it's a good thing i just finished my gum, b/c i might've choked on it!

in the very least, you should admit it is inherently liberal, and that in a drive to reveal the most shocking news, it requires the media to stretch its First Amendment rights even further. though it may not always be intentionally liberal, i don't see the purpose in denying any existence of liberal bias.

and i know a commonly known fact about G-Dub's papa... he was almost too liberal for the Republican party, and it wasn't much of a shame when he wasn't reelected in '92.
i'm still in disbelief that people cling so lifelessly to Moore's "preaching"... I think it was Al who said it's preposterous. based on this, I refuse to see it. i will most certainly not pay for it. and while one might say it's because we're just ignorant conservatives, disinterested in expanding our horizons, i like to think of it as more of having a good nose for bullshit.
I usually like you Lith, but, seriously, to understand us, you have to walk a mile in our shoes. living nearly 1/2 a world away does not fall under that category. i'm sorry.
and i'll say it again: bush didn't mess up the economy. i remember, just over 4 years ago, on the campaign trail, he was saying we needed to be prepared for an economic recession. 9/11 only worsened that. and, much like the great depression, when one globally significant economy tanks, just about every other one does.

:clap: :clap: Amen my brothas! Well said.


H-D :pimp:

If you did not vote, then your opinion does not matter and you have no right to complain. With that being said, fact is he won the majority of the popular vote and the majority of the electoral vote. Majority of the country wanted him there, as minimal as the majority was, point being he got it. Now it was the people that clearly voted him in, not the court or anything else. For those of you outside the U.S. you say that your way of life has been jeopordized, unless you live in a van down by the river, shut up. You all live in great countries with a more than decent way of life, so shut up. You have nothing to complain about, unless you American soldier in your front yard, shut up.

No problem. I'm just standing up for what is right.

hear, hear

Tom Brokaw was on Letterman earlier this evening, and I believe he said something about, while the electoral vote was fairly close, the popular vote wasn't quite so much

I think I was reading the other day in our campus newspaper, a notoriously liberal editorialist who's in a polysci class of mine (he even sounds liberal, if ya know what i mean), made some comment in his weekly editorial about disliking people who make the "if you don't vote you can't complain" argument. except for, that's utterly false. this country's longevity is prolonged by the participation in the democratic process; the process is based on the ability of people to speak out. if you choose not to exercise this right, then your right to complain is diminished. if you're apathetic, that's not my problem. you're obviously not apathetic enough to take time to complain about something.

I think some of you are going a little too far in telling us non Americans to but out. This election result and the foreign policies of your government have an affect on countries around the world including my own. My country has troops in Iraq (with a country of only 20 million, I wonder why the hell for) risking their lives, we lost people in 9/11. Your country’s decisions effect my country’s decisions.

I have nothing against Americans or America and I'm not complaining that Bush won he won fair and square, but I think the world has a right to express their opinions on the subject.


lol

You guys are sad and blind! You know what, US desirves him!!

Yeah well, pretty close. Although I agree with you

BECAUSE his FUCKING war and stupid ideas have affected the whole world!! And I'm a citizen of this world! You just don't know how much affect this has on the rest of the world.

And oh, I believe Micheal Moore, yeah! And I'm fucking proud of it!

"It's the end of the world as we know it... it's the end of the world as we know it... and BUSH feels fine"

:(

Michael Moore , you have got to be kidding me he is as liberal as they come. Go to your nearest video store and rent Farenhype 911, it rebuttals every lie Michael Moore ever made up in that trash of a movie.

Bush didn't start this war, we didn't start this war, the terrorist started this war and we are making sure damn sure that we finish this war. Oh and if you enjoy your freedom all over the world, thank a soldier because they are dying for it, for you and me. The right man got the job. Our country the great UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is always helping other countries in trouble so I would suggest that you all love they neighbor because you never know when your 911 may occur and you need our help. GOD BLESS AMERICAl.

He's not the President of the world. Honestly, how much has Bush's Presidency affected life in Sweden? Come on... I know what the sentiment is in Europe... and I don't give a fuck. You are most likely just switching beliefs with the wind, going along with what your parents, friends, and the European media tell you. And Michael Moore is a socialist, and gladly admits it. Do you what that is? That is what Hitler believed in... Read "Michael Moore Is A Big, Fat, Stupid White Man." It is completely fact and reveals the true Moore.

Maybe one day you will learn to appreciate the man who is saving your ass as we speak.

Its not so much that we want the world to stay the fuck out, its just their reactions are a bit too farfetched. For someone who isn't directly affected by our policy, they seem to complain a lot more than Americans.

Meh! Get over it :rolleyes: Cuz he's in office for 4 more years and theres not a thing you can do about it!

The thing that i don't get is Bush as a person. You see, here in europe MOST of our leaders are intelectual humans. It seems to me that the american people want a simple man for a difficult job. The reason i don't like him is just for being such a big time cowboy, an all american guy. I'm not gonna say wether you should vote for the democrats, (which you should) But in the name of god, why did the republican party let Bush run for president in the first place back in 2000.

Well, the end of the story is that most people in europe were anti-bush, not anti- america, but now i'm really starting to doubt the intelect of a litlle bit more then 50% of the american voters.

First of all, that is a fucking stereotype.

We, AMERICANS, are affected by 100% of what the President does and we elected him. You are affected by maybe 2-3% of what he does. Stop your bitching. He honestly has no real effect on your life, you just like to put our country down and make everything dramatic. The war in the middle east is only a small part of our issues. We don't really care that much about it compared to you fucks. And our citizens are some of the smartest people on earth. Why do you think we have all the money and world influence??? What significant things has any European country done in the last few decades?

OH, HAHA, that's right.... NOTHING!






..... And one more thing. There is a reason my vote counted 1,000,000 X more than many of you in this thread. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GO SHOVE IT

Well, maybe your reaction is why i'm doubting your intelect.
But he, maybe Bush doesn't effect my life here in 'save europe', but i do care about others like poor people, like people in parts of the world where the policy of bush does have any affect.
and again, i don't mind that you are a republican, the only thing i mind is that you voted for bush.
And I thought he really was a cowboy!

president bush sucks! :mad1:

Alright. Go ahead and doubt my intellect. I am attending one of the greatest universities in the US (therefore in the world), my test scores have consistently in the top few percent in the nation, and I have been very successful in all of the work I have done. I have also donated a lot of my time to help my community and have toured the country with my choir, preaching the Gospel through song for all to many to hear. For a young person, I have been incredibly active in politics and will continue to do so.

If those are signs of a lack of intellect, then I am guilty.

Just because Bush comes across as simple and average does not make him such. I remember reading or seeing a joke about, how is it that Pres. Bush, who has likely never spent any significant time w/ Middle-Class or Lower-Class people (he went to an uppity pvt school, then Yale... etc), comes across as more an Average Joe than John Kerry, who, in the least, served in Vietnam? I was watching a show on PBS last week, and it said Bush has an objective IQ in the 95th %ile, and Kerry's "only" in the 91st. So, he's not that dumb. He's just not a great public speaker. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent, but my public speaking skills are lacking somewhat; does that make me wholly simple and downright stupid? No. People tend to associate public speaking skills with intelligence, which partly explains why Hitler became so wildly popular in Nazi Germany. And it's too bad you doubt our intellect. I call yours into question, saying that you would not advocate support of the Democrat party, then putting, in parentheses, immediately after the previous comment, that one should support the party. That's just absurd.

where do you go?

jeez, all this intellectual debate, then WHAM! unintelligent comment alert! unintelligent comment alert! unintelligent comment alert! at least explain yourself there fella.

Hellboy, it's fine to have a debate here, and I understand the passion you have about what you believe in, but I'd appreciate it if you could tone down the insults. Telling people of other countries to "shove it" and using nasty language is seriously unnecessary. If you are as smart as you claim to be, find some other less-nasty words to get your point across. Thanks.

OK, Dogstar, I'll try, but it's hard when people make comments like this. I am sorry for any name calling and will attempt to refrain from using such simple-minded retorts.

RMadd, I am attending Purdue University. It makes me sad because there are no Creed/Alter Bridge fans here that I can see :( .

OH, and I'm watching the Bush press conference and they just informed the President that Yasir Arafat has passed away. That's gonna make the middle east situation more "interesting"....

I do respect how John Kerry bowed out with a nice speech. You need to take his advice and lets all come together and support our President and lets all unite.

FoxNews is reporting that Arafat has not passed away yet. They have said that there are conflicting reports, and that their last report was that he was on a life support machine. He most likely won't survive, but he has not passed away yet.

And as Dogstar has said, Hellboy please try to tone down your comments. There's no need to tell people to shut the f up and such. :)

Out of respect for the polite people on this BB, I will. And yes, they said in the press conference that Arafat passed, but now they are denying that. Hmmmmmm... We shall see.

This i called a joke my friend!!!

ah, i see
usually, when in a debate as intense as this, i tend not to pick up on such jokes

LOL.
Dang. I didn't know that he was that close to biting the bullet.


Why does it seem that everyone is overlooking a big part of the picture. It's not entirely how WE feel about the war and what is happening to the soldiers, as it is how THEY feel about it. Many reports have been published about how about 75% of the soldiers support Bush, and nearly ALL of the soldiers support they war (whether for Bush or not) and feel strongly about what they are doing over there. Isn't that just as or more important than us who are sitting on our butts NOT over there, but rather complaining that we have a better way of handling things?

Here's another statistic for you: During the month of September, there were 36 US soldiers shot/killed in Iraq. There were 39 people shot/killed in Detroit alone.


H-D :pimp:

first of all, i'm not against the war in iraq. Saddam was a dictator he's gone, that's fine by me. But the americans went there for the wrong reason, there are no mass destruction weapons. So, go there cause you wanna remove saddam.
Second, I don't care about soldiers (doens't matter from which side they are) dying.
It's war, people die.
third, I don't care about the soldiers oppinion weither they support the war.
What you must not forget, is that there a people living in iraq, not only american soldiers.

My point still is, i don't think Bush is the right man in the white house.

Why don't you ask the Kurds if Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. And the planes they flew into our towers , and our Pentagon where filled with fuel they killed thousands of people. That to me was a weapon of mass destruction.

what has saddam to do with 9/11?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1248773/posts
and
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040303.asp

I have to question this statement...how many here have served in the military..??...once you are sworn in, you become the PROPERTY of the United States Government...as said PROPERTY you are expected to AGREE to any and all positions you will be put into in support of your GOVERNMENT...period, no opinions, or questions asked....your rights and choices are no longer yours to decide....or so they would like you to believe.

with that said, NO soldier who wishes to avoid being court marshalled will say or do anything other than what he/she has been TOLD to say/do. Keeping ones thoughts to one's self is also necessairy for morale reasons...

I'll give you that some of the soldiers may have said and feel the way you have posted, HD...but i will also guarntee that there are MANY MORE who quietly disagree with what is going on and have an opinion quite the opposite as to what is being "reported"...and most are doing what they have to to survive and be able to come home in one piece.

ehem


AHAHH HH HAHH AHAH AH HHH HAHHAH HAAH HHA H AHA HA H AHAHAHHA HHAAH HA HAH AHA H AHAHAH HA AHHA

OH MY GOD THATS FUNNY

America = #1 FATTEST country in the world, 1/5 people have obesity in some citys, Fucking mcdonalds owns the city, Fatties everywhere, canada has barly any obese people (only 3 kids in my ENTIRE School are obese) and only one is in my grade yet she is still popular
America = #1 CRIME COUNTRY
You people put locks and chains on your doors at all times, you have ghettos, there places where people get SHOT all the time.
(you ever seen bowling for columbine where moore cheaks the canadian doors and finds them all unlocked? Thats no set up, NOONE locks their doors here simply because NOONE in CANADA is stupid enough to fuck with other people) TO BAD in america its the exact opposite.

If your american and you go on a trip people throw shit at you because you suck,
IF your canadian and you go on a trip, everyone loves you, because EVERYONE LOVES CANADA.

Amercia = One of the most polluted and shit-infested countries in teh world.
Canada = THE MOST cleanest and polution free country in teh world with the SECOND LARGEST supply of freash water.

In america, hafe of everyone hates thier government and its always fucked up,
In canada literally everyone loves our prime minister and every one does a great job.

In america, people have guns, 20,000+ people die from gunshots whereas in canada 100+ people die and most are americans in Canada.
Rape/Kidnapping isnt common at all here, of course theres the odd wako, but compared to america is heaven.

America = IF you need surgery, be prepared to sell your house or die
Canada = "You need surgery?? Why come in free then!"

America = SHIT/ One of the worst countrys to live in
Canada = Greatness./ One of, if not the BEST country to live in.

Honestly, theres nothing america has over canada, and the great thing is, we dont give a fuck about war and weapons because we can just let america fuck their own economy up and protect us, so we can spend our money on things that actually matter like welfare fixing and free health care.


Oh and id love to put MY faith into a man who cant even speak properly, and a man who has murdered thousands of innocent lives so he can make some profit through oil. Canada dosnt do shit like that because thats in-human to want to profit on the suffering of millions, we are the kind peopel who actually strive for goodness in the world and not for self-profit that only helps US.

(america pulled out of Kyoto because they lost money saving our planets environment)(america puleldo ut of the world peace treaty because they didnt want to spend money on global stability) (america is shit, and there is nothing more to say)

America INVENTED The nuke, now they are whining about getting their shit runied by a few poor countrys that cant even hope to afford these weapons, Blah is all bullshit. America sucks, nuff said is what i shoulda typed, you patriotic bastards dont listen to reason anyways (which is why the war in Iraq is still being supported)

** sorry for the insults, but hellboy is a dumbass, (best school in america (therefor the world) is a comment that makes a man deserve to be shot)

Ann, with all due respect, you're not telling the full story. Yes you become property of the government and have VERY little, if any, say in your position when you enlist in the military. Key emphasis on the word enlist. My father servered in the Military for 10 years, because he graduated college in another country he had to enlist. Albiet he didnt have much say in what he could do, he was able to do something he liked. Me on the other hand, I am going to go through officer training. As an officer you have a shit load more freedom than an enlisted solier.

If an officer told these soldiers to say that, then I'd buy it. But the military is suppose to be unbiased. Meaning that no current soldier can publically campaign for ANYONE. With that being said, if an officer gave a direct order for such things being said, its his ass in a military tribunal.

Third, those people that pursue a career in the military feel the way H-D said. Those that have nothing else or want something better, or are hiding from something mostly go the opposite.


Oh snap! He brought out the National Review!

As for Dogstar's latest post. This goes for everyone. If you have nothing relevant to say DONT POST. Next FUCK BUSH, FUCK KERRY, GO FUCk Yourself comment will get you banned from this forum. If you cannot get you message accross withjout flagrant insults, you goin bye bye.

I understand where you are coming from, people like Lith are going a bit overboard (I like you mate but quoting Michael Moore is not going to get you anywhere, even if I agree with some of his points, he is biased in some areas)

I'm not going to come on here complaining, all I want to say is that I was dissapointed with the result and don't agree with peoples main reasons for voting Bush.

What has never sat with me well about the Iraq war is that it seems to me it was started up again to divert attention from the fact that Osama was alluding capture, why start a new war when you haven't finished another? Why is not all the military's attention (including my own county's) focused solely on capturing the person directly responsible for September 11 Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

This has nothing to do with anything. You bring McDonalds up, as if we have no choice. But ok, I'll bite.


The reason we have so much crime is because we welcome all kinds of people, rich or poor. Same reason we have more diseases than any other country in the world. But we also have cures for most of those diseases.


There is nothing to justify that Moore comment. But if you think Canada is great, ok. Canada has the LARGEST drug problem in the world. More than any latin american country or any other country for that matter. Drug lords in Afganistan are getting rich from the worlds largest consumer in the world, and it ain't us. Your military and law enforcement are on the verge of banktrupcy, which means that soon you will have problems being safe. Canada is the UN first choice in peace keeping situations. Keep that in mind when theres no money for your military.


Right. You've never left your house, have you?


Refer to #2


Sure, why not.


Its not the fact that we have guns that is the problem, but who has the guns.


If it were not for the US, Australia and others, Canada wouldn't have that.


Like I said, you've never left your house, have you?


There isnt enough room on here to justify that answer.


Canada is America's red haired bastard step child to the north.


This has been said before, its not that other country's cannot have these weapons. Any country that wants one can create one. Its when those country use such weapons or any weapons for that matter to threaten its people, its neighbors, or its enemies - that is when your rights have been revoked, and must give up your weapons.

you are right, Mullet Man, i didn't make myself as clear as i could have...but yes, OFFICERS do have a lot more freedom than regular enlisted personell...altho, many enlisted personell are just as intelligent as the officers, and that is why some are in the military because they could not afford to have mommy and daddy to send them to college, and they chose to enlist as a "means to an end"...


again, you are correct...the military is SUPPOSED to be unbiased...and no officer would KNOWINGLY tell someone what to say to the press to put the "effort" in Iraq into a good light...and it will be deneied to the end, and that these soldiers were speaking of their "own free will"... ;)


well, of course if an Officer or "grunt" chooses to be a lifer, they are going to feel the way that HD said...because it is condusive to their positions to say that...

btw...congrats on going to OTS...you will have a whole new world to learn about once you are comissioned and become active...that is, if your work is not limited to a desk job in some office, somewhere... :)