View Full Version : Smokers Church
Sincirr
06-23-2005, 11:25 PM
:smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
The original topic is being moved into another post because the smoking issue has overshadowed my real reason for wanting discussion on the smokers church idea...but lets keep the smoking debate going by all means!
:smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
Lunar Shadow
06-25-2005, 05:11 AM
and do tell me sincirr how would it encourage sin I am confused by this statment.... even when I was a Christian smoking was never a sin it is just another one of thoes issues that people automatially assume is just because. so do tell me where is the basis for the claim that smoking is a sin? cuz no one has been able to give me any argument on it (not that I would buy in to it due to the fact that I am an atheist) but I am curious
and if there is still a doubt in anyones mind.... yes I do smoke. :smokin:
Ana4Stapp
06-25-2005, 11:49 AM
I clearly CANT see ANY connection between smoke and sin.I mean, related to the religion issues. It's a choice. A wrong choice.
Of course I cant support smoke. I think smoke is a damaged thing to your health and consequently to your life , by the way, also to the other people lives who are around you.
Well, actually you can say you are commiting a sin to your own life when your are smoking... ;)
Lunar Shadow
06-25-2005, 01:11 PM
. I think smoke is a damaged thing to your health and consequently to your life , by the way, also to the other people lives who are around you.
this is not true the EPA report that finds that 2nd hand smoke kills was falseified. What the document says 2nd hand smoke kills over 3,000 people a year? well its wrong.
I mean come on people don't you guys ever watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit??
in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.
Ana4Stapp
06-25-2005, 03:26 PM
this is not true the EPA report that finds that 2nd hand smoke kills was falseified. What the document says 2nd hand smoke kills over 3,000 people a year? well its wrong.
I mean come on people don't you guys ever watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit??
in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.
What's EPA? I never heard about it!! :confused: Anyway I think smoking is a meanigless thing to do with your own life. :eek: ;)
creedsister
06-25-2005, 03:31 PM
How wonderful of you to bring this up , i think its no more than right its not encouraging sin not smoking if this could take place YOU WOULD SEE AN AWSOME MOVE GOD in the church , we serve the come as you Are God...man its just like of you have friends visting your house you want everybody to relax and be comfortable and not so up tight people sinners who ever need be relaxed when hearing the word Of God , and not in hurry to get out the door to go smoke im sure The Lord Feels The Same Way...of course a lot of pepole and church leaders and organizers dont feel the same way about it but if there in a church In The South , precious donna thats moving in this direction or trying too WHOOOOOOOOO that gives me some kinda hope that some would realize indeed the souls are what importan not the fact that she or he smokes,
Sincirr
06-27-2005, 04:06 AM
how would it encourage sin
Look, I set the debate up with 2 basic and obvious popular opinions on the subject. I didnt suggest that I think it is wrong or whatever cos I used to smoke too so bite me, Also from what people have said, it is polluting the body and it is a temple of the holy spirit, and it is also thought of as something that we rely on when we should be relying on God. And dont u fricken dare start on me with these arguments as well cos i just put them there to provoke thought, so shut up! :silly:
...due to the fact that I am an atheist...
There is no such thing as an atheist. Just someone whose got some issue with God/and U r deffinitely in that category.
in the EPA study they found there was no difference incancer rates of thoes who lived smokers than thoes who lived with non smokers.
what the! I can easily say that penn and tellers bullshit is bullshit. Falsified. What ever!
Lunar Shadow
06-27-2005, 05:05 AM
what the! I can easily say that penn and tellers bullshit is bullshit. Falsified. What ever!
First of all have you read the EPA report?? I have and Penn & Teller were right the report is bullshit. See like good researchers they post sources and their sources are from both sides on this particular issue I read both sides and they said the exact same thing except the fact that the EPA side did FALSE MATH to come up with their figure. Remember Penn & Teller Want you to check them on their claims especially if you doubt their claims.
Look, I set the debate up with 2 basic and obvious popular opinions on the subject. I didnt suggest that I think it is wrong or whatever cos I used to smoke too so bite me, Also from what people have said, it is polluting the body and it is a temple of the holy spirit, and it is also thought of as something that we rely on when we should be relying on God. And dont u fricken dare start on me with these arguments as well cos i just put them there to provoke thought, so shut up! :silly:
Every one quotes the bible out of context when referring to the body as a temple unto the holy spirit. The bible, or more specifically JESUS its talking about prostitution when he talks about the body being a temple, it is the most common reference taken out of context.
There is no such thing as an atheist. Just someone whose got some issue with God/and U r deffinitely in that category.
I think it is very funny for you to make that assertion that there is no such thing as an Atheist... are you in my head?....NO! Now I am I totally against the possibility of there being a god no not at all but I would need to see some evidence on that. How ever I do not believe in a God of any way shape or form no matter what fallacy your pastor has told you regarding Atheists. The blanketed statement you make about Atheism is a cop-out
I mean come on Sincirr do I sit here and say there is no such thing as a Christian?? Or a Catholic?? NO! I have more respect for peoples beliefs (or lack there of) than that just because I have come to know it as false doesn't mean that it doesn't mean anything to you or No_fixd or Uncertain or Creedsister for that matter. I find your assertion offensive and rude.
Lunar Shadow
06-27-2005, 05:30 AM
Not statistically significant is the findings
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9776409&dopt=Abstract
http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.220/news_detail.asp
Sincirr
06-27-2005, 08:00 AM
OKOK, sorry for offending U. I guess I get offended by what u call an "athiest"'s attitude. I gotta get over that hurdle.
Also the verse about your body being a temple of the HS can, I recon, be applied to other things that U subject your body and the Holy Spirit to...dont U think?
But I cant really apologise if I offended U about smoking. I thinksmokers have to be blissfully ignorant to not aknowledge that there has been many reports of increased risks of different phyiscal illnesses including the obvious sore throats and eye irritations, and also including the worse: lung cancer and heart disease to name a couple, when having to inhale sidestream and mainstream smoke.
Poor kids risks of getting asthma increase as well.
I have been reading in occupational health and safety sites mostly, so I am sure that I will get one of those fallicy accusations but anyways, whats in cigarette smoke? And what does it do?
Well there is like 4000 or so chemicals in the smoke so i cant be bothered analyzing them all, but here are some I looked up:
Phosphoric acid: Causes irritation of the nose, throat and respiratory tract.
Benzophenone: I keep getting results coming up that this stuff is widely used in sunscreen. Hmmm...anyways, this MSDS sheet I looked at says: WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.
Ammonia: long-term respiratory system and lung disorders have been observed following severe short-term exposures to ammonia.
But U could say, well that is only short term...
And in all fairness, u can build up a tollerance to the stuff so…
Oh yeh and fair enough, Carcinogens are thought to cause cancer so...
Bah!
Just one more, Hydrogen cyanide: Exposure to it can result in weakness, headache, confusion, vertigo, fatigue, anxiety and occasionally nausea and vomiting. Change in respiratory rate and depth; and within seconds or minutes, exposure to concentrated ammounts can result in death.
Look say this looks like a huge exaggeration, but still, U r putting that in yourself, and in others that are around U.
I will include a short list of stuff found in cigarette smoke in another post cos it is way too long!
I really didnt want this to be a debate about the effects of smoking though. I was hoping it would be more about post modernistic church types etc. Oh well.
Sincirr
06-27-2005, 08:08 AM
Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!
I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!
Acetanisole
Acetic Acid
Acetoin
Acetophenone
6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
Acetylpyrazine
2-Acetylpyridine
3-Acetylpyridine
2-Acetylthiazole
Aconitic Acid
dl-Alanine
Alfalfa Extract
Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
Allyl Hexanoate
Allyl Ionone
Almond Bitter Oil
Ambergris Tincture
Ammonia
Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
Ammonium Sulfide
Amyl Alcohol
Amyl Butyrate
Amyl Formate
Amyl Octanoate
alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
Amyris Oil
trans-Anethole
Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
Anise
Anise Star, Extract and Oils
Anisyl Acetate
Anisyl Alcohol
Anisyl Formate
Anisyl Phenylacetate
Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
1-Arginine
Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
Ascorbic Acid
1-Asparagine Monohydrate
1-Aspartic Acid
Balsam Peru and Oil
Basil Oil
Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
Beeswax White
Beet Juice Concentrate
Benzaldehyde
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
Benzoin Resin
Benzophenone
Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Butyrate
Benzyl Cinnamate
Benzyl Propionate
Benzyl Salicylate
Bergamot Oil
Bisabolene
Black Currant Buds Absolute
Borneol
Bornyl Acetate
Buchu Leaf Oil
1,3-Butanediol
2,3-Butanedione
1-Butanol
2-Butanone
4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
Butyl Acetate
Butyl Butyrate
Butyl Butyryl Lactate
Butyl Isovalerate
Butyl Phenylacetate
Butyl Undecylenate
3-Butylidenephthalide
Butyric Acid]
Cadinene
Caffeine
Calcium Carbonate
Camphene
Cananga Oil
Capsicum Oleoresin
Caramel Color
Caraway Oil
Carbon Dioxide
Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
Carob Bean and Extract
beta-Carotene
Carrot Oil
Carvacrol
4-Carvomenthenol
1-Carvone
beta-Caryophyllene
beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
Cassia Bark Oil
Cassie Absolute and Oil
Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
Cedar Leaf Oil
Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
Cedrol
Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
Cellulose Fiber
Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
Chicory Extract
Chocolate
Cinnamaldehyde
Cinnamic Acid
Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
Cinnamyl Acetate
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cinnamyl Cinnamate
Cinnamyl Isovalerate
Cinnamyl Propionate
Citral
Citric Acid
Citronella Oil
dl-Citronellol
Citronellyl Butyrate
itronellyl Isobutyrate
Civet Absolute
Clary Oil
Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
Cocoa
Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
Coconut Oil
Coffee
Cognac White and Green Oil
Copaiba Oil
Coriander Extract and Oil
Corn Oil
Corn Silk
Costus Root Oil
Cubeb Oil
Cuminaldehyde
para-Cymene
1-Cysteine
Dandelion Root Solid Extract
Davana Oil
2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
delta-Decalactone
gamma-Decalactone
Decanal
Decanoic Acid
1-Decanol
2-Decenal
Dehydromenthofurolactone
Diethyl Malonate
Diethyl Sebacate
2,3-Diethylpyrazine
Dihydro Anethole
5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
Dill Seed Oil and Extract
meta-Dimethoxybenzene
para-Dimethoxybenzene
2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
Dimethyl Succinate
3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
delta-Dodecalactone
gamma-Dodecalactone
para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Ethyl Acetate
Ethyl Acetoacetate
Ethyl Alcohol
Ethyl Benzoate
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Cinnamate
Ethyl Decanoate
Ethyl Fenchol
Ethyl Furoate
Ethyl Heptanoate
Ethyl Hexanoate
Ethyl Isovalerate
Ethyl Lactate
Ethyl Laurate
Ethyl Levulinate
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
Ethyl Myristate
Ethyl Nonanoate
Ethyl Octadecanoate
Ethyl Octanoate
Ethyl Oleate
Ethyl Palmitate
Ethyl Phenylacetate
Ethyl Propionate
Ethyl Salicylate
Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
Ethyl Valerate
Ethyl Vanillin
2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
4-Ethylguaiacol
para-Ethylphenol
3-Ethylpyridine
Eucalyptol
creedsister
06-27-2005, 03:36 PM
Sweet Heart Just Pray That Sis Quits ..But The Lord Knows This Would Not Be The Best Time To Quit :D
Lunar Shadow
06-28-2005, 02:54 AM
Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!
I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!
Yes I have read that list before and I know all too well cuz here in CA you can't light up with out some one giving you some rehearsed speech about what is in cigarettes and how bad they are for you. Well you know what I am an adult living in America it is my Freedom of choice to smoke and I enjoy every freakin' breath of it... I also enjoy smoking a pipe and occasionally partake in the pleasure of smoking a cigar... YES Tobacco is bad for YOU but saying that it causes adverse health effects on others who don't use it is nothing more than Bullshit rhetoric
creedsister
06-29-2005, 05:35 PM
its not good for ya and im trying to quit for the very first time ever and its a bitch but im doing the best i can..i,ve smoked since i was 12 :smokin: ...
creedsister
06-29-2005, 05:37 PM
Heres a short list of stuff found in your smoke. Read them and think about what U r breathing in. Its bad enough living in the city! bah!
I will post up to E here and i will have to put the rest in a word document!!!! Read if U dare!
:D the precious donna :D that was nice of you to post all that information :)
Sincirr
06-30-2005, 11:20 PM
Yes I have read that list before and I know all too well cuz here in CA you can't light up with out some one giving you some rehearsed speech about what is in cigarettes and how bad they are for you. Well you know what I am an adult living in America it is my Freedom of choice to smoke and I enjoy every freakin' breath of it... I also enjoy smoking a pipe and occasionally partake in the pleasure of smoking a cigar... YES Tobacco is bad for YOU but saying that it causes adverse health effects on others who don't use it is nothing more than Bullshit rhetoric
What you say is no more than bullshit fanciful and bias rhetoric! If U live with a person that doesnt smoke, they are still copping heaps of cigarette smoke! I used to smoke so i can see where u r coming from ok but even when i was smoking i wouldnt expose others to my choice. Fair? Bah!
Might sound like I am taking shots at U and all but I do like you regardless of whether U r an outspoken bugga or not. Just letting u know....now I gotta go get a rabies shot from the affects of the other thread!
:bump:
Lunar Shadow
07-01-2005, 03:46 AM
What you say is no more than bullshit fanciful and bias rhetoric! If U live with a person that doesnt smoke, they are still copping heaps of cigarette smoke! I used to smoke so i can see where u r coming from ok but even when i was smoking i wouldnt expose others to my choice. Fair? Bah!
Might sound like I am taking shots at U and all but I do like you regardless of whether U r an outspoken bugga or not. Just letting u know....now I gotta go get a rabies shot from the affects of the other thread!
:bump:
Just a thought now I have a wife and a kid (soon to be 2 6 days and counting) now I never said I was not cinsiderate... I do not smoke inside because my wife has said she does not like the smell I can respect that... but lioke I said that is being considerate but when one says that I am endagering thier health... that is bullshit.
Sincirr
07-01-2005, 05:00 AM
youve gotta be kidding me.
creedsister
07-01-2005, 02:29 PM
Just a thought now I have a wife and a kid (soon to be 2 6 days and counting) now I never said I was not cinsiderate... I do not smoke inside because my wife has said she does not like the smell I can respect that... but lioke I said that is being considerate but when one says that I am endagering thier health... that is bullshit. Yes I agree But smoke is bad for younger children, Its a danger for their ears and breathing...
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