Legalize Drugs? [Archive] - CreedFeed Community

Altair

09-29-2002, 11:25 AM

Personally, I believe that drugs should be legalized. The human race needs to get to the point of having faith and trush in its own members. We need to get past the point of having to ban things because they are potentially dangerous. And, we need to truly exercise freedom in all its glory.

It seems to me that regardless of how much me make drugs illegal, and how harsh the penalties are, people still use and abuse drugs. Consequentially, we are spending a gross amount of money trying to stop something that cannot be stopped. Perhaps that money should be used for treatment and education. Perhaps these drugs should be sold and taxed.

Perhaps we should allow people to live their lives as they want to, freely.

Oh, freedom. Free at last, free at last, maybe someday we'll be free at last.

allison

09-29-2002, 07:17 PM

I really don't know about other drugs-not sure how I feel (does anyone else have an issue that they are just honestly not sure about, btw?), but I do think that marijuana should be legalized. Here are my reasons:

1. I think it is less harmful than many other things that are legal(cigarrettes, alcohol, McDonald's artery-clogging food, automobiles which kill thousands of people every year, etc., etc.)

-No reported cases of ANYONE dying as the direct result of smoking it, EVER (cannot overdose)
-Has proven to NOT be physically addictive, and there is no evidence that it is psychologically addictive (although, be careful, anything can be to the right person)
-Does not make people violent or agressive - in fact, quite the opposite! :roll:
-No hangover
-No liver damage
-No praying to the porcelain god (unless used in conjunction with alcohol, at times) :puke:

**Warning** Has been known to aid in weight gain

2. If legalized, it would most certainly be taxed and the revenue could be used in any number of positive ways for society (you name it - to improve school facilities or teacher's salaries, in the development of programs for children, to improve deplorable animal shelters and staff, etc., etc.)

3. If it were decriminalized, it would put at least some criminals out of business, and would give a bit more resources to fighting real crime. :shoot:

TeriB19

09-29-2002, 07:20 PM

I totally agree with what Allison says with regard to the legalization of marijuana. Harder drugs such as cocaine or heroin, no way. But marijuana is on the same level with alcohol IMO. People drive drunk and that is illegal, but the actual alcohol is not illegal. The only thing I can see that should be illegal is driving under the influence of marijuana. But the "drug" itself should be made legal. Allison's reasons say it all.

Aimee

09-29-2002, 09:01 PM

I agree with Altair although I hesitate to advocate opening up a can of worms by legalizing highly addictive drugs that can ruin your life like heroin. I think that all drugs should be used medically first before they are able to be sold on the open market. I am all for legalizing Marijuana by the way. I agree with all of your points on that one!

Siana

10-02-2002, 09:49 AM

I am for legalizing Marijuana too...I hate drugs,but I've heard they could help in some cases......

Lady Valkyrie

10-02-2002, 02:08 PM

I am a recovering drug addict. My drugs of choice were weed, LSD, Extasy, and cocaine. It all started with weed though. I was a horrible mother when I was smoking just weed. I had no motivation whatsoever. I didn't cook anything to eat for my kids, I didn't watch my kids as well as I should have and therefore they ran wild. Financially, I was living in poverty in the "projects". In order to get the weed that I wanted for free, I made friends with some local dealers. They had a lot of stuff running through my apartment. I allowed others to come in and party, just so long as they kept the joints comin' at me. Soon I went on to the harder drugs, and my whole life hit rock bottom. I nearly lost my kids, nearly killed someone, went to jail many times, and my apartment was being watched by the authorities. It was the fact that I nearly lost my kids that woke me up. I gave my life over to Jesus Christ and he cleaned me up. I still struggle from time to time. There are times when I am so tempted to go buy a quarter bag... just to chill out. Then there are times when I want to get a few hits of acid... just to go in that other realm where there is no pain or sorrow. But I look at my kids and I say NO! I've got something better than the drugs... my kids... then I go hug and cuddle them and play with them until the "urge" is gone.

So I really am not for legalizing drugs. However, the hippy in me knows that there is no physical addictions associated with weed. However, with some people, like me, there is most definately a psychiological addiction. As for the harder drugs... never should they be legalized in my opinion.

allison

10-02-2002, 02:21 PM

Wow, Lady V, you sure have turned your life around. I remember you saying that you are not a strong person, but in my opinion, anyone who can completely change their life the way you did, MUST be a strong person.

Lady Valkyrie

10-02-2002, 02:29 PM

No I'm not strong. If I was strong I wouldn't have taken drugs to get out of dealing with reality. It is God who has helped me the whole way.

Lady Valkyrie

10-02-2002, 02:31 PM

Hey does anyone know what D.A.R.E. stands for?

TeriB19

10-02-2002, 02:32 PM

I think it's Drug Abuse Resistance through Education

allison

10-02-2002, 02:34 PM

We all make mistakes, but fixing them takes alot of strength, especially recovering from drug addiction. Maybe you weren't strong when you were doing the drugs, but isn't it true that you're strong now? Give yourself some credit!

allison

10-02-2002, 02:35 PM

drug abuse resistance education

allison

10-02-2002, 02:36 PM

or, department of agricultural research and education :D

TeriB19

10-02-2002, 02:39 PM

LOL:lol:

Lady Valkyrie

10-02-2002, 02:40 PM

No it means... Drugs Are Really Expensive :D

Lady Valkyrie

10-02-2002, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by allison
We all make mistakes, but fixing them takes alot of strength, especially recovering from drug addiction.  Maybe you weren't strong when you were doing the drugs, but isn't it true that you're strong now? Give yourself some credit!

I understand your point. And yeah in some areas I am stronger than I once was. In other areas I am so weak. That's for your kind words, allison. :)

Altair

10-02-2002, 10:28 PM

Confession time, is it?
Lady, I'm impressed at your resolve. Power to you, my friend!

However, I'd like to view this topic from a point of principle. I do not advocate drugs. On the contrary. I truly believe that people need to let go of their vices and crutches, those things they "think" they need: fancy clothes, electronic toys, luxurious food, big houses, nice cars, and I imagine drugs would fit also. These things we think we need are nothing more than chains that shackle us. I'm not saying that we should isolate ourselves from all material things and live as hermits. We just can't be servants to these false masters. The only master we need is that special person in all of us; to love one another as ourselves is the greatest goal.

We need to realize that the fewer things we need, the freer we are. Having said that, I'd also like to propose the idea that we must also strive for true freedom and faith in one another. In my mind, this means releasing the ban on objects and ideas that we fear because they pose some kind of potential threat. Now, certainly we must outlaw the possession of atomic weapons and other materials of mass destruction. But, drugs?

Criminalization of drugs has failed in its attempt to stop or even curtail use. Research has shown that, regardless of the severity of penalties, people still use drugs at the same general rates. This shouldn't come as a surprise. People break laws. Duh! In criminalizing drugs, all wev'e done, as a society, is make a bunch of criminals out of a bunch of basically harmless people that need help, not bars. In addition to that, we're stripping our own wallets supporting the retention of these people and the campaigns aimed at fighting drugs, all to no avail.

I believe we should legalize drugs, take the underground sellers out of the picture, and use the money now being wasted and the money we could make from the taxes to support education. People are going to use drugs whether it's against the law or not. At least we could clean up the act a little and maybe, through education, teach a better way.

Why slap someone on the wrist for doing wrong when you can teach them the right way in the first place?

Aimee

10-03-2002, 01:05 AM

Altair
I agree and I disagree. I agree that we should decriminalize drugs, that they are only putting people behind bars who need help, as you've said. I agree that we all have certain crutches that we can live without. But I can't agree that all of these things are not necessary to life. Life is something to be experienced, and if gadgets and vehicles like cars and airplanes can help me experience life more fully, I say great! But that is off the topic a bit. As far as drugs go, I believe that we need them in some way. Like after a death, a family has a wake where we all get toasted and cry a lot. Liquor may be your drug of choice then or maybe it's weed or maybe it's just a pack of cigarrettes, but it's something that helps cut the pain a bit.
By the way, legalizing marijuana takes it off the black market and keeps it from becoming a gateway to more potentially harmful drugs.
My personal agenda shines through.
:hippy:

Aimee

10-03-2002, 01:08 AM

Dare = Drugs Are Really Expensive

That had me cracking up!

Dogstar

10-03-2002, 01:30 AM

Thoughtful arguments on both sides. Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

I agree, Altair, that the more we shed our material selves, the freer we become. I have done my best in the last year to declutter, as I like to say. I have donated all kinds of stuff I feel I don't need anymore. It has been liberating to say the least. It seems the more we are plugged in the less free time we have to really appreciate what's important in life--people. 'Course, if I didn't have this electronic gadget, I wouldn't be conversing with some very cool people here...But I digress.

I also agree with Aimee, that some of our *vices* can be helpful in a small way, so long as they are not abused to the point where it interferes with good living. I'm one for a glass or two of wine, a bottle of beer or whatever. To be honest, I like the taste of the stuff and getting a little buzz on doesn' t hurt me once in a while. Everything in moderation.

With regard to legalizing marijuana, I agree it should be for the many reasons you two stated previously. I think the money could be better spent educating people and providing help for those who are addicted. I have a good friend who used marijuana to get through testicular cancer. He says it saved him. I believe him.

Altair

10-03-2002, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Aimee
Altair
But I can't agree that all of these things are not necessary to life.  Life is something to be experienced, and if gadgets and vehicles like cars and airplanes can help me experience life more fully, I say great!  But that is off the topic a bit.  As far as drugs go, I believe that we need them in some way.  Like after a death, a family has a wake where we all get toasted and cry a lot.  Liquor may be your drug of choice then or maybe it's weed or maybe it's just a pack of cigarrettes, but it's something that helps cut the pain a bit.  
By the way, legalizing marijuana takes it off the black market and keeps it from becoming a gateway to more potentially harmful drugs.  
My personal agenda shines through.
:hippy:

I think we have a semantics problem here. Let us take a look at the definition "need."

Need: 2 a : a lack of something requisite, desirable, or useful b : a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism

Now, I understand your angle; drugs or certain materials things can potentially alter our experience in a seemingly advantageous way. I simply want to take "need" to the extreme level.

If your well-being is dependent upon material things, even alcohol, then you are bound by those things. I simply believe, while they may seemingly help, they are not absolutely necessary, and to realize this is a matter of liberation. Of course, I don't expect you to elevate to such a high level of existence so easily. It does take determination and desire. But, with some perseverance, we can break on through and elevate ourselves. I do believe we are capable of being content with what naturally have. Unfortunately, we have been spoiled by our societal environment.

Have you tried living a life in a simplistic matter, denying yourself luxuries, or rather choosing abstenance from luxuries? It seems reasonable to me that premature judgements are not accurate accounts of reality. In other words, don't knock it until you've tried it.
;)

However, I do understand and respect your theory that alcohol is mandatory in the face of a devestating loss. I'd just rather prescribe to a different theory.

One final thought: I'm not saying that we completely abstain from material things. Again, let's simply not be servants to these things. They are not our masters.

Dogstar

10-03-2002, 01:40 AM

Ok, perhaps I'm a bit more of a linear thinker, here, and pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but are you saying abstain from things like our music as well, which require a few material things to enjoy? In my case, I guess I need music in the true sense of the word.

LadySilk

10-03-2002, 08:02 AM

All these arguments are so well thought out and excellently written and I respect all of your ideas and opinions. I think that marijuana should be legal and the reason is very simple. It is not addictive and having it for personal use is harming no one. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal and last year I lost an uncle to those "drugs". These can be much more harmful in terms of health issues. There are all kinds of vices out there from gambling to herion to hurting other people. In the long run the time, energy, and money spent debating this whole issue of marijuana could be spent more effectively dealing with other crimes and helping people with other crutches. I don't think other drugs should be legal, but marijuana also has health benefits for people with chronic illnesses. Furthermore, it is not a gateway to other drugs. People move on to hard drugs because of their lives, lifestyles, and inner problems. Not everyone who has used marijuana goes on to have a drug problem.

anyway just my opinion.

Altair

10-03-2002, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Dogstar
Ok, perhaps I'm a bit more of a linear thinker, here, and pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but are you saying abstain from things like our music as well, which require a few material things to enjoy? In my case, I guess I need music in the true sense of the word.

Dogstar, I understand your point. I love music and really seem to need it, too. And, at my stage of life, I choose to have music. In fact, I'll use the term "need" lightly here by saying I need music because I want it.

However, on a more idealistic side, I know, in my heart, I or you, do not absolutely need music. We can both learn to live, survive, and even prosper without music, even as ludicrous at that sounds. One has to believe that they can be fullfilled in this life simply by the moment to moment experience and whatever that experience encompasses, music or not, drugs or not; just the breath of life, the flowing of this living river, so to speak.
:rolleyes:

I really like these lyrics by Bono and think they fit this discussion. They come from the song "Kite" and go like this...
"I want you to know
that you don't need me anymore
I want you to know
you don't need anyone
or anything at all"

interestingly, he explores these ideas in the song "Walk On"...

"An love is not the easy thing,
the only baggage that you can bring,
is all that you can't leave behind...
leave it behind,
you've got to leave it behind,
all that you fashion,
all that you make,
all that you build,
all that you break,
all that you measure,
all that you steal,
all this you can leave behind,
all that you reason,
all that you sense,
all that you speak,
all you dress up,
all that you scheme..."

Uh, perhaps there is one exception. We do need each other. It's the only thing that makes this emptiness bareable.

Dogstar

10-03-2002, 10:48 AM

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from, but why must our existence or experiences on this earth simply be bearable? Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly take pleasure in my non-material experiences, too: A light summer breeze, warm sunshine, a beautiful blue sky, the sounds of the ocean, a restful nap, these bring me great joy, and as you mentioned, each other. Loving others, IMHO, is the greatest joy of them all.
Are you saying we are here basically to suffer and just survive? Again, please forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question. I'm just curious about your perspective because it's rare in these times.

A little off topic here, but I still can't get my family to stop buying me things, even though I have told them outright that while I appreciate their thoughts, I have no more room in my life for material gifts. I have tried to get them to donate to chariities instead, but so far, I have not been successful. The worst is Christmas, IMHO. I really wish we all could stop with the maniacal spending. My idea of a perfect Christmas is to get together with the people I love, have a great meal with them and just enjoy each other's company, maybe sing some Christmas carols and just hang out.

Lady Valkyrie

10-03-2002, 10:49 AM

Altair I have to agree with you in the aspect of "needs". Today's society thinks that cable and satellite TV, telephone, and high speed internet are "needs". I've lived in poverty most of my life. There were times I had to choose between buying medicine for my kids or buying food for my kids. There have been a lot of times that I didn't have cable, phone, internet, a car, or the luxury of buying new clothes when I needed them. I had to go to Goodwill for clothes at times. There has been the really, really, hard times when I carried my water from a nearby creek, bioled it for drinking and for baths because I didn't have enough money to pay for my water bills and it got turned off. All this happened way before I even got on the drugs. So I have a proper perspective on what is a true need and what is a desire or a want that makes life more fun.

About the "need" for alcohol for the death of a loved one. What are the effects of alcohol beside the physical stammering slurred speech, and the stumbling about. It's the "numbing" effects. You are just numbing your feelings when you drink. The fact that the loved one is dead doesn't change. Sooner or later you will have to sober up and deal with the grieving process. I have been through many funerals concerning my own loved ones. I've also turned to the alcohol after my first husband left me and our children on my daughter's birthday with my best friend. That right there was like the grieving process. No matter how much I drank when I sobered up the fact that my husband left me and my best friend betrayed me hadn't changed. Also I was no closer to getting through the whole process to recieve the healing that I needed in my heart.

And LadySilk I have to disagree with you on the fact that the use of weed doesn't harm anyone. That is a blanket statement and doesn't pertain to all situations. Reread my previous post. I was harmed by my psychological addiction. And because of my lack of motivation due to the use of weed, the physical and emotional needs of my children were not met and they suffered big time. However, I do agree that cigarettes and alcohol have destroyed many lives and have taken our loved ones early in life. I'm in the process of a divorce from my second husband because of his alcoholism. His father was an alcoholic and also died from emphasima... he smoked 2 packs a day up til the day he was put into the hospital and there he died. His death has nearly destroyed that family. If the survivors in that family aren't alcoholics or drug addicts they are very materialistic and are addicted to shopping for their very expensive toys.

And finally about the music issue...

Music is in the soul. It is in the nature of every human to make music, whether by instrument or by their voices. Music is a part of the human heart. The messages of the music is what can have a positive or negative effect on a person. There are times when I listen to an aggressive type song because I'm mad. Sometimes I listen to a bluesy song or some jazz because I am depressed. I listen to the music to proccess the emotion and then I'm over it. However some people listen to aggressive or depressing music and they don't go through the proccess... they stay stuck in anger and depression and that poisons their heart. In that way music can have a negative affect. But to say that one should abstain from music is to give up something that is a part of your heart and soul. Music is a God given gift.

allison

10-03-2002, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Dogstar
A little off topic here, but I still can't get my family to stop buying me things, even though I have told them outright that while I appreciate their thoughts, I have no more room in my life for material gifts. I have tried to get them to donate to chariities instead, but so far, I have not been successful. The worst is Christmas, IMHO. I really wish we all could stop with the maniacal spending. My idea of a perfect Christmas is to get together with the people I love, have a great meal with them and just enjoy each other's company, maybe sing some Christmas carols and just hang out.

I have the EXACT same problem. My family WILL NOT believe me when I say that I do not want gifts for my birthday or Christmas, I want them to donate to the charity of MY choice in MY name. I have tried to explain to them why over and over, year after year, but they still insist on buying me gifts. It makes me so angry! I hope that doesn't sound selfish or mean, but it really does. It's like they are buying me gifts to make themselves feel better! When I say, "There's nothing that I need. What I would really like would be for you to donate to...", they say, "Oh no, I can't do that, then you'd have nothing to open and I'd feel horrible!". Let me worry about that, and I do NOT feel horrible. What would truly make me feel GREAT would be to know that my charities got help when I couldn't give them as much money as I would like to, and they are able to do more good because of me. I really don't think I'd feel bad giving to a charity in someone's name if that's what they wanted me to do, so what's the deal? Why is this so difficult???? :mad:

Lady Valkyrie

10-03-2002, 01:40 PM

You know a way around that allison? Just tell your family that you aren't sure what you want at that time and it would be really nice if they'd get you a gift card to a store that you really like. Really whine that you really want a gift card. Then you take that gift card and buy something for the local charities in your area. Then get a receipt from the charity if you can and give it to your parents for that way you give them something in return...a reciept for their tax deductable contrubution to your favorite charity. lol:D

Altair

10-03-2002, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Dogstar
Ok, I think I see where you are coming from,  but why must our existence or experiences on this earth simply be bearable?  Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly take pleasure in my non-material experiences, too: A light summer breeze, warm sunshine, a beautiful blue sky, the sounds of the ocean, a restful nap, these bring me great joy, and as you mentioned, each other. Loving others, IMHO, is the greatest joy of them all.  
Are you saying we are here basically to suffer and just survive?  

Good question. Forgive me. I see that my explanation is poor. I do have a difficult time conveying my ideas.

"Are we here basically to suffer and survive? Are our experiences only to be bearable?" you ask?
Oh, hell no! That wasn't my point in the least bit. On the contrary. I want life to be full of joy, love, excitement, compassion, and wonder like that of a young child. I just simply believe we can attain these treasures without dependencies.

Unfortunately, most of us are so lost in gluttony and desires that we haven't even had the opportunity to try a life without material luxuries. Instead, we've been so trained by society, we are spoiled. We can reprogram ourselves, trusting our inner being's ability to fly on the wings of freedom.

Again, I'm sure I've failed at explaining my ideas, but it's a try.

Dogstar

10-04-2002, 04:01 AM

No, no, it's probably my misinterpreting. You do a fine job of conveying your ideas. I agree, we defiinitely could do more with less. Thank you for clearing that up. Sometimes, I can be just a tad slow:D

Allison, I know what you mean, that's what my parents tell me. They can't understand why I don't want any more stuff. My mother tells me I'm being selfish or ungrateful or hurting people's feelings by saying I don't want gifts. I understand that they are trying to be thoughtful, but I'd be happier if they would donate the money in my name or something. Altair is right. We are so programmed to spend, spend, spend and to believe that are lives are more complete with all the material largesse. And with the media even more pervasive than ever, it seems that it will never stop.

allison

10-04-2002, 09:28 AM

I don't know, maybe I AM being selfish. B/c it's true, I know I LOVE it when someone opens a gift from me that they love and that I've put alot of thought into. So maybe I am being selfish denying them that pleasure. But doesn't the gift-giver only get that pleasure when the gift they give truly pleases to receiver? If that's the case, then the gift that would please me the most would be a donation, like I said. Still, to me, the gift should be about what the receiver wants, not about what the giver wants to give. It's just so frustrating, but maybe I'll have a talk with my family and finally make them understand and it will work this Christmas! We'll see. I would try Lady V's suggestion, but I usually give to animal charities (big suprise, right?) and I don't know how useful people-store goods would be.

Dogstar

10-05-2002, 02:51 AM

I enjoy it too, when someone appreciates the thought I put into a gift, but I keep thinking there's got to be a way to stop the buying. If we could just get people to start thinking about each other and how important that is rather than all the *stuff* they think they need. It's easier said than done for some. Some members in my family are serious shop-aholics. I'm not saying I don't enjoy the *things* I have, but I just don't need any more things.

Aimee

10-05-2002, 04:58 PM

Altair, I think you explain your beliefs beautifully. And I agree that "wanting" and "needing" are two different things. To answer your question, yes I have lived with nothing. I lived in poverty where I had to chose between food or gas (another debateable neccesity) to get to work to buy the food I need. I have lived with an over abundance and found the "stuff" overwhelming. Now, I spring clean every six months and donate all the things I haven't used in a year. There are some things that, though I had and could live without them, I'm grateful to have:
1. Car
2. Washer & Dryer
3. Dishwasher
LadyV, I agree with you that alcohol and such should not be used as "crutches" to deny what's happening in life. I only meant that for one night or one week, the pain of existing in a world where death or loss has to occur can be lessened with these things. In no way do I think someone should use these things all the time. Also, regarding the psychological dependacy on weed, I know that there is one. The great thing is that when you finally wake up and realize that you're addicted in this way, it doesn't take a month of withdrawals to get off of it. And I think that's awesome!

"What you don't have, you don't need." U2

souldancer

10-07-2002, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Dogstar
If we could just get people to start thinking about each other and how important that is rather than all the *stuff* they think they need.   Watch out - if you get me on the soap box on this topic, I may crush the box! Simple living is my desparate cry! And as we approach the holidays, the consumer driven, commercialization propaganda can make you nuts - but only if we let it. It's a choice.

Wylde-Tremonti

10-11-2002, 09:59 PM

I'm a Feshman in HS....it's mandetory to take health classes.....we're in the middle of a section about alcohol,marijuana,and other drugs.........during the daily notes, our teacher has shown us pictures of babies and children that have developed horrible Berth defects because of alcohol MARIJUANA use during pregnancy............think of what would happen if ALL drugs were legal.........there would be billions of people with deformidies because their dumb-ass mothers and fathers used stupid drugs like marijuana........BILLIONS OF LIVES WOULD BE RUINED IF ALL DRUGS WERE LEGALIZED!!!!!!!!

Wylde-Tremonti

10-11-2002, 10:05 PM

I kno what i just said wasn't from a religious standpoint.....and i have one of those also....so here we go...
Jesus says that your body is a Temple of God.......so any time you put harmful things in your body.....your not only hurting yourself.....but your hurting a sacred temple of God........thats my viewpoint on drugs.......

Aimee

10-12-2002, 02:26 PM

EXCELLENT points on both of your last posts. Especially the fact that your body is a temple. Another reason to know that anything in excess cannot be good for you.
A note regarding pregnancy and the effects of drugs on babies: we would hope that if these drugs were legalized, women would abstain from taking them while they were pregnant (just like they don't drink caffeine or alcohol). Women who would do drugs while they are pregnant would most likely do them whether or not they are illegal.
And just so you know, doctors actually encourage expectant mothers to drink a bit of beer or wine in the last trimester. The alcohol helps relax the parts of the body needed for delivery of the baby and of milk. I'm not picking on you, just letting you know. Maybe you can ask your teacher about that.
Welcome to the board, looking forward to your reply!

TeriB19

10-12-2002, 03:07 PM

Aimee, you took the post right out from my fingers. Anything in moderation is ok (within reason, crack is not). When I was pregnant with both my girls, I drank only decaf coffee (I'm an avid fan of regular coffee, 2-4 cups everyday), did not drink any alcohol. I am not a cigarette or pot smoker, or a drug user. But if I were, I'd use my common sense. When you have another life growing inside your body, you treat it with respect, and you take care of your body. Common sense. Well said Aimee.

Wylde-Tremonti

10-12-2002, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Aimee
EXCELLENT  
A note regarding pregnancy and the effects of drugs on babies: we would hope that if these drugs were legalized, women would abstain from taking them while they were pregnant (just like they don't drink caffeine or alcohol).  Women who would do drugs while they are pregnant would most likely do them whether or not they are illegal.
the thing is.....the most damage to an unborn baby from the effexts of drugs happens during the 3rd week of pregnancy......ussualy women dont kno they're pregnant till after that........so even if the mother wants to stop during pregnancy....it might already be too late........... just another point I'd like to add.

Altair

10-13-2002, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by TremontiWanaB
I'm a Feshman in HS....it's mandetory to take health classes.....we're in the middle of a section about alcohol,marijuana,and other drugs.........during the daily notes, our teacher has shown us pictures of babies and children that have developed horrible Berth defects because of alcohol MARIJUANA use during pregnancy............think of what would happen if ALL drugs were legal.........there would be billions of people with deformidies because their dumb-ass mothers and fathers used stupid drugs like marijuana........BILLIONS OF LIVES WOULD BE RUINED IF ALL DRUGS WERE LEGALIZED!!!!!!!!

First of all, billions of people are already using drugs, so please don't assume that legalization of drugs is automatically going to make habitual users out of nonusers. Remember, we have choice and choices are best made when made from an educated perspective.

I simply believe that the millions of dollars being wasted on a futile war against drugs can be reinvested towards the education of the harmful effects of these drugs, equating to billions of positive outcomes for the trillions of people to come in our future so that they don't rattle off quadrillions and pentillions of uneducated comments about something they might not really have a clue about.

To this day, there is still no conclusive evidence that marijuana usage causes any kind of physical damage to the average user. In fact, more and more, medical science is realizing the benefits of this drug.
A gateway drug it might be. I once used pot and it was nothing more than a gateway to a more spiritual, peaceful, enlightened life for me. I no longer use it because I now realize that the moment is all you need. Just a choice.

The only reason I began this thread was to see if anyone else shared my belief that our freedoms are being taken away every time we turn the corner. They are being taken away in fear, in fear that we might ruin our lives. Well, sometimes that fear is just, and sometimes that fear will breed nothing more than ignorance and a dangerous complancency that someone else knows how to run and live our lives better than we do. Well, I'm sorry, but this is my life and I was under the assumption that America is about freedom and the pursuit of happiness. I believe it still is and that people can reawaken to this reality and take us to another level, one that has yet to be reached. Reasonably, I should be allowed to smoke a joint if I want to. I should be able to shoot up if I want to. And, I should live in a country where I'm not binded and chained by a multitude of laws that tell me what I cannot do, where freedom is disappearing in a shroud of lies that tell me my freedom is protected. No, I should live in a country that embraces my freedom and helps me make the best decisions that I can, taking my hand when I make mistakes, lifting me up back on my feet and showing me that I have support. Let's come together in compassion, love, freedom, and unity. Can you take me higher?

Aimee

10-13-2002, 01:51 PM

A gateway drug it might be.
Again, I maintain that it is a gateway drug because it is illegal and you have to go underground to get it therefore giving you access to other drugs.

Altair

10-13-2002, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Aimee
Again, I maintain that it is a gateway drug because it is illegal and you have to go underground to get it therefore giving you access to other drugs.

Yep, I'd agree with that. All the more reason to legalize it and all drugs to possibly eliminate the underground scene which is dangerous and dirty. However, I'm not sure politicians and government will agree to this because there is a possiblity they are making major amounts of money from the underground scene as well.

Funny thing is, you can also consider cigarettes, coffee and any kind of mental/phyical altering drugs, no matter how minor they might be, as "gateway" materials. Seems to me it depends on the individual and what they know/don't know.

souldancer

10-14-2002, 03:07 PM

Got into this discussion with a cousin last night...whoaaaaaaaa - hes' a big Rush Limbaugh supporter! (** cough ** spit ** cough **.) I think it is disgusting and so un-democratic what they have done in California. The People voted Yes for medical marijuana use, yet the frigin Feds can come in and clear out the medical marijuana suppliers. Go figure?!

souldancer

10-14-2002, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Altair
Should marijuana be legal? What about drugs in general? I say Yes, to the first question. And, as for the second question, "How do you spell pharmacy?" I am so sick of the healthcare systems, insurance companies, chemical and biotech companies, and the frigin American Medical Ass. who chooses and brainwashes people that THEIR DRUGS are OK?! But know what was really meant by the second question - legalizing the 'other illegal' drugs, and granted that IS a very complicated issue. Aimmee, Altair and DS have already said many points I would repeat and I thank them.

Lady Valkyrie

10-14-2002, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Aimee
EXCELLENT  points on both of your last posts.  Especially the fact that your body is a temple.  Another reason to know that anything in excess cannot be good for you.  
A note regarding pregnancy and the effects of drugs on babies: we would hope that if these drugs were legalized, women would abstain from taking them while they were pregnant (just like they don't drink caffeine or alcohol).  Women who would do drugs while they are pregnant would most likely do them whether or not they are illegal.  
And just so you know, doctors actually encourage expectant mothers to drink a bit of beer or wine in the last trimester.  The alcohol helps relax the parts of the body needed for delivery of the baby and of milk.  I'm not picking on you, just letting you know. Maybe you can ask your teacher about that.  
Welcome to the board, looking forward to your reply!

You would hope that an expectant mother would abstain from drugs??!! What planet do you live on? Women are on crack now and don't care what harm it does to the baby. There are mothers that are throwing their babies in dumpsters because they are drug addicts. And many hospitals across america are now putting into affect that you can have your baby safely in a hospital and sign them off to the state... why? Because the majority of the mothers that will do this are crack and herorine addicts and are the ones who will have their baby and throw it in a dumpster because the addiction to drugs are of more importance than their child. Do you actually think that these problems would be allieved if the drugs were legalized? Hell no they wouldn't! If anything the percentage of crack and herorine babies being born would most likely double or triple for there would then be no consequences at all for doing these drugs.

And let me say that I know for a fact that "doctors" do not encourage expectant mothers to drink alcohol during ANY trimester of the pregnacy. How do I know? I've had 3 kids! I was also a volunteer advocate in WV for proper prenatal care for a while. Doctors have made it plain and clear that the consumption of alcohol is harmful to the fetus and it puts the child in harms way of low birth weight. Look at it this way... anything the mother comsumes the baby get's the nutritional value of it first... then the mother gets the rest... hence the phrase eating for two. If a mother comsumes alcohol the baby is too. Woulds you put a bottle of beer in a baby bottle and feed it to your infant? If you did your child would be taken away from you for child abuse. Also all doctors tell nursing mothers not to drink alcohol while nursing... for the alcohol content is found in breast milk as well.

I don't know what "doctors" you've been talking to but I think that they must be a bunch of pot smokin', moonshine makin', free lovin' hippies who need their licsence taken away.

I know I may come off as harsh... but it seriously get's my panties in a bunch when people are misinformed. It's nothing personal Aimee.

Altair

10-14-2002, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie I don't know what "doctors" you've been talking to but I think that they must be a bunch of pot smokin', moonshine makin', free lovin' hippies who need their licsence taken away.[/b]

You make it sound like being a pot smokin, moonshine makin', free lovin person is evil.

Come now. I'd rather believe that material objects have no value: good or bad. Since when is pot evil? It's simply a naturally occuring plant. Since when is moonshine evil? It's just moonshine. And, since when is free love evil? I know we don't see eye to eye on these things and there is probably no point on arguing or even debating the matter, but I couldn't help but try and defend the notion that being a bad person has nothing to do with what you do on the side for personal enjoyment/relaxation/pursuit of happiness, especially when it might not have any kind of adverse consequences on "others" around you. Personally, I know some wonderful people, beautiful, caring, extremely educated, sharp-minded, rational, logical people that smoke pot, drink, and believe in "free love."

You want evil? See that bastard Bin Laden.

But, please don't go to simple substance use. Afterall, I imagine a great many substances are evil if they were simply judged by the fact that they might be detrimental to the mind/body. How about red meat? Coffee? Cigarettes? Potato chips? Ice cream? Hamburgers? French fries? Using fossil fuel burning devices? Ozone depleting chemicals? Funding organizations that support child labor? Shall I go on?

Lady Valkyrie

10-14-2002, 08:28 PM

Altair don't you be going off on your "hippy like" tangent and acting like a smart ace lol;) :P :D

I was merely stating that those doctors that Aimee is referring to are going against the very thing that Science has proven to be harmful to a fetus... and that is alcohol consumption during pregnacy. Sounds flaky and unscientific to me... and therfore if a fetus is born with FAS they should be sued for malpractice for telling a woman to drink alcohol regularly during any trimester of her pregnancy. THAT WAS MY POINT ALTAIR... SO please don't give me the "hippy tangent"... I was there at one time... I moved on.

souldancer

10-15-2002, 12:09 AM

Excellent points, Altair :hippy: Right On, I say!

Doctors are humans and science is open-ended. Some of those paid for scientific studies are often biased and self-serving - bought out by the industry with profit interest. What ever happened to common sense and responsibility for healthcare? Good old fashioned remedies and prevention. This country irks me that way it is so driven my instant gratification, greed and materialism!

As for Lady V's point re: "Women are on crack now and don't care what harm it does to the baby. There are mothers that are throwing their babies in dumpsters because they are drug addicts. And many hospitals across america are now putting into affect that you can have your baby safely in a hospital and sign them off to the state..." _ WHAT PERCENTAGE IS THAT?! I agree that is the worst - a horrendous crime on innocense and am glad that we are trying to intervene.,.. Don't be comparing a group that thinks it is OK to smoke a joint on the weekend with a different population!

I would like to see this civilized, rich country get off it's ass and take the money it spends on fighting the War On Drugs, and put it towards Early Childhood Education that bring humanistic principles and humane education, which includes reverence for Life (self, others, non-human animals, environnment); and support Parenting Education campaigns such as WAMO!

And I still argue that the docs are pushing their own harmful to body-temple drugs - the ones that they can, of course, PROFIT from!

Now, Lady V, are those panties still bunched up? ;) I think you need to have a glass of organic red wine, get an aroma-therapy massage and relax.

 PS "Rush Limbaugh" is on my list of 'evil' doers

** Feeling pulse rate increase ** Breathes slowly, 1, 2, 3, 4..., reaches for VHS yoga tape to unwind **

Lady Valkyrie

10-15-2002, 08:35 AM

I am the ultimate Rush fan by the way. LOL And I don't need red wine or any foriegn substance placed into my body to relax. Prayer and meditation does wonders. And are my panties still in a bunch... uh no... cuz I ain't wearing any! HA!;)

souldancer

10-15-2002, 01:54 PM

and hope you burned that bra too! ;) Glad we can share our differences and laugh together. Firm believer in meditation, prayers and chanting. Have a blessed day!

TeriB19

10-15-2002, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by souldancer
I would like to see this civilized, rich country get off it's ass and take the money it spends on fighting the War On Drugs, and  put it towards Early Childhood Education that bring humanistic principles and humane education, which includes reverence for Life (self, others, non-human animals, environnment); and support Parenting Education campaigns such as WAWO!
   

  PS  "Rush Limbaugh" is on my list of 'evil' doers


Excellent points BOTH. Don't like Rush at all myself.

Aimee

10-15-2002, 11:23 PM

I was going to say, "Don't get you panties all in a bunch, because I said this:
Women who would do drugs while they are pregnant would most likely do them whether or not they are illegal. " But I guess that's not the point to someone who only reads half of what I write.

About those doctors, damn LadyV - maybe there is something wrong with me! My mommy smoked cigarettes AND drank an occasional beer while I was inside of her tummy. :eek:
AND my Gr'Annie used (heaven forbid) WHISKEY on my gums while I was teething!
Or maybe it was just that my mom fell out of a truck while she was pregnant with me without wearing her seatbelt (true story). I'm afraid you are beginning to sound like a freakin commie.