even though you do come across as a bit arrogant, i'm going to have to agree with you here on every bit. well, i haven't given much thought to what Jesus' stance on welfare would be, but he'd probably say it's everyone's christian duty to help those lesser than ourselves--not the government's, explicitly. that's why i'm not a big fan of welfare. one, it drains the system b/c the gov't acts as an enabler for patterns of bad, irresponsible behavior. i'd be okay w/ a welfare system if there was a far greater level of accountability on the part of those recipients involved, but since there isn't, it sucks.... what denomination are you?

Do most of you guys think like this, when reading all these comments, I can't believe how selfish you sound. It seems like all you care about is money and how much you are going to get taxed. Not about all the people and mainly children that would benefit from systems that would although people access to cheaper medications and free access to hospital care. Payments when people are out of work you can them all "lazy-asses" but even they have children to support, extra family payments for people on low incomes and so on.

Thanks. :)

I am a God fearing man, but I know it takes more than just prayer to ensure our kids dont have to see what we've seen. Its pretty simple, either fight today or let your kids do it tomorrow.

No reference to Iraq and Al-Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks is one thing, but there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda. He built training camps for then IN his own country. He allow heads of Al-Qaeda to roam in and out of his country.. and for a man who kept his country in a tight lid - there was no way he didnt know. Finally, our Jordanian problem in there, Al-Zarkawi. Not only did he house him, he took him in when he got injured.


Remember, capital punishment is murder but abortions are encouraged.

please, be reasonable. it's all fine and dandy to say money isn't everything, but what all this boils down to is, we live in a capitalistic society. we don't have money, money has us. people want all sorts of entitlements, but without having to pay more out of their own paychecks. we tend to favor candidates who promise to not raise our taxes, or reduce them, then get rid of them if they break that promise and raise them. we want to pay off the national debt, or at least balance the budget, but we're not willing to accept the means to do so: either cut programs or raise taxes. money is our lives, whether you like it or not.
i know that not everyone on welfare or who is unemployed is lazy. but our welfare system is unreliable in that it doesn't really tell us who is and who isn't. i would support redistribution to those who deserve it, but that would require revamping the system.

Why should I have to give a part of my hard earned paycheck to the guy that did nothing but get drink and smoke pot in high school? Granted now all situations are like that above, but if I do not know to whom my money is going, excuse me for being selfish. If I knew for a fact that my money went to the mother of 3 that works 2 jobs to make rent, then fine.

Hellboy, you acuse me of being a hypocrite, voting for a man who is pro-choice.

Let me tell you a couple of stories about women I have known.

One young woman was so very afraid of the views of her own family regarding race issues, she aborted the baby she carried because it was half African American. She knew that once it was born, her family would disown her, and she couldn't bear it.

One woman who was very, very, wealthy, aborted her baby because her husband had had a vasectomy, and she had had an affair with another man. In the divorce settlement, she wanted the most money she could receive, and knew that if she carried another man's baby, she would receive less.

One woman was so afraid of the views of her own family, she considered killing herself, as she could not abort her baby, but would let the baby die inside herself, as she herself died.

One woman's health was draining away with her own blood, and she was given the choice of dying, or aborting the baby.

Do the choices of some of these woman shock me more than the others? Yes.

Can I judge them if I do not walk in their shoes. No.

I have lived in a time when abortions were not legal, and back street butchers made fortunes. There were many deaths. The babies, and the young women included.

I would love to live in a world where all babies were wanted and loved.

I myself was married by a priest who was against all forms of birth control, and suggested that I have ten children. I feel that is also very wrong.

You may not know, but I work with children, and I love them all. Calling me a hypocrite, was a judgement that I do not feel you were qualified to make.

What's up with you Europeans? You don't like Bush because he doesn't kiss European asses like John Kerry would've. Explain to me why it's okay for Saddam Hussein to massacre his own people? Why is it okay for him to fund Palestinian terrorists? Here's 4 words for you, kid: "Michael Moore- Fat Liar" I find it funny that you guys let that fat piece of garbage tell you what to believe. You and I know what will happen once your country is struck by disaster. You'll come begging for our aide and we'll give it to you. Unlike Europe, we're not selfish. We have every right to defend ourselves... like it or not... and Europe doesn't have a say in the way we chose to protect ourselves.

Iraq did nothing to america, the terrorists did.


Its the same as a hate group in New york, bombs an appartment and kills a few hundred innocent people. So usa bombs newyork murdering thousands of innocent lives.

Yhea good job there all you imperalistic single minded, greed-driven fuckers


Is any sum of wealth worth doing this?
http://www.ninjapirate.com/images/offensive5.jpg

Once again, what the fuck are you talking about?

And, for the record, I am Lutheran, RMadd.

wow.. just wow

First i thought noone was actually stupid enough not to know such blantly obvious things,

then when i found out your not joking....


Please get educated. You know nothing.

This makes no sense at all.

Oh sorry, change new york to New england and same rules apply

The people of iraq did nothing to deserve to be tortured, spat on, and killed. They did nothing to have thier homes destroyed, schools bombed, and children massicered.


Its not very difficult to understand folks,

Unless of course your a single minded patriotic bastard which i hope noone here is (well besides helboy hes obviously one)

i am one of those people too. I voted for Kerry. Too bad I don't live in Ohio or any of the other swing states. Then my vote would've mattered more. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but, I still hate Bush more than ever, and I disrespect everyone who thinks the way he does about being gay and so on! I still respect you. Maybe I'm a bit blurry 'bout this. I just disrespect your opinions if you think Bush is right about the gay-thing, which I've mentioned quite a few times by now. Respect you as persons, although.

X - keept it real man! I'm so backing you up!!

I don't like Saddam, but why would US have to bomb Iraq and kill innocent people? Why did you guys give Saddam that post in the first place?

You seriously wanna make me laugh?

Kill innocent people of Iraq... A country which have never done anything bad to the US, is that defending yourself? Did Iraq drive two plains into WTC in 2001? Are you blind, Bush just want the oil.

What if Alter Bridge came out and said they voted for Bush? Would you hate them then? You always put them up on a cloud, especially in the AB and Stapp forums... ;)

Man, there are people here on the board who voted for Bush who I really like chatting to. But if they share Bush opinions about the gay-thing, and so on, yeah I really think they better think about the whole thing again.

I don't know what AB voted for, and even if they voted for Bush, they're still making the best music ever, and I look up to them!

As I said before, I won't let my opinion and your opinions about Bush get in the way for our "relationships" here in the board!

I still respect you. Maybe I'm a bit blurry 'bout this. I just disrespect your opinions if you think Bush is right about the gay-thing, which I've mentioned quite a few times by now. Respect you as persons, although.

Ok :) I took your first statement to be that you disrespect someone simply because they believe or voted for Bush. You cleared that up here, saying you disrespect their opinion and not actually the person themselves. That's fine. I disrespect your opinion about Bush as well, but that doesn't make a difference to me with regards to a friendship or relationship.

That's the one thing I don't understand in some people. Some people take their political beliefs so far to heart that I don't see how they can get along on a personal level with people who agree with the opposite. For example, James Carville. He's married to that woman (can't remember her name) who is a strategist for the republicans, yet Carville is a stanch Democrat. They get along fine though. Go figure. :)

I'm through with my Bush-bashing now... He won, America voted for him, nothing will change.

It's pretty interesting... Kerry ruled the bigger cities, while Bush ruled the country side...

I'm glad to see this discussion ending on a "positive" note. Everyone has an opinion...and you shouldn't lose friendships over an opposing one :)

I do have to point this out though...regarding the gay marriage issue:

__________________________________________
Kerry has said he believes marriage -- both legally and religiously -- should be reserved between a man and woman.

"I believe and have fought for the principle that we should protect the fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples -- from inheritance to health benefits. I believe the right answer is civil unions. I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts Court's decision," Kerry said last week after the court ruling.
___________________________________________
Bush isn't the only one who is against gay marriage ;)

and I'm sorry I don't have the link...I'm surfing and totally forgot where i found that. I do recall though that during one of the debates...that both Bush and Kerry were asked their stance on the issue....and Kerry did say he agreed with Bush on the issue of keeping "marriage between a man and woman"...but that he supports civil unions.

Which btw....I support civil unions as well and feel that those who are partners..should get the benefits... I just don't support gay marriage. I just feel that the sanctity of marriage should be between a man and a woman. And before anyone calls me a gay basher....lol....I have a few friends who are gay..so don't even go there ;)

I am also one of those people. In fact, it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it. I just really can't for the life of me understand it.

As far as the Michael Moore stuff ...
I'm quite certain that he added his own spin on things and exaggerated. However, THERE IS NO WAY that he made up ALL of that. I have not seen Farenhype 911, although I am more than willing to ... just to be fair. But either way, how do you know that's all the truth? The only truth, in my opinion, is that there are truths and lies on both sides. Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me either way. I thought Bush was a moron long before Moore made his movie.

The bottom line is ... all the arguing and debating is pointless. We, unfortunately, are stuck with Bush for 4 more LONG years.

Few things:

1: Bush never said he did not like homosexuals, One of Cheney's daughters is a gay, the cute one [but thats another story]. What Bush is trying to do with homosexuals is the preserve the sanctity of MARRIAGE. He is not trying to outlaw homosexuality. The constutuional amendment, which would take an act of God to pass, does not take away ANY rights that they already have.

2: When the war broke out someone, my hero, posted a link from VH1 that showed all of the bands that swung to the right, two bands that stood out - CREED and THREE DOORS DOWN. So to that I say :finger:

3: You all have stated that we are killing innocent people in Iraq. Please, by all means, which innocent people? The innocents that are leaving road side bombs in crowded markets? The innocents that are loading up schools and children's hospitals with explosives? The innocents that are killing aid workers and contractors that are there to help the Iraqies? The innocents that are attacking coalition [of the bribed and coherced] forces? The innocents that are hiding weapons in the holiest of shrines? Or could it be the innocents that are purposly attacking the hundreds of Iraqies that line up for hours in order to sign up so they can better themselves, thier families, and most importantly thier country and, despite every attack, continue to do so daily in record numbers? Those innocents?

Ah, forgive me... where has my mind gone.. when America does anything its wrong and immoral, but when something is done to Americans, we deserve it.

I don't know why 9/11 is being blamed on Bush :wtf: Those turban wearing idiots were planning and plotting that Long before Bush even became president, Period!! They still would have done what they did that day no matter who was president, because of the fact that don't like American! They are jealouse because of the freedoms and rights that we have here and they are ticked off at us cuz we don't serve their unexhisting made up gods that they believe in.

Now THAT mulletman, was an excellent post!

You have stated that Osama is killing innocent people in the 9/11 Twin towers. Please, by all means, which innocent people? The innocents that are shooting other people over gang terrotory? The innocence who set fire to their boyfriends homes and kill families? The innocents that are in groups such as KKK and tourture/kill people of racial grudges? The innocence who are selling drugs to children to addict them, steal their lives and make a profit off them? The innocents who rape their own children every day and make the others watch? The innocents who murder people with sniper rifles just for the hell of it? The innocents who shoot their own students and teachers in schools? Or could it be the innocents that are purposly attacking the thousands of Americans that line up for hours in order to sign up so they can better themselves, thier families, and most importantly thier country and, despite every attack, continue to do so daily in record numbers? Those innocents?



By the way, when osama blew the 2 towers up, he wansnt geared on killing lives, if he did want to kill lives he would have hit a nuclear power plant and made serious damage, he was attacking CAPITOLISM, just as AMERICA IS ATTACKING TERRORIST. But when OSAMA kills a few thousand people for his hated of capitaolism and the millions that suffer because of capitolism every day, its a horrible tragity that we must all never forget. But when america blows the shit out of many more thousands of children and wives by bombing schools and buildings, noone gives a shit because their Iraq and everyone knows all people from Iraq are terrorists. Just like all people from america are racists maniacs who kill people for the hell of it. (washington sniper/KKK)

America didnt solve any problem, they just sunk LOWER then osama Bin ladin.

Im not saying what osama did was right, all im saying is what america is doing is just as bad.

Which is why I hate bush. He pritty much IS the american osama bin ladin




As for ferinhype9/11 well this artivle pritty much sums my opinions up on it
(man this sites got everything)
http://www.ninjapirate.com/fahrenhype911.html

What the fuck are you talking about????? He wasn't geared on killing lives???? Umm ... I'm sorry, but when you deliberately drive fully fueled aircrafts into the middle of buildings, knowing that the amount of fuel will cause tremendous fires leaving no way for the people above the target point to get out of the building (not to mention the passengers that were in the planes themselves) ... I'd say that is pretty much intended to kill people.

Try telling it to the woman I work with who had 2 sons in those towers!!

I don't even know where to begin with this totally uninformed bullshit post. I didn't think you could get any more inane, but you have sunk to new lows. Who are you to say the people in the towers weren't innocent? You have no idea who the people in the towers were. They very well have been some of the kinds of people you mentioned, but a lot of them working people, firefighters and police officers, tourists. children, students, and a multitude of others. And even if they were bad people, as you so judge, does it make it right for someone to come in, aim two airplanes at two buildings so as to kill them all, simply because of who they were???? They weren't the ones making and carrying out the policies over the last 20 years that pissed off Osama bin Laden. I don't condone his methods for revenge, but I can certainly understand from where his hate stems. You seriously need to get out more and stop throwing around uninformed completely baseless insults.

If he wanted to kill as many lives as possible then he would have flown the planes into nuclear power plants or apartment buildings (ONE large apartment building can hold more people then both the twin towers combined. The twin towers were americas #1 capitolism simbol, which is what he was geared on destroying.

Like i said, im not saying what he did was RIGHT, im saying what bush is doing to iraq is SIMMILER.

Try sayng half this entire discussion to the poor iraq woman who got her son massecerd at his school by american bombing or her inncoent brothers who were also murdered through the war.

Osama obviously didnt care about casualtys, and considering that bombs hitting Iraq are being known to blow up elementry schools, bush dosnt really care eather.

Wow your sarcasim detector must be a dud.

Read mulletmans post. Im being sarcastic and implying that what he is saying is as much Bullshit as what i sarcasitly said.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

read it

It's sarcaSM...Excuse me if my mind-reading skills are a little rusty, but you have never, ever expressed yourself in a manner on this message board that is easy to understand, beginning with the most atrocious spelling/typing I have ever seen. I know five-year-olds who could construct a sentence better than you.

You are full of it. I didn't see any rolling eyes or jk's in there. You have posted this kind of nonsense before, this ill-informed anti-American bullshit. I'm all for freedom of expression, but the nonsense you spew is unreal sometimes. Grow up and do a little research before you start mouthing off. And another thing, Mulletman's post talked about people who were killing others in a military campaign. So you were comparing apples to oranges.

Believe me, I am NO FAN of President Bush. I think he's an idiot! Nor am I a fan of war or killing innocent people in Iraq. And yes ... I do agree that there ARE innocent people in Iraq that are being killed. However, what should we have done in response to 9/11? Nothing?? Yell at Osama?? That would be effective. I'm not in favor of what is going on, but I'm not sure how else to retaliate what happened to us.

My problem with the whole thing is that I believe we went to Iraq for the wrong reasons. Osama is not from Iraq ... why we are there is beyond me. I do think Saddam was a threat and I'm glad he was taken out of power .... but he was not responsible for 9/11. While we're bombing the wrong country, Osama's family is hanging out with our President. THAT'S BULLSHIT!!

I understand your point. However, I think that the way you tried to make it really offended some people.

well i thought the fact that my post was EXACTLY IDENTICLE to mulletmans was enough of a clue.

I said bush is murdiering innocent Iraq-born children
Mulletman said that all Iraq people are NOT innocent (which is a racists opinion) and said that there are no innocent people in Iraq,

I then took his statement, and replaced the "iraqie" comments to American comments so you would have an idea of what someone from Iraq would think of mulletmans posts.
Which is obviously offencive bla bla bla. So by stating im running BS when you thought it was serious, you just confermed my statement that Mulletman is full of shit, Thanks.

Hahahaha, you're kidding, right? Your logic is so skewed as to defy logic!!
You obviously have a comprehension problem. While I don't always agree with what Mulletman says, what you said MADE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!! And WTF do you know what an Iraqi would say? As I said, unless you have a better informed opinion on this matter, ZIP IT ALREADY!

EXACTLY,

What they should have done is simple,
- Hunt and find Osama bin ladin,
- Take care of him

Which brings me to my point that bush is in this for self profit. Hell America even supported saddam and gave him the weapons he has now, but bush sees an oil profit here, so he basically takes it in the same ruthless inhumane matter that osama likes to solve things - mass slaughtering of innocence for personal benifit.


Oh and im still wating for those so called "weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq is apparently full of. Another point that bush just wants reasons to get some money.

Ok ill explain it easier for you.

Mulletman says bullshit, Xterminator mocks his post to make you realize its bullshit

END OF STORY ITS NOT THAT HARD

If i were from Iraq i would be pritty damn insulted to read the racist shit mulletman said. But noone here IS from Iraq, so i reagranged his post to make it apply to YOU, so YOU and YOUR country so YOU would have a better idea of what he is saying. (which is all Iraq's are evil (judgement based off small terror group) AKA Im saying if thats true then all Americans (judgement based off small terrorist group) must be evil) Kinda thing

I cant explain it any furter, just read it a few times and try looking at the posts from different prespectives

Yet again X you are full of shit. If we went to Iraq simply for the oil, we would not be wasting our time to attack Fallujah (sp?). We would have went to the actual oil fields, secured them, built bases around them, and it would be over. And if he did go simply for the oil, please point me in the direction of actual documents or sources which confirm this. (and sorry, but Michael Moore is not a source)

Mission NOT accomplished. Your post was still bullshit and the *mocking* was not evident. Maybe you better brush up on your witty reparte and debating skills before you post such nonsense!

You are sooooooooo clueless. I don't need to read things *a few times* to get them. I know what he was saying, and what you responded with DID NOT FIT. Do you get that now?