IMPORTANT: Possible Draft to begin in June 2005
 

This story is courtesy of: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/...ua_congressorg

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Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005

There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.

$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.

The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.

College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft.

The public has a right to air their opinions about such an important decision.

Please send this on to all the friends, parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, and cousins that you know. Let your children know too -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change!

Please also contact your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and contact newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.

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H-D :pimp:

let's just hope Bush doesn't get re-elected

That sucks :eek:

I just wonder if I could get out of it with my legal Canadian citizenship??? I have dual citizenship between the USA and Canada (Canadian mother, American/Canadian father), and because of that, I MAY be able to get out of it. I'm just not sure if there's laws registrating which country one is currently living in. Of course, the Armed Forces may not accept me because I take medication for depression & anxiety. Let's just hope this whole thing gets overturned.


H-D :pimp:

yeah

so does that mean women over the age of 18 now must sign up for selective service as well? because that would definitely be nice. you also answered my question about using college as an excuse.
and i wouldn't mind seeing it overturned, but if it goes through, and i end up getting drafted, i'll finish out my semester at school, and join the military. my only fear would be of being severely wounded, but still living. somehow, the idea of not living as i did before, fully functioning, doesn't appeal to me. we'll see what happens.

Oh Dear God, I hope this doesn't go through. It would be Vietnam all over again.

When will the world learn, that peace does not come as a result of war.

War breeds war.

This terrifies me..I have brothers and friends in that age group and I am proud of any man or woman serving our country in the military but like Whitebird said another Vietnam...
I cab see why they overturned the college excemption and tighted borders, Vietnam was called the poor man's war...it was a travesty!!

As far as I am aware, men are required to join the selectice service when they turn 18, and for women it is optional. I'm sure women in the SS will be drafted.


H-D :pimp:

You guys are making too much of a big deal abouit this. Fuck, unlike many of the chicken shits running around, I went out and got my SS card.

i havent gotten mine in the mail yet

yeah, i know males over 18 are req'd to join the SS, but i wasn't sure that, b/c the article mentioned that, in the spirit of equality, women would be drafted as well, that women were gonna hafta sign up for the SS as well. i got my card in my wallet, it's so beautiful!

It is possible that the draft might come back because of the lack of "voulenteers", but it maybe political sucide for the politicians who endorse it, so it is kind of iffy...it may all hing on if Bush monkey gets elected...if he does there is a greater chance...


if they do begin the draft they will start with men (and maybe women) 18 to 25...

When will the world learn that by having so many damn kids they just keep breeding those ideals of violence and hatred? Just by standing down on the draft there is not going to be peace. I would think some of the country would understand the sacrifices every soldier, whether or not they were drafted, fought for America's freedom back in the 60's. And maybe with a more interesting president than Carter, one WITH personality, the rest of the world WILL understand what those in the war ARE doing for us and not against us. We can go to work every day, drink a coke while sitting on a nice swing, and relax, or go on with the busy hussles and hectic crap at work, BUT WE ARE NOT THE ONES FIGHTING OVER THERE! Just b/c it may be your son that is drafted, does NOT mean that son isn't doing something right. And just because the fear of loosing a son, husband, or brother over there that didn't want to go there is a possibility, so is the problem of the fear of death. Death is mysterious so naturally a lot of people are afraid of it. And if society is afraid of it, they don't face reality. Death is also required to make points in the world, it's not a pointless ideal. Independence is still allowed for those drafted. It's just in what type of soldier they are or what they will do to try and avoid being drafted. If it is anyone who should be drafted, it's the rich, not just the everday son. For they are the ones who can pretty well use their money anywhere for almost anything, and that's a hell of a lot of freedom they got without the grief of war. I'm known for contradicting and if I did, I'm just myself. Peace out, Creedsters.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" It seems that people forget the meaning of these words.

AMEN!

Uh, I know that. I also know that war is NOT killing. It is where those citizens in it are fighting for OUR country to keep the freedom! To I have to KEEP explaining why? You want the independence then continue walking everyday and ignoring what those soldiers are dying for. Let this country turn into this communism. See how a socialism is too. And another thing, when some are drafted, they are those who don't want freedom for others and are too selfish to care about the sacrifice our soldiers give up for this country. And for those who are drafted and die, in a positive note, more are left that support this country. So if it is "thou shalt not kill", then it is also that they aren't being MURDERED! The bible is against murder. Look at it. There are wars in it, it is not against war. Peace out folks!
And remember I contradict myself.
And another thing, if we're going by the Bible. The end times are war and if it keeps breeding itself, good. Then the Bible is right.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

- John Stuart Mill

Sorry, Torn... but this war has nothing related to "fighting for our country, our freedom" as you say...

It was supposed since the beginning to oust Saddam, to finish the job that dad didn't have the chance. Now it all turned into a big mess, where US don't know what to do because Bush & Staff THOUGHT it would be a lot easier.

Before it all started, I always agreed it was necessary to oust Saddam, but that was bad timing. Besides, the focus should be Osama, Al-Qaeda and North Korea. Iraq would fade by itself.

Now who's paying the bill? You and Iraqi civilians, while Mr. Bush is confortable in his office, where he's safe, planning his re-election.

I agree with Mulletman. AND HOW IS IT NOT FOR FREEDOM! Look at SEptember 11 and ALL THOSE WHO DIED! Thousands! It's not total Bs that it is a redo of daddy's war. But daddy's war wasn't bad either b/c it is trying to STOP the terrorism we are receiving over here. Don't say sorry, Torn, it has nothing to do with freedom, because maybe to me it does. Maybe to those soldiers it does. We would NOT be where we are if we didn't go to Vietnam b/c then the political mess you are mentioning wouldn't be happening. Our screw ups make our history which helps make us better in the future. You couldn't even listen to music for a leisure time in Iraq and now we can. If Bush wasn't the president, more deaths due to terroism would have happened. I highly doubt Gore would have been for the war and the same for Kerry. He went over to Vietnam as a volunteer, fought, and came back to protest it? Isn't that a bit odd? If we go to the discussion of party politics, we go to the discussion of trying to get peace.
As Whitebird said, war=war not peace. Well, we had revolutions in this country, we had the civil rights. That was an at home war. B/s the little prejudice acts or killings ever so often, minorities have freedom HERE! War is necessary, and so is the draft. Freedom fighting over there is happening. Perhaps it is that we live in a republic and on't understand a dictator sort of leadership.
Peace out.
Torn Signs.
(I contradict myself.)

This war is feeding terrorism. It gives you more reasons to people to hate your country. The war is everything Bin Laden wanted. the hate for US increases in that region and he can recruit more and more for his service.

Besides, as far as I know, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. People said it had but no evidence was found. Nor the so called mass destruction weapons.

The WAY it has been done was wrong since the beginnig.

There are some in this world, who are born with love, peace and an understanding of the basics between God, man and nature.

We feel a balance and harmony, that seems lost on others. Don't tell me I don't understand, perhaps I understand better that you will ever be able to comprehend. I have seen much in my lifetime, and learned from both wonderful experiences and horrible. I make a choice, not always easy, to follow the ways that I have known to be true.

"War is not killing", rationalize that one to someone else! Your words, are why hate, war and prejudice persist in this world.

Angry words from an angry person.

"What If" you could feel what I feel? Would you still chose your way of anger, and hatred?

So let me get this straight: by what you are saying, it would seem that if you were in a country that was bombed, and your family died in the explosion, you would not say that they were killed? :confused: Or, if in a war, you shoot someone, you did not kill them?


H-D :cool:

If thats the case then I wouldn't be eligible to do it, cuz I'm half blind :laugh:

The war is not a mess. It's actually going quite well. More soldiers died in one day practicing for D-Day in WWII then have actually died in battle in Iraq. The so called "mess" is just the way liberals and the liberal media are portraying it. Sadaam was known to back the terrorism. He was known and openly paid families to suicide bomb and kill ppl in Jerusalem. Further more, if you read the bible, you will know that the Jews will never live in peace in Israel because they failed to protect the Holy Land as they were instructed by God several centuries ago. We lost more people on 9/11 then in both the Iraq and Afgahn wars. In addition terrorists are doing there things in Saudia Arabia. They're going to keep on with things just like Madrid and so on until we have defeated them everywhere. When you have people like Alquaeda and the Palestinians who are determined to kill others in the world, the only way to every achieve peace is by victory. The important thing is there is a very big difference in self defense which are the wars we have been fighting are and murder. The bombing of civilians, women, and children, IS MURDER, NOT KILLING! Ok. Bombings were MURDER! September 11 WAS MURDER! The first attempt at the World Trade center would have lead to MURDER! Nick Berg's beheading was MURDER and Alqueda in Iraq have taken credit for it. That's PROOF that the USA and Iraq are fighting THE war on terror. Whether or not you like it, terrorism is a world wide war and this idle thought of the United Nations and peace saving us all is pure bologna.
If you are stating that I am wrong, then MAYBE just MAYBE you have tried to point out that I have contradicted myself. And I STATED that it is possible. Like you Whitebird, I am only human. I make mistakes. But in answer to Higher Desire's question, the bombing of my family is not murder. Yes, it is killing. And to kill another soldier is not murder, it is killing. Try to understand what I mean by murder and killing. Murder is the unrightful death of a soul who should have lived longer. Killing is getting rid of someone who has sinned on this world. And by all means, WE ARE NOT JESUS, and have all sinned. Go ahead, loop d' loop by words against me like liberals. I don't care. I ain't standin' down. And I still follow God too, don't say I haven't been through crap or that I don't understand it. For only I am the one who knows everything I have been through. Thank God this world does not have mind readers.
Peace out ya all,
Torn Signs.
Remember I contradict myself. ;)

When I was young, and the Vietnam war was taking place, I was looking for my first job.

I had a conversation with a young man that told me the armes plant in our area was hiring. He said they were looking for people who would work on an assembly line to make land mines.

He said the pay was great, and if I didn't consider it, and took a job a min. wage, I was stupid.

I looked at this young man, knowing there was knowledge within myself, that I would never be able to explain to him. His brain, compassion, and spiritual knowledge did not reach the level of my own.

To this day, there are people that are blown apart by those land mines planted during those horrible times.

If I had decided to take money for constructing those vile tools, I would have damaged my own spirit. That, I understood in my young years.

Recently, I watched on national TV, a young woman who was in the current war, video taping from a prison camp. She expressed to the people watching the video, that she hated it there, and only wanted to receive a college education, which was funded by the government. She did not want to be there anymore, and her hatred for the situation was growing.

Her price for doing what she was doing, was the price of an education.

Does she not then consider herself bought?

If anyone, or a country benefits, from the distruction, or the deaths of others, does this not mean you have sold your self for personal greed or profit?

Freedom has many faces, look to your soul to understand the depth of truth.

I so understand what you are saying. I have words in me that I know others will never understand. Right now, I'm speechless, which is unusual for me.

I'm glad that you have the choice that you made the choice to not make those land mines. There is something else you aught to know. Land mines have been used on the DMZ between North and South Korea for the last 50 years to prevent the North from reinvading the South. The Korean war has never ended, there simply has been a cease fire. The land mines are helping that cease fire stay in place. I don't want to argue with those who don't want to fight or to make weapons. As a free country we allow that. You were allowed that.
But here's another thought. By saying that your mind was ahead of that individual who made those mines you are implying that he/she was the stupid one. You are saying you are above them. That goes into your selfish greed compartment. Aren't you being selfish when you are stating that you are better than that individual? EVERYONE is a bit selfish. That's part of being human. And we are not selling are souls by getting profit from the Iraqi war because it was that certain individual who chose to join the military to get those college benefits in the same way. That was her selfishness to try and use something the government offers to find a high paying job in this now screwed up society. She may have sold her soul as you said, but it wasn't when she got over there. It was when she thought that using the military to get a lot of money would help her butt. Yes, she was bought. Bought by everyone else in society's views of what money and wealth offers.
I take it, and don't yell at me if I'm wrong, that you are a Christian for your "Though shalt not kill" quote. If you are then maybe you should also understand as a Christian that Jesus said that he will provide us with everything we need to survive. That includes money, food, shelter, etc. And yes her price for doing what she was doing was education. Again, society. Society needs everyone to be brainiacs to get that cash and to be someone. You can't blame the war for taking away her benefits. Perhaps who you can blame is yourself or everyone else who falls under the needles of Satan and doesn't realize what God offers us.
What Gods intentions are, can be mysterious if the Bible isn't read. But we are to support and love life. The War in Iraq has that. The casualties help bring the freedom for those civilians who are still alive in the country. You need examples for what the Iraq war has accomplished, here:
1. North Korea-Threatened against neighbors and threatening with nuclear weapons has now come to its senses and the peace table since we started the war in Iraq.
2. Libya- Decided to turn a new "leaf' and has given up its weapons of mass destruction, nuclear programs since the war began.
3. Just this past week, one of the terrorist masterminds behind 9/11 was captured in Britain. He attended terrorist training with Massowi (who's on trial here and was caught in Minneapolis while trying to learn to fly airplanes). He also went through terrorist training with Reid. Reid was captured w/ the shoe bombs on the aircraft.
4. The Packistanis and India are now making peace agreements.
5. The Packistanis have now joined us in the war on terror.
We are actually making great progress in the war and as far as I am concerned, God is making great progress in letting his prophecies be true. If peace and this One world Government comes due to everyone wanting a Utopia, the end times are near.
Enough said until next time. Remember I contradict myself. Peace out everyone,
Torn Signs.
;)

Thanks Dogstar, I have always had great respect for you. From the first time I started posting here, I have valued the truth, compassion and depths of your words.

Torn Signs, you can twist your words any way you want. The truth stands!

I have chosen my path, with help from beyond.

What path have you chosen?

Thank you, whitebird, and likewise :hugs:

I have chosen to lead an honest life where I dig to find the truth. If that sounds ironic oh well. I'm a Christian and have been for a long time. If you don't want to believe the truth fine. My job is to tell it and fight for it, not to wait around and make sure everyone follows it.

This is gonna get real ugly real fast. Choose your words carefully. . . .

I second Mullet: you won't agree with each other, and that's the beauty of Free Will. This matter won't take you anywhere.

Whitebird: awesome words. Very wise. God bless you.

Thanks Marcos, what you said about the beauty of free will, is so very wise also.

If someone like myself were to be drafted, their free will would be taken away. Put into a kill or be killed situation, most would be killed, perhaps endangering others around them. If they did kill, their minds would be so damaged, they would relive the horror for the rest of their lives.

There are many soldiers, who spend the rest of their days in and out of mental hospitals, or destroying themselves with drugs, because they cannot live with what they have seen and done. What a sadness to know that they will never heal.

It is not a matter of bravery, in my own personal situation, that makes me believe war is wrong, but a deep love and respect for all living creatures, including man. Taking one life, to create freedom for another is something I cannot believe in.

Knowing what is right for yourself and your spirit is not something someone else can see, but what you feel inside.

If a draft were ever to happen in this country again, I would hope that the people making the final decisions would consider people like myself, and include them into a special area. Service to your country can take many forms, and there are many nonviolent areas that we could help.

Too many wonderful lives were lost in Vietnam due to random drafting.

See I dont fully understand what you mean by that, so I hope you dont mind if I ask. Are you refering to those with your mentality or outlook toward life, or everyone in general. I dont believe in killing but I know that somethings have to be done in certian situations. In our wonderful history no country has even been liberated, no race has ever been freed through plain prayer. That's why I posted that quote from Mill above. I know war is evil, but in most cases it is a necessary evil. I believe in making a sacrifice for the things that are right, justified, and that you believe in. The bible does state Thou shall not kill, but it does condone actions that are justifiable. This might not apply to those that are not catholic, but the Vatacan never condemed the war in Iraq. As a matter of fact, operations in Iraq never started untill after President Bush visited the Pope and got his 'permission' and Bush is protistant.

My father was an paratrooper, airborne sniper to be exact, and he made that choice to make a difference. His last tour was in Kosovo, during the height of the Milosavich conflict. I remember hearing from his buddies that they could smell the stench of death from the planes, thats how they knew the drop zone was close. Yea he got a front row seat to ethnic cleansing... you guys know what a river rat is? Well he told me of one time they had to cross a marshy field to take an objective. Well that field was nothing more than a mass grave, fresh one I might add. Imagine crawling on your stomach in a marsh about the size of two world cup regulation soccer fields filled with corpses. That is more than enough to make some cringe in disgust and others to cry. Everyone asks him the same question over and over again with a confused look on thier faces, and his responce is the same "Because it had to be done"

not to be an ass---- but it is "Thou Shall not Murder" not kill. Some people long time ago screwed the translation up...so that commandment does not apply here....

Torn Signs, I'll agree w/ you that the war and its portrayal to the American public has been very negative. just yesterday, at a local memorial day ceremony, my mom talked with the older brother of one of my sisters' friends. he has been over in Iraq for two tours of duty in the past 16 months, and said that it's very uplifting and moralizing (i don't if it's a word, but if "demoralizing" is, then this must be too) to know that the vast majority of Iraqis WANT the coalition forces there. My mom was, naturally, shocked to hear this, given the portrayal by the media over here. And I hate to be so negative-sounding about this, but death is a fact of war, and those who are upset at the loss of American life should give up being so damn selfish, for two reasons in particular. One: the soldiers are not drafted and joined the military on their own accord (just as, in the same way, whitebird, was able to not take a job making land mines). They should understand that one of the potential results of joining the armed services can be death. Two: we've enjoyed freedom as a people in every way for the past 200+ years thanks to the efforts of our military. Don't you think it's ridiculous to want to hide in a little hole while other people suffer at the hands of heinous dictators (Saddam Hussein).

and, not to be an ass to you, but i think that the same thing is being implied by either one: the causation of the death of another human being. who knows what the original Hebrew (that was the language of the OT, correct?) word/phrasing was, and what it meant... but it's still quite interesting b/c God seemed to allow the people of Israel go to war w/ the other nationalities in the time period.

Mulletman, fair question. Perhaps I should have said, too many wonderful lives were lost in Vietnam, period. Thanks.

I wish I could explain the person that I am to you. I truly seem to have born with a sensitivity to life that many others have never experienced. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else, as someone on this board suggested, only different.

Even as a small child, animals used to behave oddly around me, becoming hyper excited when ever I was near. No jokes, please. I seem to have a connection with life, which animals seem to be able to sense.

I can feel their fear, when they are hurt or upset, and I must tell you, it is very unpleasant.

To be put into a war situation where I encountered the fear and death of a person, whom I had personally hurt, or help to build a tool that would blow off the legs of little children running in fields, would be something that I could not live with.

Others make their choices, and must live with them also, for good or bad.

I regret that your Father had to experience the things that he did in war, but as you said, it was a choice that he made.

I greatly respect the right of all of us to express our views, differing greatly at times, and blending together at others.

Peace.