity was basically forced upon the "pagan" natives. Religious organizations from those colonizing states played a key role in setting up colonial governments and, more importantly, education systems. Because of these rigid controls, the vast majority of Africans living under the various colonial administrations had Christianity forced upon them. Even today, the "brand" of Christianity practiced in most parts of Africa is blended with various rituals culled from the African Traditional Religions (the general name for the multitude of local and tribal religions), such that African Christianity differs a great deal from that practiced in the U.S. and Europe.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Your statement amazes me...and its not because Bush...( I do know hes not the first to say this... ) :rolleyes:

Look..you are going to be minor in History isnt it? Do you really believe in this role that US has? I mean...spreading democracy in the world throughout wars your country is involved ???? Is this the first reason ???

).

Yeah now I can see that...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

whats happening, Ryan? I remmeber you saying to Chase that Iraq was invaded becuase of oil...but anyway...youve must changed your mind...:confused:[/quote]

That's because the U.S. didn't invade Iraq for oil! Unless you can show me proof... I'm not going to believe your accusations.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

What? Like fighting for Cuba's freedom from Spain, like liberating the Chinese, Koreans, and Filipinos from Imperial Japan? Like ending Hitler's rampage through Europe? If it wasn't for war... the political landscape of Europe and Asia would be very different. War sucks... but at times is necessary.

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Okay...but forget the WWII for one moment and try to put some recent examples...

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Well Chase ..you wont believe in my accusations...because I dont have proof...right?okay.. but how did you believe in Bush's accusations of Iraq having nuclear weapon if he didnt show any proof? :rolleyes:

Re: "Americans kill dozens of prisoners"
 

Im very curious, Chase....you quoted my post above but didnt comment it..can you answer me why??? :rolleyes:

.