Isn't it ironic?!

[Bridge of Clay]

Sorry, I know I may open a can of worms here but I couldn't resist and I'll post this.

Find below a quote on Fred Durst:


Hes an asshole; he's burned a lot of bridges. Nobody likes him. I mean, his guitarist left the band because Fred is such a cock.


funny how things change, huh?

PS: I don't mean to bash Stapp but I thought this was too ironic. Got it from mt.net board.

[creedsister]

He Is One.. :) Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[titan9]

Lol, that IS pretty funny. Especially if what is said about Stapp is true. I'm not going to say it is or it isn't, but if it is, that's pretty ironic, lol!

[Chase]

Sorry, I know I may open a can of worms here but I couldn't resist and I'll post this.

Find below a quote on Fred Durst:



funny how things change, huh?

PS: I don't mean to bash Stapp but I thought this was too ironic. Got it from mt.net board.

Yes you do... if you didn't want to take the time to bash Stapp then you wouldn't have started this thread. Let's all praise the three saints in Alter Bridge and crucify Stapp over and over again. This is getting old.

[Bridge of Clay]

I have no reason whatsoever to bash him. I'm a fan of Stapp the musician, period.

I'm just saying we all should watch our words. If 10 years from now Creed gets back together, I'll be the first to post Mark's quotes like "not even for a million dollars"...

[uncertaindrumer]

Yes you do... if you didn't want to take the time to bash Stapp then you wouldn't have started this thread. Let's all praise the three saints in Alter Bridge and crucify Stapp over and over again. This is getting old.

You are definitely correct. Stapp lovers' martyr (sp?) speeches are quite old indeed. This is hilarious. Eating one's words is funny, no matter who it is. Now laugh or go back to your little Stapp alter. lol, jk. Don't mean to get nasty.

[Chase]

You are definitely correct. Stapp lovers' martyr (sp?) speeches are quite old indeed. This is hilarious. Eating one's words is funny, no matter who it is. Now laugh or go back to your little Stapp alter. lol, jk. Don't mean to get nasty.

Stapp altar? I don't have a Stapp altar. All I'm saying is that both sides are guilty of the demise of Creed. I like Alter Bridge and Stapp. I also think that all of them could have prevented the break up of Creed... so why don't you stop trying make it sound like you can only like one or the other.

[tremonti4life04]

Stapp altar? I don't have a Stapp altar. All I'm saying is that both sides are guilty of the demise of Creed. I like Alter Bridge and Stapp. I also think that all of them could have prevented the break up of Creed... so why don't you stop trying make it sound like you can only like one or the other.


we have factions here at creedfeed, its a bad way to live, but eh, some people make it outta the ghetto alive

[uncertaindrumer]

I did not come into this thread intending to bash Stapp. I try to refrain from that on Stapp's section. I thought the thread was hilarious, and was trying to get YOU to lighten up, clearly I failed. The Stapp altar was obviously intended to be humorous, I meant no ill-will.

You claim all you wanted to do was say that all sides were responsible for the break up of Creed?

Yes you do... if you didn't want to take the time to bash Stapp then you wouldn't have started this thread. Let's all praise the three saints in Alter Bridge and crucify Stapp over and over again. This is getting old.

That has nothing to do with saying that all sides are culpable, it has to do with defending Stapp when he was clearly eating his words. And even if BoC WAS Stapp bashing (which he wasn't), it was clearly intended merely for humorous purposes alone. If he wanted to bash Stapp, there are a LOT of better ways to do it.

And also, it is (as I have said many times before) quite easy to like both Stapp and AB musically. (Well, not THAT easy since Stapp hasn't released anything, but you know what I mean). However, from a standpoint of "who is the biggest jerk?", you can't like both. Tremo obviously can't stand Stapp, and Stapp apparently is either lying about Tremo, or Tremo is lying about Stapp lying. There is bad blood, plain and simple. Someone was responsible, someone was culpible.

That has NOTHING to do with their music and I will very rarely hold someone's alleged personality agaisnt them in the case of their music. I will not do so in THIS case. But Stapp clearly has problems, and poking fun at them is no big deal. Funny, actually.

If you want to go to the AB board and bring in something funny about AB that might happen to be degrading... Go ahead! I'll probably laugh. Unfortunately AB has not done much to give anyone a reason to dislike them, unlike Stapp who definitely HAS. So you can see it as everyone ganging up on Stapp without a reason, or you can take the joke, move on, and live with it, without going in an uproar because someone insulted Stapp.

For heaven's sake, YOU brought AB into this. There was no Alter Bridge praising when you said "let's all praise alter bridge". BoC didn't say "look at how much of an idiot Stapp is, thank goodness AB isn't this dumb". And yet you acted like he did.

Take a joke, man, take a joke.

[TeriB19]

we have factions here at creedfeed, its a bad way to live, but eh, some people make it outta the ghetto alive
LMAO!!!

I DO find it ironic that he made those comments. I also see the humor and I agree others need to lighten up or we be bustin' a cap on yo asses. ;)

[Bridge of Clay]

yeah that! ^

thanks!!!

[Dogstar]

LMAO!!!

I DO find it ironic that he made those comments. I also see the humor and I agree others need to lighten up or we be bustin' a cap on yo asses. ;)
Hahaha, right on...

[tremonti4life04]

its like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you're already late....ohhh..nm

[tremonti4life04]

oh, wasnt that article out of Stuff magazine, the one with Pink on the cover?

[RMadd]

I have no reason whatsoever to bash him. I'm a fan of Stapp the musician, period.

I'm just saying we all should watch our words. If 10 years from now Creed gets back together, I'll be the first to post Mark's quotes like "not even for a million dollars"...
Watch your words
Or your words might drown you
And cure my wounds
And the light will blind you

To truly see well
You must have faith
Oh the righteous they can't wait
A saving grace
That we all know
Let us pray
Let us hold on

[CHORUS]

I can't breathe
I prefer to find a ceiling
To the hate of mine
I can't win
I can fight no more
I am drowning
And I'm sick inside

Push no more
And the day will find you
Speak no truth
And your ways will end you
It's alright
And you must move on

Though the damage
Has been done
Cherish the life
And the ones you hold
Can you change
Can you go on

[CHORUS]

To truly see well
You must have faith
Oh the righteous they can't wait
A saving grace
That we all know
Let us pray
Let us hold on

[CHORUS]

[RMadd]

Chase: lighten up, son. it's not bashing Stappy. it's just pointing out the irony in comments made a couple years ago. Marcos did not say "Stapp is a cock". His inference, by relating the comment to the current situation, would be more along the lines of "I mean, Mark left the band because Scott is such a cock." And I wouold thnk that we can all agree that Mark prolly doesn't think too highly of Scotty right now (and hasn't for the past year or two).

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

Scott is this and Alterbridge is that, this gets old and very childish. Dogstar has said this over and over again, appreciate the music not the person.This is why feelings get hurt. Kind of reminds me Stryper, yes Stryper they were around in the eighties and then in the early 90's broke up. Suffice to say they are back now with a new cd to come out really soon. I was on their website the other day and someone posted that it would be great to see Alterbridge and Stryper tour together. I think it would be awesome. Bash me if you must , that is my opinion.

[Chase]

Chase: lighten up, son. it's not bashing Stappy. it's just pointing out the irony in comments made a couple years ago. Marcos did not say "Stapp is a cock". His inference, by relating the comment to the current situation, would be more along the lines of "I mean, Mark left the band because Scott is such a cock." And I wouold thnk that we can all agree that Mark prolly doesn't think too highly of Scotty right now (and hasn't for the past year or two).

Lighten up? I'm sticking up for a guy who is constantly being kicked while he's down. What's wrong with that? It seems that you guys hardly give the guy a chance to prove himself. I'm not offended by Stapp bashing... I just find it to be in poor taste. It's like you guys won't give the guy a second chance or any redemption whatsoever. In my opinion... it's Mark's decision to prolong this feud (judging by his recent comments). At least Scott's making an attempt to find peace (judging by his recent comments). I just think he's an easy target... that's all I'm saying. But apparently because I stick up for the underdog... I have him on an altar and worship the ground he walks on and has a bottle of his sweat.

[Dogstar]

There are plenty of us who would love to give the guy a second chance. We want the new music that he himself promised us. I'm very curious to hear his new stuff, but the delays have left some of us more than skeptical that we will ever hear it.

[tremonti4life04]

There are plenty of us who would love to give the guy a second chance. We want the new music that he himself promised us. I'm very curious to hear his new stuff, but the delays have left some of us more than skeptical that we will ever hear it.

Amen sista Kerri! LEMME HEAR AN AMEN!

lol, sorry, just picking, but thats how i feel as well.

[OneOmerta]

But apparently because I stick up for the underdog... I have him on an altar and worship the ground he walks on and has a bottle of his sweat.

Chase....don't sweat it. (no pun intended lol) Apparently in some peoples minds....anyone who sticks up for an underdog should be tarred and feathered and nailed to a cross for God worshipping. :rolleyes:

There are many who just simply call it compassion and respect...and the willingness to give others the benefit of the doubt. Some are pessimistic...some are optimistic. I choose to be optimistic. It's just my nature. But alas, not everyone is made of the same mold. (thank goodness, because I can't imagine being so negative all the damn time..what a drag) lol

[Bridge of Clay]

It's funny you can stand being negative towards AB... lol!

but that's another story.

[titan9]

Now now guys, can't we all just get along? ;) Not everyone who defends Stapp is a Stapp worshipper; likewise, not everyone who defends Alter Bridge is an Alter Bridge worshipper. I don't think enough people think about that. Arguing about if Stapp's a good guy in his personal life or not is quite pointless because the fact is, NONE of us know Scott personally. I don't know him and I doubt that anyone on here knows the guy personally. As I've said, we think we know him, we think we know how he is(just based off of what some people say) but the truth is, we don't know for sure. For all we know, Scott is the nicest guy ever. Or the biggest jerk ever. Point is, it's really stupid to assume either way. I don't think Scott is the bad guy everyone makes him out to be, but I could be totally wrong about that. Who knows and it's pointless to act like you know for sure. It seems like almost every Stapp thread in this forum ends in an argument about how "he's such a jerk". Let's break the cycle and not have this thread end that same way.

[OneOmerta]

It's funny you can stand being negative towards AB... lol!

but that's another story.

Are you speaking to me Marco's? If so...please point out WHERE I have been negative towards AB on a personal level. I'll be sure to check back when you provide that evidence. So...because I'm not an AB groupie like most of ya on these bb's...I'm negative towards them? Did you know that I own the AB CD? Did you know that I actually listen to the AB CD? (although admittedly it's not a favorite of mine...but I do listen when I get time for music) Tell me...what else do you think you know about me? I DO NOT hero worship ANY BAND...like so many of you do, and that includes Scott Stapp. Get your facts straight dude.

[Dogstar]

Amen sista Kerri! LEMME HEAR AN AMEN!

lol, sorry, just picking, but thats how i feel as well.
:laugh: You crack me up!

[RMadd]

Lighten up? I'm sticking up for a guy who is constantly being kicked while he's down. What's wrong with that? It seems that you guys hardly give the guy a chance to prove himself. I'm not offended by Stapp bashing... I just find it to be in poor taste. It's like you guys won't give the guy a second chance or any redemption whatsoever. In my opinion... it's Mark's decision to prolong this feud (judging by his recent comments). At least Scott's making an attempt to find peace (judging by his recent comments). I just think he's an easy target... that's all I'm saying. But apparently because I stick up for the underdog... I have him on an altar and worship the ground he walks on and has a bottle of his sweat.
ok, here's the difference: you think Marcos (Bridge of Clay) was bashing Stapp; most everyone else posting in this thread doesn't. it'd be Stapp-bashing if he'd have said something to the effect of "god, stapp is such a fucknut for saying something without even thinking, he's just a douche-bag like fred durst!". but, did he say that? no. he merely provided a quote from Stapp a few years ago, and pointed out how it somewhat related to Stapp's current situation. if you want to be ultra-negative and call out every last remotely critical comment on Scott as Stapp-bashing, by all means, do. there are those of us who appreciate and, dare i say, enjoy observations, particularly when they are somewhat ironic in nature, so please don't ruin it for us.
additionally, i'd like to point out that this is the "Scott Stapp Talk" section of the forums, not the "Scott Stapp Appreciation" forum, so i would assume that critical insights of Mr. Stapp belong in this section over any other one on these boards.

[Ann Allusion]

But apparently because I stick up for the underdog... I have him on an altar and worship the ground he walks on and has a bottle of his sweat.

Chase....don't sweat it. (no pun intended lol) Apparently in some peoples minds....anyone who sticks up for an underdog should be tarred and feathered and nailed to a cross for God worshipping.

There are many who just simply call it compassion and respect

and that is the bottom line, "O"...people that are compassionate are also understanding and forgiving...something that has been lacking through this whole mess...no body seems willing to just let things drop and start over from square one.

I agree with you, i've always attempted to be optimistic...the negativity that all this crap generates is getting old.

[TeriB19]

It seems that you guys hardly give the guy a chance to prove himself.

It's like you guys won't give the guy a second chance or any redemption whatsoever. In my opinion... it's Mark's decision to prolong this feud (judging by his recent comments). At least Scott's making an attempt to find peace (judging by his recent comments).
Hardly give the guy a second chance? We've been waiting for his solo stuff for WELL over a year and given the fact that August is the tentative date for his solo release, it'll be almost 2 full years that we've been waiting. I'd hardly call that 'hardly' giving the guy a second chance.

Sorry, I don't see now Mark's choosing to prolong this feud either.

thread doesn't. it'd be Stapp-bashing if he'd have said something to the effect of "god, stapp is such a fucknut for saying something without even thinking, he's just a douche-bag like fred durst!". but, did he say that? no. he merely provided a quote from Stapp a few years ago, and pointed out how it somewhat related to Stapp's current situation. if you want to be ultra-negative and call out every last remotely critical comment on Scott as Stapp-bashing, by all means, do. there are those of us who appreciate and, dare i say, enjoy observations, particularly when they are somewhat ironic in nature, so please don't ruin it for us.

:clap: :clap: Exactly right, Ryan. (LMAO @ fucknut) :)

[Chase]

The guy has been through hell and back and all you care about is his the release of his CD date. How would YOU feel if you were in one of the lowest points in your life and the only way to have your "fans" still support you is for you to NOT take time to fix your life and pop out a CD as fast as you possibly can?

[tremonti4life04]

See, when you are a MUSICIAN, thats what you do. You dont leave your fans hanging without a single word about what you are doing. When you get into the scene, you should know what you are getting yourself into. When you are as famous as stapp, you have fans who expect to know whats going on with the new album, and he should know that, and keep his fans posted.

[Dogstar]

The guy has been through hell and back and all you care about is his the release of his CD date. How would YOU feel if you were in one of the lowest points in your life and the only way to have your "fans" still support you is for you to NOT take time to fix your life and pop out a CD as fast as you possibly can?
Give me a break. There are plenty of people who have struggled mightily in their lives and still manage to do their jobs and have to do their jobs while they straighten out because they have to survive. They don't have the means to take a year off from their work to get their shit together. If that's what he's doing, fine, but don't promise something and then not deliver.

[RMadd]

and wasn't Scott depressed back when Creed was together, around 2002? that's the understanding that i had. as far as i know, he's been well for quite some time now. and ditto about the not giving fans any news. sure, that's prolly wind-up's method, but i don't necessarily agree with the idea that "no news is good news". more like "no substantial, specific news for a year or two just fucking pisses me off"

[titan9]

Yeah, I think I blame Wind-up more for the lack of news than I do Scott. Afterall, it is the record label's job to keep the fans of a particular artist up to date. Of course, if Scott really, REALLY wanted his fans to be up to date, he could have probably did something.

I HATE the fact that Wind-Up doesn't (a)update their artists official sites often and (b)promote all of their artists. I hate that they just focus on a few artists, while ignoring the rest of them. Someone on the 12 Stones Bulletin Board said that they emailed Roman DeStreets(the streetteam head) and asked him why 12 Stones has not really toured in support of their latest album(released just a couple of weeks after Alter Bridge's debut). Roman's response was something along the lines of, "Wind-Up is going to focus on promoting the moneymakers: Seether, Evanescence(big shocker there, right?), Submersed and Alter Bridge." That's great that they're going to focus on giving Alter Bridge and Submersed some promotion, but what about their other artists? What about 12 Stones? What about Eric Durrance(now, like Stapp, a solo artist)? What about Stapp? What about the other Wind-Up artists? Now I know you're thinking, "but Durrance and Stapp haven't finished work on their solo efforts." You're right, but 12 Stones has finished work on their latest album and still hasn't received a single bit of promotion for it, despite good sales in the first month of release. What makes anyone think that Durrance and Stapp(as well as other Wind-Up artists who aren't in that big four) will get promotion once they release their next album(s)? I'm willing to bet that they won't. And only because they aren't "money-makers". Perhaps they would be "money-makers" if they were given promotion. If Wind-Up won't promote these other artists that deserve the promotion, they should let them go.

It's really frustrating sitting back and watching Wind-Up fail to promote some artists and fail to update their web sites. I know that if I were in their position, the sites would be updated and the artists would be promoted. Not just the "money-makers", but the lesser known(yet talented) artists would be promoted as well. I hope Wind-Up realizes that they're making a big mistake by just ignoring some of their artists. It's really bad business in the end. I guess I might have ventured a bit off topic with my venting, so I'm sorry for that.

Back on topic, though. Dogstar is right. If Scott knew that he could not get the album done by the original time-frame(the end of 2004/early 2005) then he should not have made promises. He went through a lot. I understand that and feel sympathetic in that respect. But the fact is, we all have gone through a lot and we still continue to work at our jobs, study for school and spend time with family. If Scott was going through a lot when he made the promises of the album being out by the end of 2004, he shouldn't have made those promises and should have just taken a break from work. I'm sure if he explained to his fans that he needed a break, everyone would understand. People have gotten frustrated and impatient because it almost seems like this album will never come out. I'm not one of those people, but I can understand why some are getting frustrated. They are getting frustrated because they were promised something at a specific time and it has not happened yet.

[RMadd]

hey, i don't mind your venting, but i'd just like to point out one thing: you're faulting a corporation for pursuing its best profit-earning interests (i.e. Seether, Submersed, Evanescence, AB). i'm not saying you're wrong for hating W-U for doing so; i, too, think it's pretty shallow to ignore a good number of your artists, especially when most of them are pretty new & small (in terms of popularity or public knowledge of them), and deserve their own chance to make music & hit it big.

[titan9]

Oh, I understand it's all about the money to them, as it is with all other labels. I understand that those four(let's refer to them as the "big four") are the "money-makers" for Wind-Up, but isn't it bad business to have several other artists on the label and not promote them? I'm sure they could be "money-makers" if given the chance. I'm not faulting Wind-Up for promoting the big four, just saying that it is frustrating to see other good artists go un-tapped and un-promoted.

[The Lithium]

Yeah, but let's face it... The reason Mark and Flip (and Brian) left Stapp was because he was and is such a big cock. I really used to like him. And I love his voice! But after Creed broke up I really look at Stapp in a new way. Now when I know the truth.

[uncertaindrumer]

Ya know, if I make a post like that I get completely torn apart... you make a post like that and no one makes a sound.

More power to you, I agree completely, but the injustices on this board... lol

[Dogstar]

Ya know, if I make a post like that I get completely torn apart... you make a post like that and no one makes a sound.

More power to you, I agree completely, but the injustices on this board... lol
Don't worry, I'm sure there will be someone who rips Lith for that one ;)

[Chase]

Look... you guys have legit reasons for being upset with Stapp. I personally don't want to be negative about his situation... I chose to be optimistic about his stuff. Perhaps Wind Up chose to change his release dates for reasons that we don't know about. I don't know the complete story.

[Chase]

Yeah, but let's face it... The reason Mark and Flip (and Brian) left Stapp was because he was and is such a big cock. I really used to like him. And I love his voice! But after Creed broke up I really look at Stapp in a new way. Now when I know the truth.

I didn't realize you had such first-hand insight into Creed's affairs.

[Ann Allusion]

I chose to be optimistic about his stuff. Perhaps Wind Up chose to change his release dates for reasons that we don't know about. I don't know the complete story.

Excellent point, Chase...but when it comes to be optimistic reguarding stapp on these bb's...well, you've seen the outcome. As for the reasons why what stapp promised did not come to pass...people need someone to blame...so if it isn't Wind-up's fault..then they will say it is his...instead of understanding that the music business, like life it's self is not always going to gear it's self to please them.

Stay optimistic...just like the rest of us that still "get it", Chase...because the best IS yet to come...:rockon: :D

as for you, Lithium, don't have something nice to say...then why say anything? All you did was show how ignorant you really are...sometimes it's better to be thought a fool and keep your mouth shut than open it and take away all doubt.

[PrtytilImPurple]

Look... you guys have legit reasons for being upset with Stapp. I personally don't want to be negative about his situation... I chose to be optimistic about his stuff. Perhaps Wind Up chose to change his release dates for reasons that we don't know about. I don't know the complete story.

After learning what went on the last months of the Weathered tour you had to wonder if the man would even want to be involved in music again. A sad thing if he didn't. Everyone can choose to believe that delays are because he can't get it together, but I think the truth is just the opposite, and there are reasonable reasons for the delay. Rip me for that one. I really don't think that with some people here there is a legitimate reason for anything when its in relation to Stapp. If it wasn't he's a fuck up and can't even manage to get a CD out it would certainly be something else. And that's not just this place. Its every place. Well maybe not every place but you have to look pretty hard to find one

Like the above poster said. Nobody really knows the complete story, and fact of the matter is we may never know. I just choose not to bitch about it. I'll buy the CD when it comes out in August/September because I think the man still has it.

[RMadd]

Oh, I understand it's all about the money to them, as it is with all other labels. I understand that those four(let's refer to them as the "big four") are the "money-makers" for Wind-Up, but isn't it bad business to have several other artists on the label and not promote them? I'm sure they could be "money-makers" if given the chance. I'm not faulting Wind-Up for promoting the big four, just saying that it is frustrating to see other good artists go un-tapped and un-promoted.
i would imagine that they've judged those "other" bands to be less profitable for spending more time promoting than on their website and on little cards inside CDs. since W-U is in the moneymaking business, i see no reason why they wouldn't have charted out each band's potential given a certain amount of advertising. and W-U pushes the bands that would appeal to the greatest number of people. i'm not saying it's right what W-U's doing by signing bands then not promoting some as much as others, but that's just the business.

[RMadd]

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be someone who rips Lith for that one ;)
lol
after i read his post, i was thinking "god, i hope he tapes his bunghole tonight!"

[PrtytilImPurple]

Now when I know the truth.

There's He said and they said and then somewhere in between lies the truth. My guess is that you have one person's version of the truth the way they like to tell it.

[RMadd]

and you, the other

[tremonti4life04]

Stay optimistic...just like the rest of us that still "get it", Chase...because the best IS yet to come...:rockon: :D

The best has already come, in the form of Alter Bridge :)



as for you, Lithium, don't have something nice to say...then why say anything? All you did was show how ignorant you really are...sometimes it's better to be thought a fool and keep your mouth shut than open it and take away all doubt.

So, the truth hurts does it Ann? I will admit tho that i like scott stapp as a singer, but hardly anything more than that. I respect his charity work, and i hope he flourishes as a solo artist because this world seems like its almost completely devoid of great rock bands. But as a person, i think stapp is an asshole, and his "people" are the only ones that dont notice it because to them, he has this way of making everything he says sound like it was brought down off of mount siani on stone tablets. Where as the AB fans have seen RESULTS already. Thats what it boils down to, results. Ive seen AB's, and now its time for stapp to own up.

[Ana4Stapp]

Ya know, if I make a post like that I get completely torn apart... you make a post like that and no one makes a sound.

More power to you, I agree completely, but the injustices on this board... lol

What an injustice!!!!! No one likes you? Are you not popular on this board? Humm, it's sounds like a persecution ... :rolleyes:lol ;)

As for Stapp, uncertain, titan and the others members are quite right : if Stapps needs a break to spend with his son, his family, to thinking and organize his solo career,whatever, okay, but he shouldn't make promises about record and release a cd in march, august or september 2005... I love Stapp but I'm very disappointed with this long expectation... :(

[Ann Allusion]

The best has already come, in the form of Alter Bridge :)

:laugh: in your opinion... ;)

So, the truth hurts does it Ann?

Whose truth?...Lith's?!...ummm, nope...he, like you and anyone else has the right to believe what you will...won't hold it against ya...but it doesn't have to necessairly have to be the universal consensus.

I will admit tho that i like scott stapp as a singer, but hardly anything more than that. I respect his charity work, and i hope he flourishes as a solo artist because this world seems like its almost completely devoid of great rock bands.

See...you can say something nice... :)

But as a person, i think stapp is an asshole, and his "people" are the only ones that dont notice it because to them, he has this way of making everything he says sound like it was brought down off of mount siani on stone tablets.

you do assume a lot don't you? Do you know the man personally?...unless you do, you may get the IMPRESSION he is an asshole...but unless you know somebody you can't really make such a judgement, now can you?

Where as the AB fans have seen RESULTS already. Thats what it boils down to, results. Ive seen AB's, and now its time for stapp to own up.

how nice that AB fans have gotten their results and are satisfied...good for them...so now they can start askin' for what's next...gettin' antsey when they want new music...hearing the same songs over and over again.

On the other hand...stapp fans still have something to look forward to...as for "owining up" as you put it...not much longer... :D

[tremonti4life04]

Well, i really hopes that he steps up to the plate, and if i like what i hear from him, i might buy his album, but im not getting my hopes up. When i first heard alter bridge, i will admit that i didnt like the vocals, and i thought my hopes were shot down. But when i listened to it more, it grew on me like a third penis, i really enjoyed the fact that it was there, and it was making others around me happy....lol

[tremonti4life04]

and i would just like to say, sorry for the morbid analogy, but i tend to make things up on the fly. and i dont have a second or third penis, it was a hypothetical situation...peace

::THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM KEN::

[Dogstar]

Lmmfao!!!!!!

[TeriB19]

and i would just like to say, sorry for the morbid analogy, but i tend to make things up on the fly. and i dont have a second or third penis, it was a hypothetical situation...peace

::THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM KEN::

Hey Ken, thanks for the clarification. I was about to ask for pictures. ;)

[uncertaindrumer]

You didn't like the VOCALS?! The best part of AB is the vocals as far as I'm concerned... but oh well, to each his own.

And to those people who continue to defend Scott Stapp personally: This man has done NOTHING but give off the impression of an egotistical loser who is in compelte denial about his fan appeal, and who was such a jerk that he lsot his band because of it.

You are right. NONE of us know Scott personally. But THAT is the impression he gives, and if he doesn't LIKE that, then he should be doing EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER to make it seem more and more like he is just an idiot. Now that has nothing to do with music, and I will still buy his album if it is good. I don't think it WILL be, but if it is, I don't care if he is a Satan worshipper, its MUSIC for heaven's sake. But defending his character is ridiculous. You say we can't KNOW. Well, we can't, but EVERYTHING he has done inthe last few years points to him being a seriously screwed up dude, and while he may not be, it is his problem to correct that in the public's eyes. He got his image like this, now he has to change it.

Delaying his album by over a year is certainly not the way to do it.

The best has already come, in the form of Alter Bridge

Indeed.

[OneOmerta]

And to those people who continue to defend Scott Stapp personally: This man has done NOTHING but give off the impression of an egotistical loser who is in compelte denial about his fan appeal, and who was such a jerk that he lsot his band because of it.

but that is your opinion/impression...which may or may not be shared by others. While I know the man has made mistakes...I've gotten over it long long long long ago. I don't know a human being on this earth who hasn't fucked up a time or two. It happens, life goes on, deal. Some of us can find it in us to forgive the mistakes of others..and go forward with a clean slate, and others can't. No biggie. You think the way you want, I'll think the way I want. You won't change my perspective, and I'll keep voicing it as I see fit....and I'm certainly not about to change yours or anyone else's, and I'm sure you will voice yours as well. :cool:

You are right. NONE of us know Scott personally. But THAT is the impression he gives

that is the impression he gives to some ...and to some it isn't. to each his own.

[Dogstar]

I just want to hear the music, dammit :D

[Bridge of Clay]

I just want to hear the music, dammit :D
no further comments, your honor! ;)

[fluttergirl]

:laugh: in your opinion... ;)
many of us find your opinions laughable as well, and find no need to post a smile saying such. who are you to laugh at the members of this board, then cry out when your opinions arent being properly "respected"?
and not just his opinion, many peoples opinion.



Whose truth?...Lith's?!...ummm, nope...he, like you and anyone else has the right to believe what you will...won't hold it against ya...but it doesn't have to necessairly have to be the universal consensus.
obviously, you will hold it against us, because as you have previously showed, you laugh at us, you patronize us, and totally disrespect anyone who has a differeing opinion from yours. and his opinion is that. his opinion. hes not forcing AB down your throat, but you would think that this being a board where only one criteria (from Creed, AB and Stapp) is actually active (AB), and one criteria is being currently supported, that you could either bide your time until Stapp deigns to release some trivial record (which is the feel im getting from the continually postponed release dates).


See...you can say something nice... :)
something i have yet to see from you about anyone who likes AB. or about AB. or about anything OTHER than Stapp.



you do assume a lot don't you? Do you know the man personally?...unless you do, you may get the IMPRESSION he is an asshole...but unless you know somebody you can't really make such a judgement, now can you?

one, by assuming theyre assuming, youre assuming.
we've been over this. fact is fact. george washington was the first president of the united states, whether i met him or not. andrea yates murdered her children, whether i met her or not. having met someone or having known someone DOES NOT change the factual information of what they have or have not done. if looks like a duck and quacks liek a duck....pretty good rule of thumb, its a duck. yes there are exceptions. rarely, at i doubt it at this point.
Scott has given plenty of reasons for fans to be upset with him, and to lose patience. He has also yet to release a CD.
This, Ann, is called FACT.



how nice that AB fans have gotten their results and are satisfied...good for them...so now they can start askin' for what's next...gettin' antsey when they want new music...hearing the same songs over and over again.
And Stapp fans have not? theyve had, what, one new song since the Creed breakup? theres a difference in patiently waiting for a record, and simply refusing to face the idea that maybe, possibly, there have been other reasons than excuses for the lack of a record, which, in all honesty, i applaud most of y'all with, i simply couldnt wait any longer, that and i wasnt all keyed up with that much anticipation anyways. if it ever comes out, i'll listen to it.

On the other hand...stapp fans still have something to look forward to...as for "owining up" as you put it...not much longer... :D
and how is that "on the other hand"? AB didnt fall over when their CD was put out. we have plenty more to look foward to. again, i find it odd that you deem his CD far more imortant, if not omnipotent compared to ABs.

Ann, I'll be honest. I find your condescending tone and demeanor totally unnecessary. i cannot fathom what makes you come to this board, and pick on the members that like AB. please, explain it to me. there IS, beleive it or not a group of us do not like, or do not prefer stapp to AB, and yet, we do not treat you as you do us.
And when you respond to this (if you dont ignore it like the last one), if you would please return the favor i have paid you. leave out the cute smilies, the innuendos that we all get.
please, for ONCE, be completely open, and honest. i would much prefer that.
i, personally, would like to become a member of this board without having to worry if my opinion will be dissected and picked apart and hounded until i dont even feel like supporting it.

[Agent D]

many of us find your opinions laughable as well, and find no need to post a smile saying such. who are you to laugh at the members of this board, then cry out when your opinions arent being properly "respected"?
and not just his opinion, many peoples opinion.



obviously, you will hold it against us, because as you have previously showed, you laugh at us, you patronize us, and totally disrespect anyone who has a differeing opinion from yours. and his opinion is that. his opinion. hes not forcing AB down your throat, but you would think that this being a board where only one criteria (from Creed, AB and Stapp) is actually active (AB), and one criteria is being currently supported, that you could either bide your time until Stapp deigns to release some trivial record (which is the feel im getting from the continually postponed release dates).


something i have yet to see from you about anyone who likes AB. or about AB. or about anything OTHER than Stapp.



one, by assuming theyre assuming, youre assuming.
we've been over this. fact is fact. george washington was the first president of the united states, whether i met him or not. andrea yates murdered her children, whether i met her or not. having met someone or having known someone DOES NOT change the factual information of what they have or have not done. if looks like a duck and quacks liek a duck....pretty good rule of thumb, its a duck. yes there are exceptions. rarely, at i doubt it at this point.
Scott has given plenty of reasons for fans to be upset with him, and to lose patience. He has also yet to release a CD.
This, Ann, is called FACT.



And Stapp fans have not? theyve had, what, one new song since the Creed breakup? theres a difference in patiently waiting for a record, and simply refusing to face the idea that maybe, possibly, there have been other reasons than excuses for the lack of a record, which, in all honesty, i applaud most of y'all with, i simply couldnt wait any longer, that and i wasnt all keyed up with that much anticipation anyways. if it ever comes out, i'll listen to it.

and how is that "on the other hand"? AB didnt fall over when their CD was put out. we have plenty more to look foward to. again, i find it odd that you deem his CD far more imortant, if not omnipotent compared to ABs.

Ann, I'll be honest. I find your condescending tone and demeanor totally unnecessary. i cannot fathom what makes you come to this board, and pick on the members that like AB. please, explain it to me. there IS, beleive it or not a group of us do not like, or do not prefer stapp to AB, and yet, we do not treat you as you do us.
And when you respond to this (if you dont ignore it like the last one), if you would please return the favor i have paid you. leave out the cute smilies, the innuendos that we all get.
please, for ONCE, be completely open, and honest. i would much prefer that.
i, personally, would like to become a member of this board without having to worry if my opinion will be dissected and picked apart and hounded until i dont even feel like supporting it.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Amen, girl.

[Bridge of Clay]

AMBER:

I ABSOLOUTELY LOVE YOU, with all my heart, with all my soul.

[Ann Allusion]

Amber, you asked for a reply...

Explaining my self is something i should not have to do, but this time i will, and i expect that such requests from you or anyone else that has a problem with any of the comments i have made recently and/or over the years will cease.

If you choose to take any of my following statements as condesending, then i will be wasting my time, as well as yours, and i will have to wonder why you asked in the first place. Otherwise, if you and anyone else that reads this choose to look at it without predjudice, you just might learn a thing or two...

Something i have learned about BB's is that, like the society we live in, they harbor diverse personalities...not everyone is going to agree with everybody else...and most will have differing opinions...and what's the saying about opinions? I'm sure that you know it.

Well to keep my feelings about opinions short...that is how we express what we choose to think...i can respect some opinions..and others i find humourus...or "laughable" to use your words...but over all, that doesn't mean that the person with that opinion is being dissed...it just means that i don't agree with their thoughts on the matter.

Am i attempting to change their mind? No. Do i want to change their mind? No. Because you see, opinions are unique to the person that has them. The only ones that can change their opinions are themselves...and it's not my place to do so, nor is it anyone elses place to judge my opinions, or assume i am attempting to change their opinions. :eek:

So...with that thought in mind, why is it so difficult to accept the fact that my opinions may differ from those of the majority and like you, or anyone else, i have every right to post what i believe.

Give me an HONEST answer why only SOME are allowed to say what they choose and others are not....that seems to be an ongoing theme around certain BB's...

As for AB, live and let live....I don't like their music, i gave them several listens from the beginning, even have their songs on CD, and they are just not what i'm into, either vocally or lyrically. I've never deneyed the talent that is AB. After all, the experience they gained from Creed is what got them to where they are now, as well as most of the fan's they have. I made the choice several months ago to say i wish them well in their endeavours both musically and personally where ever life takes them.

Now, if you or anyone assumes this post to be condesending...well then...a suggestion....get a backbone and grow up...because NOBODY can make anyone doubt themselves unless they already feel confused reguarding their beliefs and opinions in the first place.

[Dogstar]

no further comments, your honor! ;)
LOL :D

[titan9]

Wow, like the Energizer Bunny, this thread keeps going and going and going.:laugh: It seems like this happens to EVERY Stapp thread in this forum. It always turns into an argument, which is unfortunate. To be honest, I think everyone here(including myself) is guilty of not respecting another's opinion. We all have differing opinions on Mr. Stapp; some hate the heck out of him as a person; some love the heck out of him as a musician.

As I have said before, I think you have to draw the line between the musician and the person. We all know Stapp as a musician fairly well, but we do not know Stapp as a person? We think we do, just based upon what some people have said, based upon what his bandmates have said, based upon what the media has said. But how do we know for certain that these people are telling the complete truth? We don't. I am not saying that Tremonti, Phillips and Marshall are liars, all I am saying is that it is possible that not everything they say is the complete truth. I'm not going to take sides, though. It seems rather pointless for me to do that, and, besides that, I separate the musician from the person.

I love Tremonti, Phillips, Marshall and Stapp as musicians, but can't say whether I like them as people or not. I attribute that to the fact that I've never met them, don't know them personall and have never even seen them live in concert. The vast majority of these arguments are caused by someone saying that Stapp is an asshole as a person. Then another person posts back saying he isn't and it really escalates from there. I'd like to see just one thread that does not turn into an argument about how good of a person Stapp is. Let's try to stick to how good of a musician he is. Of course, all of this is just my opinion and you can take it as you will. I definitely don't want to argue with anyone on here, lol.

[uncertaindrumer]

Well I don't particularly like him as a musician either, but the reason these thigns always degrade down into personal issues is...

THERE IS NO MUSIC TO ARGUE ABOUT. If he had come out with a friggin CD that would be one thing. But he HASN'T. We can't talk about Stapp the musician except when it comes to Creed, and I think all of you would agree you liked him in Creed. So... no discussion there. Now, all that's left is to talk about him as a person becuase he HAS no music.

[titan9]

True. Perhaps once we get that solo CD, these arguments about how "Stapp, the man, is a jerk" will die down. I just wish that the arguments about him, as a person, would stop, even though we really can't talk about his solo career, musically speaking. I guess that, at this point(and until the solo CD comes out), all there is left to do is either talk about Stapp's personal life, or really talk about nothing at all. I'd rather see no talk than talk about something that always, ALWAYS, leads to arguments. Of course, this is just my personal preference.:)

[Ann Allusion]

I just wish that the arguments about him, as a person, would stop, even though we really can't talk about his solo career, musically speaking.

realistaclly speaking, titan...shy of not mentioning him at all on any bb that shares space with AB, disagreements about him as a person and as a musician, sadly, will not cease. Even when positive reports of his progress make their way here...it's still never enough for some.

too many people feel animosity towards stapp, for one reason or another...and are unwilling to just let things go and give the man a chance.

and of course anyone that supports him...musically and as another human being, will always be accused of starting trouble...ie:arguments.

[titan9]

I definitely support Scott as a musician, there's no denying that. But I can't really judge him; can't really support him, as a person. Only because I don't know him personally. I've heard good and bad about him as a person, but I prefer not to judge, I prefer not to say he's a jerk as a person or he's an angel as a person. I'd rather just focus on the music, talk about that, and leave it at that.

[Trimontana]

many of us find your opinions laughable as well, and find no need to post a smile saying such. who are you to laugh at the members of this board, then cry out when your opinions arent being properly "respected"?
and not just his opinion, many peoples opinion.



obviously, you will hold it against us, because as you have previously showed, you laugh at us, you patronize us, and totally disrespect anyone who has a differeing opinion from yours. and his opinion is that. his opinion. hes not forcing AB down your throat, but you would think that this being a board where only one criteria (from Creed, AB and Stapp) is actually active (AB), and one criteria is being currently supported, that you could either bide your time until Stapp deigns to release some trivial record (which is the feel im getting from the continually postponed release dates).


something i have yet to see from you about anyone who likes AB. or about AB. or about anything OTHER than Stapp.



one, by assuming theyre assuming, youre assuming.
we've been over this. fact is fact. george washington was the first president of the united states, whether i met him or not. andrea yates murdered her children, whether i met her or not. having met someone or having known someone DOES NOT change the factual information of what they have or have not done. if looks like a duck and quacks liek a duck....pretty good rule of thumb, its a duck. yes there are exceptions. rarely, at i doubt it at this point.
Scott has given plenty of reasons for fans to be upset with him, and to lose patience. He has also yet to release a CD.
This, Ann, is called FACT.



And Stapp fans have not? theyve had, what, one new song since the Creed breakup? theres a difference in patiently waiting for a record, and simply refusing to face the idea that maybe, possibly, there have been other reasons than excuses for the lack of a record, which, in all honesty, i applaud most of y'all with, i simply couldnt wait any longer, that and i wasnt all keyed up with that much anticipation anyways. if it ever comes out, i'll listen to it.

and how is that "on the other hand"? AB didnt fall over when their CD was put out. we have plenty more to look foward to. again, i find it odd that you deem his CD far more imortant, if not omnipotent compared to ABs.

Ann, I'll be honest. I find your condescending tone and demeanor totally unnecessary. i cannot fathom what makes you come to this board, and pick on the members that like AB. please, explain it to me. there IS, beleive it or not a group of us do not like, or do not prefer stapp to AB, and yet, we do not treat you as you do us.
And when you respond to this (if you dont ignore it like the last one), if you would please return the favor i have paid you. leave out the cute smilies, the innuendos that we all get.
please, for ONCE, be completely open, and honest. i would much prefer that.
i, personally, would like to become a member of this board without having to worry if my opinion will be dissected and picked apart and hounded until i dont even feel like supporting it.

WWWOOOWWW woman, well said. Best post i ever read in a long time...i am still amazed :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Ann Allusion]

I definitely support Scott as a musician, there's no denying that. But I can't really judge him; can't really support him, as a person. Only because I don't know him personally. I've heard good and bad about him as a person, but I prefer not to judge, I prefer not to say he's a jerk as a person or he's an angel as a person. I'd rather just focus on the music, talk about that, and leave it at that.

and that is your choice..it is what you have chosen to do...and no one should hold it as a fault against you...by the same token...there are many of us that have chosen to support both the music and the man.

Might help if we look at it this way...

There's this guy playing music on the street corner and you pass by on your way to work every morning...drop a few coins into the guitar case..sometimes even stop to listen if you're not running late...you really like his music and how he communicates his songs/lyrics...they say something to you...yet, you do not know this guy, you've only said hello in passing or maybe not have even spoken at all... All you know of him is he speaks to you thru his music...and since the music/lyrics are part of him...you feel you can relate.

One day while you are listening to him a local gang begins verbally harrassing him...and the verbal harrassment escalates until it becomes down right ridiculous and degrading...

again, you know nothing about this person on a one to one basis yet, would you not step forward and say something reguarding the attitude of this group that is harrassing him?...he may be ignoring the taunts and harrassment, yet, isn't it quite possible that he is feeling the sting of each of those words being thrown at him?

This gang, btw, doesn't know this street corner musician on a personal level either...seems one of them asked him to play a song and he said later...and that just set 'em off...for some people that's all it takes...not getting what they want when they want it.

We are our brother's keeper, whether we know them on a one to one basis or not...it is about compassion and love...not only for them...but for ourselves as well...turn your back on one human being, when you could have shown support....what will happen when it's your turn? It's all connected.

the above, though a story, was meant to give an example of supporting another person, even if you don't know them on a personal level....and it doesn't matter WHO that person is...it is a common courtsey that we would show to one another, i would hope, because we are all on this Earth Ship together.

[RMadd]

Amber, I think it's about time I add you to my "My Hero" list.... that was one helluva post up above!

"started talkin' shit, whaddaya know, i reached back like a :pimp: and i slapped that ho!"

you certainly have a way w/ words

[RMadd]

Ann, i assume that, in your story, Scott is represented by the musician, all us "stapp-haters" are the gang, and you're the passer-by?
i find many things wrong w/ this:
first, it seems pretty high-handed of you to compare us to a gang. it's more of what a political scientist would call "public opinion." we are not harassing him to his face, nor anywhere near him. we're engaging in, by and large, civil discussion about his career in an area reserved for such discussion, positive or negative.
how would you like it if i used the following example:
let's say you're a tiny little country in, say, Europe. we "stapp-bashers" are the US or Britain. stapp is a large belligerent state. the belligerent takes over the small state. the US & Britain do all they can to free the small state from oppression of thought, speech, actions, etc, but to no avail. the small state actually likes being under the "caring" wing of the belligerent, sticking up for and believing every last thing the belligerent says. who sounds more horrible now?

second, at least in my experience, seeing street musicians before & after Cardinals' games and the like, hoping for people to drop some change in their instrument cases, most, i would assume (and i'm sure many many others would agree) are prolly homeless or under similar circumstances that would necessitate such performances in exchange for a hope for a good samaritan to drop some change in while passing by. as such, it seems a bit odd to compare scott to, essentially, a defenseless homeless person. yes, he is somewhat defenseless on here (save for those of you sticking up for him). but he's pretty much been out of work for quite a few months now (receiving very little original profit from album sales, etc... nothing from tours, marketing, and the like) and seems to be doing reasonably well.

[titan9]

and that is your choice..it is what you have chosen to do...and no one should hold it as a fault against you...by the same token...there are many of us that have chosen to support both the music and the man.

Might help if we look at it this way...

There's this guy playing music on the street corner and you pass by on your way to work every morning...drop a few coins into the guitar case..sometimes even stop to listen if you're not running late...you really like his music and how he communicates his songs/lyrics...they say something to you...yet, you do not know this guy, you've only said hello in passing or maybe not have even spoken at all... All you know of him is he speaks to you thru his music...and since the music/lyrics are part of him...you feel you can relate.

One day while you are listening to him a local gang begins verbally harrassing him...and the verbal harrassment escalates until it becomes down right ridiculous and degrading...

again, you know nothing about this person on a one to one basis yet, would you not step forward and say something reguarding the attitude of this group that is harrassing him?...he may be ignoring the taunts and harrassment, yet, isn't it quite possible that he is feeling the sting of each of those words being thrown at him?

This gang, btw, doesn't know this street corner musician on a personal level either...seems one of them asked him to play a song and he said later...and that just set 'em off...for some people that's all it takes...not getting what they want when they want it.

We are our brother's keeper, whether we know them on a one to one basis or not...it is about compassion and love...not only for them...but for ourselves as well...turn your back on one human being, when you could have shown support....what will happen when it's your turn? It's all connected.

the above, though a story, was meant to give an example of supporting another person, even if you don't know them on a personal level....and it doesn't matter WHO that person is...it is a common courtsey that we would show to one another, i would hope, because we are all on this Earth Ship together.

You've made a good point and I have to applaud you on that. I do hate to see the negativeness surrounding Stapp, the person, and have even defended him in the past, as a person. However, I realized that I really couldn't defend him as a person, because I don't know him as a person. I only know him as a musician. Of course, everyone has a differing opinion about judging Stapp the person, and my opinion isn't the same as yours. That I can accept, and that you have clearly accepted.

I hate to see anyone on here getting jumped on for voicing their opinion. It has happened to you, Ann, and has happened to other people(even myself in the past). It does seem like the pro-Stapp people get this treatment a whole lot more than the pro-Alter Bridge people, which is even more disheartening to see. It's really terrible the division that has occurred since the Creed break-up. You've got the pro-Stapp, non-Alter Bridge fans; the pro-Alter Bridge, non-Stapp fans; the pro-Stapp, pro-Alter Bridge fans. I've seen a lot of fighting between those first two groups, which really sucks. Many people from those two groups were once united, together, as Creed fans. Now that the break-up has happened, they are divided, arguing with each other.

The arguments are almost always about the guys(Stapp, Tremonti, Phillips, Marshall) as people, not as musicians. Stapp people jump all over Alter Bridge people for saying less than kind things about Stapp the person, while Alter Bridge people jump all over Stapp people for saying less than kind things about the guys as people. And if you defend Stapp and don't back down, you're called a Stapp worshipper. Likewise, if you do that with Alter Bridge, you're called an Alter Bridge worshipper. It seems to me that Stapp fights are most common around here. Any new Stapp thread is poluted with arguments about how Stapp is as a person. People who clearly don't like Stapp as a person, come in here and talk about him as a person. The Stapp supporters who are sick of the beating that Scott has taken in recent years, come in and defend Stapp. And it escalates from there.

These forums are a wonderful place to hang out. The only thing I don't like are the arguments about the people behind the music. If there were a few less arguments about the people behind the music, this board, in my opinion, would be a better place. Yes, I have ranted a bit with this post(and perhaps other posts in this thread), but I felt that I had to get my point across. Popular or not, everyone has an opinion. Let's respect each other's opinions, and, hopefully, there will be less arguments and these forums will be a better place for everyone, Stapp and non-Stapp supporters alike.

[Ann Allusion]

Love (compassion) looks through a telescope; envy, through a microscope.
~Josh Billings

word!

as i said before everyone has an opinion.

[RMadd]

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=boiling_blood

I like #2, esp. the cartoon

[uncertaindrumer]

Your story is ridiculous, Ann, because in the story, the guy playing on the street corner did not:

Drive his other band members out of the band.

Promise his fans music and then deliver none.

Get himself drugged out and completely ruin various shows of his which people paid MONEY FOR.

Generally act like a jerk at all times.

Never give anyone a SINGLE reason to think he was a decent, humble person.

Act like your stereotypical pretentious rock star who has nothing but his own interest in mind.

There is a big difference between that and a homeless guy playing music on the street. And I also wish we could talk about Stapp the musician but I am PRETTY sure that if I were to start insulting his lyrics I would get jumped on for that as well.

[The Lithium]

I didn't realize you had such first-hand insight into Creed's affairs.
Read/listen to the interviews for both AB and Stapp and you will see that they are both saying TOTALLY different things. Like Stapp said that he and Mark sat down for 2 hours and picked out the setlist for the Greatest Hits album. While Mark didn't want it to be realised at all. And if you look in the booklet and Wind-up guy named Ryan Smith is the one who made the setlist.

[titan9]

And he didn't do a good job with that setlist, lol! But, in all seriousness, I wonder if maybe Wind-Up told Stapp to say that in the interview. I don't understand why he would flat out lie like that, as it would only damage his reputation, which has already been damaged over the years. So that's why I'm wondering if Wind-Up perhaps told Stapp to say that, to perhaps make things look better for the GH CD. I'm not taking anyone's side, or anything, but it's something that I have wondered since I first heard Stapp say that and then Mark say another thing.

[Bridge of Clay]

Amber, I think it's about time I add you to my "My Hero" list.... that was one helluva post up above!

"started talkin' shit, whaddaya know, i reached back like a :pimp: and i slapped that ho!"

you certainly have a way w/ words
Back off...

I said I love her first! if she dumps me you're free to try! LOL!

[tremonti4life04]

Im so poor, my bologna doesnt have a first name...

[fluttergirl]

Amber, you asked for a reply...

Explaining my self is something i should not have to do, but this time i will, and i expect that such requests from you or anyone else that has a problem with any of the comments i have made recently and/or over the years will cease.

If you choose to take any of my following statements as condesending, then i will be wasting my time, as well as yours, and i will have to wonder why you asked in the first place. Otherwise, if you and anyone else that reads this choose to look at it without predjudice, you just might learn a thing or two...

Something i have learned about BB's is that, like the society we live in, they harbor diverse personalities...not everyone is going to agree with everybody else...and most will have differing opinions...and what's the saying about opinions? I'm sure that you know it.

Well to keep my feelings about opinions short...that is how we express what we choose to think...i can respect some opinions..and others i find humourus...or "laughable" to use your words...but over all, that doesn't mean that the person with that opinion is being dissed...it just means that i don't agree with their thoughts on the matter.

Am i attempting to change their mind? No. Do i want to change their mind? No. Because you see, opinions are unique to the person that has them. The only ones that can change their opinions are themselves...and it's not my place to do so, nor is it anyone elses place to judge my opinions, or assume i am attempting to change their opinions. :eek:

So...with that thought in mind, why is it so difficult to accept the fact that my opinions may differ from those of the majority and like you, or anyone else, i have every right to post what i believe.

Give me an HONEST answer why only SOME are allowed to say what they choose and others are not....that seems to be an ongoing theme around certain BB's...

As for AB, live and let live....I don't like their music, i gave them several listens from the beginning, even have their songs on CD, and they are just not what i'm into, either vocally or lyrically. I've never deneyed the talent that is AB. After all, the experience they gained from Creed is what got them to where they are now, as well as most of the fan's they have. I made the choice several months ago to say i wish them well in their endeavours both musically and personally where ever life takes them.

Now, if you or anyone assumes this post to be condesending...well then...a suggestion....get a backbone and grow up...because NOBODY can make anyone doubt themselves unless they already feel confused reguarding their beliefs and opinions in the first place.
it is absolutely amazing the amount of skill you have at ignoring me or twisting what i say.
amazing.
i respect peoples opinions who are different from mine. so i dont know what thats all about.
lets take Ana4Stapp for example (no specific reason, other than i think she wont mind me using her for an example, lets just) i do not agree with her stance on Stapp. it is different than mine. however, when she says that she is a Stapp fan, i respect that. i do not laugh at her, i do not mock her for being so. you, however, are one of the few who i have never seen be in disagreeance with someone in either a mature/uncondescending "its-your-loss" way. there are many views on many things, and very few truths. who says theres only one right opinion? who says there even is a right opinion?
direct question ann, DIRECT:
why is it ok for you to disect other peoples opinions, and for us to even comment on yours, it becomes a malicious attack?
and how is it not condescending for you to, oh, i dont know, for example, call Dan "D", and then, when asked to stop, merely continue?
how is that not disrespectful of a member of this board?
Everyone who isnt so pretenious to assume that there isnt a possibility that they could be wrong doubts themselves.
most people dont run around assuming theyre right about everything.

lets make a deal. i wont bother you anymore if you dont make any more patronizing posts based on difference of opinion concerning AB/Stapp. im sure many others would agree to this as well.
deal?

(marcos and ryan, yall crack me up)

[RMadd]

Back off...

I said I love her first! if she dumps me you're free to try! LOL!
hey now, son, don't get so defensive lol i didn't profess my love for her, she's just one of my heroes on here

[fluttergirl]

is that possible with you having 13.333333333333 times as many posts as i do?

[The Lithium]

And he didn't do a good job with that setlist, lol! But, in all seriousness, I wonder if maybe Wind-Up told Stapp to say that in the interview. I don't understand why he would flat out lie like that, as it would only damage his reputation, which has already been damaged over the years. So that's why I'm wondering if Wind-Up perhaps told Stapp to say that, to perhaps make things look better for the GH CD. I'm not taking anyone's side, or anything, but it's something that I have wondered since I first heard Stapp say that and then Mark say another thing.
Yeah, maybe. But still... Due to AB Stapp is nothing but a liar. And he lied about stuff back in Creed too, maybe that's just the way he works. I mean, he also says he keeps contact with the guys while "the guys" just wanna get away from him.

I think the reason why he said might be that he want people to remember him as "The Creed guy". He'd sell more records. While AB does NOT want to be known as "Ah, the Creed spin-off".

[TeriB19]

Im so poor, my bologna doesnt have a first name...
ROFLMAO!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Frankie]

Not sure why I'm bothering...other than Titan seemed genuinely concerned about this. Here is the one time the question was asked about the GH's...and here is Scott's answer. He just answered the question the way it was asked..."do you sit down?" "Yeah we sit down." You may think he implied it and perhaps he did...but Scott never said they were in the same room...or even in the same state for that matter. And he certainly never said they sat together for two hours. If you are going embelish what Scott says...you should make sure it's not down in writing somewhere.

DON: Now, who makes the decisions on this?

SCOTT: Me and Mark.

DON: Does Creed get together?

SCOTT: Me and Mark. Yeah. Me and Mark.

DON: And so you sit down and decide what out-takes or what behind the scenes and some of those...

SCOTT: Yeah we sit down and go through it.

[uncertaindrumer]

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of what Stapp says are either direct contradictions of himself, contradictions of what other people have said, or jsut obvious, blatant lies.

[Ann Allusion]

it is absolutely amazing the amount of skill you have at ignoring me or twisting what i say.
amazing.
i respect peoples opinions who are different from mine. so i dont know what thats all about.
lets take Ana4Stapp for example (no specific reason, other than i think she wont mind me using her for an example, lets just) i do not agree with her stance on Stapp. it is different than mine. however, when she says that she is a Stapp fan, i respect that. i do not laugh at her, i do not mock her for being so. you, however, are one of the few who i have never seen be in disagreeance with someone in either a mature/uncondescending "its-your-loss" way. there are many views on many things, and very few truths. who says theres only one right opinion? who says there even is a right opinion?
direct question ann, DIRECT:
why is it ok for you to disect other peoples opinions, and for us to even comment on yours, it becomes a malicious attack?
and how is it not condescending for you to, oh, i dont know, for example, call Dan "D", and then, when asked to stop, merely continue?
how is that not disrespectful of a member of this board?
Everyone who isnt so pretenious to assume that there isnt a possibility that they could be wrong doubts themselves.
most people dont run around assuming theyre right about everything.

lets make a deal. i wont bother you anymore if you dont make any more patronizing posts based on difference of opinion concerning AB/Stapp. im sure many others would agree to this as well.
deal?

I too am in amazment, amber, as your reply is nothing less than i would have expected...this same ol' song and dance has been around since i have been posting...i'm "patronizing and condesending"...but it seems to only come from a "certain" group of people...and they know who they are. Thing is, to you and them...nothing short of my never posting another remark or comment again reguarding any member of AB or stapp, will continue to be interpretated as "patronizing and condesending".

i realize that my comments aren't going to please everyone...and ya know what...I'M NOT TRYING TO. If anyone takes my comments as disrespectful towards them PERSONALLY...that is their choice (interpretation)...because believe me, if i really chose to DISS somebody, i most certainly would not be posting as i do in my replies to the often rude answers back to me.

So if you want to end this thing...fine...but if i have something to say...i will continue to do so...and the only way i will be silenced is to be banned.

[Bridge of Clay]

hey now, son, don't get so defensive lol i didn't profess my love for her, she's just one of my heroes on here
ok, daddy! hehehe

it's all about the fun man! She's not just a hero... she's the queen, the a-b.net queen! lol

(and I'm still the pimp! :P )

[Bridge of Clay]

I too am in amazment, amber, as your reply is nothing less than i would have expected...this same ol' song and dance has been around since i have been posting...i'm "patronizing and condesending"...but it seems to only come from a "certain" group of people...and they know who they are. Thing is, to you and them...nothing short of my never posting another remark or comment again reguarding any member of AB or stapp, will continue to be interpretated as "patronizing and condesending".

i realize that my comments aren't going to please everyone...and ya know what...I'M NOT TRYING TO. If anyone takes my comments as disrespectful towards them PERSONALLY...that is their choice (interpretation)...because believe me, if i really chose to DISS somebody, i most certainly would not be posting as i do in my replies to the often rude answers back to me.

So if you want to end this thing...fine...but if i have something to say...i will continue to do so...and the only way i will be silenced is to be banned.
"this same ol'song and dance" has been around? yes it is. Surprise, surprise... you're the one singing, playing and dancing it.

I don't know if you're really just defending Stapp, which would be fine by me... but what it really seems to me you just feel good about being the one that has the different opinion, being the one that bring up controversies, being the martyr, the one who fought alone against everybody else.

And what leads me to think that? Let's take Ana4Stapp for example, again. She's more of a Stapp fan than an AB fan, although she likes both. Still, you don't see her causing arguments or people complaining over the same blah blah blah posts. Why? Coz her posts are respectful and she doesn't try and get in everybody else's nerves on purpose. But then... you may say she's an exception. Is she? Let's see... (forgive me for pointing fingers, but they're all for good people) Frankie, Julie, Robyn, titan9 (forgot your name, sorry!) and lot of other people that unfortunately aren't as active as they used to be.

I know some of them left the board think people got too harsh on Stapp, but still I don't recall of them ever causing trouble. They were always ethic and respectful.

It's clear you refuse to end this thing, although Amber proposed. Why will you push and try to force people changing their minds? They won't. The any person that can do that for them is the one and only Scott Stapp in his new solo endeavor. I wish with all my heart that he really had a heart change and made peace with himself. It seems he did, I wish he got rid of his issues and is a happy man now.

So all of the above is me trying to be nice... but if you'll reply and try to twist my words... And I honestly admit if I had more time now I could elaborate it better coz I'm not saying all I wanted...

to make things short, the thing is plain and simple:

Your current attitude is not welcomed here, in case you didn't notice it. Either change it so we can have a peaceful board as it used to be or farewell, good bye for the good of us and for your own.

We don't want to change your opinion towards Stapp or Alter Bridge. What we do want is to have a nice bulletin board to enjoy our conversations. We'd love to have you here without creating unnecessary arguments.. and all it takes is you to ve respectful. Yep, key-word: respect. Being polite is not hard and it won't hurt.

And I apologize if I was harsh, but I feel it was necessary to say the things above.

[fluttergirl]

ding ding ding
we have a winner
marcos, i love you too....

[titan9]

Well, Marcos(by the way, my name is Michael, but I rarely go by it on forums, lol), if you do remember, I did defend Scott a heckuva lot a few months ago. And by that, I mean, I defended him as a person. But like I believe I have said earlier in this same thread(the thread is so long, I can't remember if I said it or not!) I finally realized, who am I to defend Scott Stapp the person? I mean, really, I don't know him at all. I know and love his music. I'll defend the heck out of Scott Stapp the musician, but the person? I just can't do that.

Even in those posts in which I defended Stapp the person, I always tried to be respectful of other people's opinions but at the same time, never backed down in the heat of an argument. Eventually, the argument with me and another person(or, at times, a few different people) died down and eventually, we found something to agree on, something to make peace with. The discussions I had with non-Stapp fans always were pretty peaceful and not hateful in the slightest bit. I never felt like I was being torn down as a person, just having my opinion questioned. Which was fine by me.

I have realized that not every single thing I say will be applauded by someone, or even agreed with. I realize that it is my opinion, and by saying it, I, in a way, am opening myself up to harsh criticism or possibly a heated discussion. But if I came here to post my opinion, I need to be prepared for someone to disect it and need to be prepared to defend my opinion if necessary. And, really, I don't have to, because, afterall, it is my opinion. If people don't like it, fine by me, but I'll try to respect the fact they don't like it. I'll respect their opinion and hope they do the same for me.

I have also noticed that a lot of Stapp fans that have been here in the past, are hardly active here anymore. It could be a combination of things: PBF, lack of interest in these awesome forums or maybe even people who just think that they are un-welcome here. I honestly think that two of those things I mentioned are mostly to blame: PBF(an awesome fan site, by the way) and those people feeling un-welcome just because of the treatment that some are receiving, just because some are having their opinion questioned. People shouldn't feel that way, and I personally don't. I get my opinion of Stapp's music questioned here, but I don't mind it at all. It doesn't make me feel un-welcomed here. Because, again, it's just my opinion.

I wish that everyone here could get along and these fights would cease to exist. But, unfortunately, that probably won't happen. I guess all we can do is just try to be respectful of one another's opinion.

[fluttergirl]

exactly.
i know that we disagree on that, but there is no love lost between us, no?
we get along perfectly amiably.
and i respect the way you defend stapp, honestly, i do.

[titan9]

And I respect your opinion as well. That's really all you can do on these forums, is respect one another's opinions. That does not mean we have to agree with someone else's opinion, just attempt to find something about it that we can respect.

[Ann Allusion]

Marcos...PM

[Bridge of Clay]

saw the pop-up box. will get back at ya when I'm home.

[fluttergirl]

and Ann, one more thing, i dont want you to think im telling you to post, or not. i would never pressume to do so.
however, i will ask that you post with respect. im not aware entirely how you took that, but on reading your response, i think you either misunderstood me or didnt quite read my post. and i will tell you, if youre going to be disrespectful although it may be your choice, theres no point. if it has no respect or understanding in it, it has no value or worth in its words.
wether or not you are capaple of posting with respect is up to you, however.

[RMadd]

is that possible with you having 13.333333333333 times as many posts as i do?
and you know math?????? wow, i think Marcos might need to make room after all lol
hey, if someone impresses me w/ sharp witticisms & a highly evolved sense of humor, they're on my list, regardless of how many posts they might have. it just so happens that most of my heroes have more posts than others.

[fluttergirl]

i think...i was just touched a little bit there.

[tremonti4life04]

i love cheese

[Bridge of Clay]

you have the distance factor working on your favor :(

[Ann Allusion]

and Ann, one more thing, i dont want you to think im telling you to post, or not. i would never pressume to do so.
however, i will ask that you post with respect. im not aware entirely how you took that, but on reading your response, i think you either misunderstood me or didnt quite read my post. and i will tell you, if youre going to be disrespectful although it may be your choice, theres no point. if it has no respect or understanding in it, it has no value or worth in its words.
wether or not you are capaple of posting with respect is up to you, however.

when a person feels invalidated, i realize that it is difficult to show respect...but it seems that the words and phrases that make so many feel they are being invalidated are also words and phrases used to express or share concern, give advice, and can be used in a positive way as well.

One of the requirements of respect is not feeling invalidated...therein, is where i find confusion, for if one uses the words and phrases that cause invalidation, even tho they are used without malice...they will still be taken as disrespectful, condesending and patronizing.

respect is a word that has many meanings to many different people...it would be difficult for me to post with respect and still meet each person's expectation of their personal meaning of the word.

So, with that in mind, the only option i would have would be to either not comment at all...or make a comment in support of the other person and their belief and feelings (opinions) without interjecting my belief and feelings (opinions) at risk of causing them to feel invalidated, and thus disrespected.

and should i initiate a thread and i felt invalidated by someones comment and disrespected, would i not still be accused of being disrespectful to them if my return comment expressed any feelings (opinions) of my own..because then i would not be respecting their feelings (opinions), according to the rules of respect.

How do you feel about what i have said? Doesn't this strike you as a somewhat counterproductive way to make comments on a BB?...

just a couple of thoughts that came to mind.

~peace, out.

[Ana4Stapp]

.
[QUOTE]lets take Ana4Stapp for example (no specific reason, other than i think she wont mind me using her for an example, lets just) i do not agree with her stance on Stapp. it is different than mine. however, when she says that she is a Stapp fan, i respect that. i do not laugh at her, i do not mock her for being so.


I really don't mind, but (not sure why you choosed me, :)) I'd like to clarify something:

yeah, I'm a Stapp fan, but first of all I'm a Creed fan, like the most people here...I love their songs and miss them...
I'm also a AB fan, actually I listened to ODR much more than Creed songs...I love Tremo and like Myles's voice a lot...
As for Scott Stapp, I love this guy, like a musician, he is a great singer and a real good lyricist... But I'm not a "blind" fan of him, dont' put him on altar like some members here...(even though I respect their opinions) Actually I'm very frustrated how Stapp is acting, taking so much time to release his solo cd, wrtiting letters that gave us nothing new and subscribing them as SS Creed solo'05,saying "in august, maybe in september" is album is going to be released... :mad:


The first time i listened to AB I noticed the guys were HAPPY making very good music and I thought how Stapp lost it...how he was distant...I'm not saying he distroyed Creed, but you know how he contributed to the end...
I 'm Stapp fan, but I have to admit when he's wrong...and do you know something? Sometimes I think he just didn't believe Creed could really ends and the other guys, specially Tremonti could continue without him...playing, recording cds, or that is, surviving...

As for respecting different opinions, I'm sure it's the right thing to do, on boards... People here have the right to think different and expose it...and we have to respect the divergent opinions... by the way,mocking or laughing at someone with a different idea is not a good example of maturity...and this what we expected from the members here.

I can give you an easy example: I'm a Stapp fan and miss Creed, but this is not an obstacle to make such good friends like uncertaindrumer, who really dislikes Stapps, prefers AB stuff and also says "I don't miss Creed" ...and I admire this guy for being honest (not rude) all the time he posts. ;)
In fact,he's very kind and respectful with me and we started it with a little discussion...lol, but now, actually,we respect our differences, what no means we have to agree all the time ...by the way, we're always joking to each other ...and PM 'd a lot too...
See? This a real mature behavior... :rolleyes:

PS: Thanks uncertain, for being my cool example... :cool:

[Ana4Stapp]

And what leads me to think that? Let's take Ana4Stapp for example, again. She's more of a Stapp fan than an AB fan, although she likes both. Still, you don't see her causing arguments or people complaining over the same blah blah blah posts. Why? Coz her posts are respectful and she doesn't try and get in everybody else's nerves on purpose. But then... you may say she's an exception. Is she? Let's see... (forgive me for pointing fingers, but they're all for good people) Frankie, Julie, Robyn, titan9 (forgot your name, sorry!) and lot of other people that unfortunately aren't as active as they used to be.

I know some of them left the board think people got too harsh on Stapp, but still I don't recall of them ever causing trouble. They were always ethic and respectful.


:thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou:

:wiggle: :wiggle:

:cloud9: :cloud9:

Humm, Do you know something? You're my HERO!!!!!! ;)

Beijos, beijos, beijos:wub:

[TeriB19]

I'll defend the heck out of Scott Stapp the musician, but the person? I just can't do that.

I get my opinion of Stapp's music questioned here, but I don't mind it at all. It doesn't make me feel un-welcomed here. Because, again, it's just my opinion.

I would like to address this, Michael (may I call you Michael? ;) ). I don't think the issue here is Stapp's ability as a musician. I think many, if not all of us agree, musically as well as lyrically, he's fantastic. Ok, maybe his voice was stronger in the MOP/HC days, but his ability as a songwriter cannot be questioned.

When you defend your position on how you feel about Scott, his music, his persona, whatever, you do so in a respectful manner. There is a way to voice your opinion, and there is a way to make people feel belittled. Being condescending is not the way to go about it. If that is done, you can bet your ass you're going to be jumped on (not you personally, just in general).

[titan9]

Oh, yeah, I always try to do it in a respectful manner. I know that if I belittle anyone, rest assured, I'll get ripped apart. It's a fact of life, lol. You're right, though, most here don't question him as a musician, although some do. Those that do.....they know who they are.:laugh:

And, yeah, you can call me Michael or Mike or Titan or whatever you prefer. It's all good.:D

[creedlvr]

I haven't been here in a while and this thread is just too long for me to read (especially right now while I'm so tired), so I apologize if this info has already been talked about ... but when and to whom did Scott make the statement that was posted at the start of this thread? I'm just surprised because he never usually made negative comments about anyone ... at least not that I ever heard anyway.

[Dogstar]

I think the quote was in Blender magazine. Didn't Scott and Durst have a fairly public feud going on for a little bit? It may have been in reference to that.

[tremonti4life04]

that quote was in Stuff magazine, it was an issue with Pink on the cover. Stuff magazine is an alternate side to Maxim Magazine. It was an interview with stapp, i remember reading it more than 3 times at least, the journalist asked stapp a question about their feud, and scott replied by calling durst a cock.

[Bridge of Clay]

:thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou:

:wiggle: :wiggle:

:cloud9: :cloud9:

Humm, Do you know something? You're my HERO!!!!!! ;)

Beijos, beijos, beijos:wub:
right back at you! ;)

[Bridge of Clay]

And the way it's going, another thread to be closed in the near future.

Ann, let me address this to you one more time.

I don't care if you disagree with me. In fact, I encourage you and anybody else to disagree. It's healthy. I have no problems in changing my mind when people points issues that I haven't seen/ realized yet, as long as I think they're worthy.

The thing is... either I'm misreading your posts or you're misreading ours. Due the fact this is internet, we don't know your tone or the way you talk and act in real life. I hope in all honesty your intentions are pure and you don't want to cause trouble at all. In fact, I believe if you wanted to do so, you'd have done it by cussing and having major arguments with other members.

On the other hand, although you think you're being respectful, the way you talk to people and post here leads us to believe you're mocking us. Thereby, people won't feel respected. Now if it was one people complaining it would be understandable, but it seems you're against the rest of the board.

If I'm right and people are misreading you, could you please, for the sake of peace in here, consider elaborating your posts putting yourself on our position, in a manner that's our concept with respect?

I apologize if you think we're picking you as "the one to dislike" but we obviously have a climate issue and it needs to be cleared for our own good, ours and yours.

[creedlvr]

Thanks Dogstar and Tremonti4life04 for answering my question. I am aware that Scott and Fred had a pretty public feud ... but I guess I was under the impression that it was more Fred's "issue" than Scott's.

I remember the interview Scott gave at Woodstock where he was asked what he thought about Limp Bisquit's lyrics and what some people consider to be negative and a bad influence and Scott was not nasty at all. I believe it was at the same time that Durst was on stage making fun of Stapp in front of everyone. I think that's what started the whole "fight." Anyway, I just always heard Scott taking the high road when it came to that. I guess I must have missed this article. Anyway, thanks again for the info.

[RMadd]

you have the distance factor working on your favor :(
ah, but women seem to be quite attracted to the latin-lover mystique lol

[uncertaindrumer]

With all thise love going around I am getting a little creeped out...

lol

[Ann Allusion]

... Due the fact this is internet, we don't know your tone or the way you talk and act in real life. I hope in all honesty your intentions are pure and you don't want to cause trouble at all. In fact, I believe if you wanted to do so, you'd have done it by cussing and having major arguments with other members.

There ya go...you've hit the nail on the head, Marcos. As i have said before, if i wanted to be disrespectful, many more people would have known it by now.

i also said in a post about a page back...invalidation appears to be what makes someone feel disrespected...but by the same token...the words and phrases that make up those "invalidations" are sometimes the very words and phrases many of us use daily to show sympathy, give instruction, or express ourselves. Some people may find a tone of disrespect in my words...while others do not attempt to read between the lines and may just take them for what they are...simply a reply.

[Ana4Stapp]

With all thise love going around I am getting a little creeped out...

lol

Is there someone jealous here? lol :rolleyes:

[uncertaindrumer]

Is there someone jealous here? lol :rolleyes:

What? *is confused*

[Bridge of Clay]

what's that song children sing like?

Stephen, Ana... kissing behind the tree! LMAO! j/k


ah, but women seem to be quite attracted to the latin-lover mystique lol

yeah, that's a plus!!! but then I need to work on my tan again! lol

[tremonti4life04]

I had a lover once, but my dog popped her.

[Bridge of Clay]

yeah, that's the way to go man... As a wise man once sang:

"Let your heart beat idle, so it can never break" :D

[uncertaindrumer]

what's that song children sing like?

Stephen, Ana... kissing behind the tree! LMAO! j/k



yeah, that's a plus!!! but then I need to work on my tan again! lol

...

Must say I wasn't expecting that.... although I now understand her comment as well, and no, I most certainly am not jealous... lol

[Bridge of Clay]

why? do you have something against Ana? huh huh huh? :D

lol, j/k! don't worry man, it's all about the fun! ;)

[titan9]

yeah, that's the way to go man... As a wise man once sang:

"Let your heart beat idle, so it can never break" :D

Would that wise man happen to be Myles Kennedy? :D

[RMadd]

yes :D

[Ana4Stapp]

why? do you have something against Ana? huh huh huh? :D

lol, j/k! don't worry man, it's all about the fun! ;)

See ? Life is full of surprises!!!!lol :rolleyes: