Creed's Windup Contract

[Mr. Prophet Man]

OK so this project is over pretty much. But what sucks is their contract.. I'm pretty sure Creed couldve made more records , they only did 3 for crying out loud.

[Echelon122]

I heard that their record deal was for 3, and WU had the option to renew and they did...for 4 more.

I'm guessing that they probably renegotiated them to have their projects count towards the "creed" total.

[Trees of Wisdom]

I heard that their record deal was for 3, and WU had the option to renew and they did...for 4 more.

I'm guessing that they probably renegotiated them to have their projects count towards the "creed" total.

Creed has a 7-record deal with Wind-up.

[Delirium]

I dont know about everyone else but i think Creed shouldve quit while they were ahead.... i mean, what the hell was that weathered crap? the first 2 tracks were good, the rest were fluffied up.

[Echelon122]

Creed has a 7-record deal with Wind-up.
3 then renew for 4 = 7 ;)

[Higher_Desire]

OK, so check my math:
3 record deal: My Own Prison, Human Clay, Weathered
4 record renewal - Solo projects counting: AlterBridge, Stapp, Creed Compilation

What am I missing? I only count 3 counting towards the 4. What is the other one?


H-D :jam:

[aussiecreeder]

OK, so check my math:
3 record deal: My Own Prison, Human Clay, Weathered
4 record renewal - Solo projects counting: AlterBridge, Stapp, Creed Compilation

What am I missing? I only count 3 counting towards the 4. What is the other one?


H-D :jam:

Alter Bridge's or Stapp's next album? just as long as there is not another greatest hits package on top of the compilation album. it better not become the farce that has become of the constant AIC greatest hits releases (no offence dogstar! :) ) they have almost as many greatest hits albums as studio albums.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

I dont know about everyone else but i think Creed shouldve quit while they were ahead.... i mean, what the hell was that weathered crap? the first 2 tracks were good, the rest were fluffied up. I hate to disagree with you my friend, but that Weathered crap as you call it , got more airplay than any of their previous cd's. I liked it.

[aussiecreeder]

I hate to disagree with you my friend, but that Weathered crap as you call it , got more airplay than any of their previous cd's. I liked it.

airplay and sales don't really matter but i'm with you i really like weathered!

[Mr. Prophet Man]

airplay and sales don't really matter but i'm with you i really like weathered!weathered was ok, i wish they made albums that had the same formula as MOP as in darker lyrics and heavier riffs

[aussiecreeder]

weathered was ok, i wish they made albums that had the same formula as MOP as in darker lyrics and heavier riffs

why do you want the same formula? would that no bore you?

[Echelon122]

There were somethings about Weathered that I liked compared to the other albums...some I didn't. I don't think the "I love/I hate Weathered" "discussion" will ever die. :lol


Maybe the mystery #7 will be the DVD...wouldn't that be nice.

[velocityidp]

I hate to disagree with you my friend, but that Weathered crap as you call it , got more airplay than any of their previous cd's. I liked it.

Who cares if it got more airplay? I thought it was the first nail in Creed's coffin... commercialized, pop-ized, and lyrically flat/repetitive. Musically it was not-too-bad, though.

Definately their worst offering.

[Bridge of Clay]

Colin: you're missing the DVD.

It was supposed to happen, but then 4 "fans" decided to sue their band...

[ibleedpurple]

I'm still not holding my breath for the compilation CD, although that would be a great way to delay the news of the breakup and milk some more money out of the fans.

[Dogstar]

It might take a while, but they'll likely put out something to fulfill the contractual obligations.

[Trees of Wisdom]

I'm still not holding my breath for the compilation CD, although that would be a great way to delay the news of the breakup and milk some more money out of the fans.

Naw, the Creed compilation will be released, at least that's what we've been told. :rolleyes:

[Echelon122]

I think the compilation along with an announcment of the end of Creed would shoot sales of it through the freakin ROOF.

The DVD will never see the light of day, and that sucks. The shows recorded for it were some of the best.

[Trees of Wisdom]

I think the compilation along with an announcment of the end of Creed would shoot sales of it through the freakin ROOF.

The DVD will never see the light of day, and that sucks. The shows recorded for it were some of the best.

There could be a chance that the DVD will be released so Creed finishes their Wind-up contract.

[benkenobi]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is an entirely pointless erray of speculation. Be patient and the music will take care of itself!!!

[Echelon122]

There could be a chance that the DVD will be released so Creed finishes their Wind-up contract.


Then tell the guy sitting on his ass about it to get with it. :mad1: There weren't that many shows to go through.

At this rate, put them ALL on there (Detroit, Grand Rapids, Madison), some other stuff, the videos, and like the VH1 "Opening night live" thing (it was kinda cool behind the scenes)...put it at a reasonable price.

and give those f-ked over by CreedINK the thing for Free....that'd certainly satiate my need for legal remedy.

[Trees of Wisdom]

Then tell the guy sitting on his ass about it to get with it. :mad1: There weren't that many shows to go through.

At this rate, put them ALL on there (Detroit, Grand Rapids, Madison), some other stuff, the videos, and like the VH1 "Opening night live" thing (it was kinda cool behind the scenes)...put it at a reasonable price.

and give those f-ked over by CreedINK the thing for Free....that'd certainly satiate my need for legal remedy.

That'd be one amazing DVD.

[johellion]

Who cares if it got more airplay? I thought it was the first nail in Creed's coffin... commercialized, pop-ized, and lyrically flat/repetitive. Musically it was not-too-bad, though.

Definately their worst offering.


Yup... I have to say that WEATHERED was not there best stuff....it was thrown together....the bass sucked...no Brian...and the chemistry was not there...It got more airplay because it was a big band...the first 2 albums proved themselves...and there fore it sold....but lets face it...when Brian left...it was not the same...The first 2 albums ...KICKED ass....sorry..but true...The first 2 were rock and roll....ballads are ok...but you don't need that many....

[Shadow]

Yup... I have to say that WEATHERED was not there best stuff....it was thrown together....
Both Scott and Mark had said it was their best album.

the bass sucked...no Brian...
Mark was the one who recorded all the bass tracks.

I thought Brett did a great job on tour with them.

[Trees of Wisdom]

Both Scott and Mark had said it was their best album.


Mark was the one who recorded all the bass tracks.

I thought Brett did a great job on tour with them.

Brett did a pretty good job. That's why I knew Creed were going to break up since he wasn't going to be their permanent bassist.

[Shadow]

Brett did a pretty good job. That's why I knew Creed were going to break up since he wasn't going to be their permanent bassist.
I don't think that has anything to do with it. They never felt the need, or wanted to, have an official fourth member of the band.

Bon Jovi's bassist was asked to leave the band years ago and was never replaced. They continue on as a foursome.

[Bridge of Clay]

Human Clay is my fav album because it's the one that got me into Creed, but I definately love Weathered.

[Shadow]

I love all of the albums equally. I've been listening to Creed since MOP days. I have favorites off each album. I actually love all of their songs with the expection of maybe 1 or 2 of them.

[creedsister]

Yup... I have to say that WEATHERED was not there best stuff....it was thrown together....the bass sucked...no Brian...and the chemistry was not there...It got more airplay because it was a big band...the first 2 albums proved themselves...and there fore it sold....but lets face it...when Brian left...it was not the same...The first 2 albums ...KICKED ass....sorry..but true...The first 2 were rock and roll....ballads are ok...but you don't need that many....
Everybodys Got their Fave Of Course But Saying That Weathered Was Thrown Together Is Fricking Childish, That Album Was In Perfect Balance s wa A Diverse Fricking Master Peace Even if They Were Short Of A Bass Player I mean Come On,

[Echelon122]

Human Clay is my fav album because it's the one that got me into Creed, but I definately love Weathered.
Same here...

I loved Weathered, cause for me, it appealed more broadly to me...I saw things in the music that were not just "spiritual"...I could relate them more to my friends and other things like that.

I discovered Creed when I was a Youth Director :lol:

and I actually LOVE the bass on Weathered. For a first timer, I thought Mark did a good job, and I actually think the bass part more complimented the rest of the song, and didn't just run parallel to the guitar part. Yeah it was rough, and you could tell someone was playing the Bass that wasn't used to it.

Brett did an AWESOME Job on the tour :thud He didn't try to take Brian's spot, he just came in, put part of himself into the parts and kicked some ass doing so. I wish they would have made him permanant back in 2000...but I'm glad he's happy doing his thing producing bands and working on the album side. I'd love to see him on stage again though...holy hanna he's got some great talent to share. Each of the guys at various points mentioned bringin him on as the permanant man, but I think a LOT of record company politics come into play...as well as maybe he wanted more freedom in their off time *Shrug* I'm sad it didnt' work out, but SO GLAD and greatful he was with them.


I wonder if part of the "chemestry" missing was the way the album was written?

But when they recorded HC, they'd been playing most of those songs before hand in concert...so that comfort level would translate to the studio too I would think.

I have favorites off each album. I actually love all of their songs with the expection of maybe 1 or 2 of them.

Same here. It depends on my mood if I skip songs, but there's maybe 1-3 I don't really care for at all.

Some people just don't like Weathered, and that's fine...but many do. Each song, each album means something different to each person. Someone may LOVE "Beautiful", me, I skip it cause I don't like it. Me, I LOVE "Hide"...I know others that don't like it. Music means different things to different people.
But it's all cool.

[Higher_Desire]

I just don't get it. :dunno: Why would Creed sign a new deal (if they indeed did) under the name of Creed if Creed wasn't going to be putting out more albums? If there are plans for more than one AlterBridge album, wouldn't Wind-Up make AlterBridge sign a contract? If AlterBridge is not under contract, as a seperate band, legal matters could severely screw things up and (legally speaking) they would not be an offically recognized band. A contract is needed to do that.


H-D :hammer:

[Bridge of Clay]

It was signed before the split up.

[Higher_Desire]

But wouldn't a breakup force the contract to be null and void? Therefore making AB have to have another contract?


H-D :hammer:

[Echelon122]

It was not Creed's option to renew...it was Wind-Ups.

[Higher_Desire]

But they can't force the band to sign a contract. The band has to accept the offer and sign. A contract is an agreement. Not a one-sided way of forcing someone to stay under your control.


H-D :hammer:

[Echelon122]

Also, I'd be willing to bet, that rather than breach any existing contract, they re-negotiated with these projects to have them count towards the "Creed" total. But I also would bet there's a separate "Alter Bridge" contract, as well as a "Solo Stapp" one too....but they might be tied into the Creed one?

I'm just guessing...they might not have...who knows?!

No wonder Record companies don't usually make record deals available.

[Echelon122]

But they can't force the band to sign a contract. The band has to accept the offer and sign. A contract is an agreement. Not a one-sided way of forcing someone to stay under your control.


H-D :hammer:


However, if you have it in you contract that it's one sides option to renew....then they CAN force you to stay under that contract.

one reason many new bands will eventually SUE their lables to get OUT of their contracts.

WU's not dumb enough to let Creed get away from them.

[Higher_Desire]

WU's not dumb enough to let Creed get away from them.
Yet they're dumb enough to let them not stay together and do different stuff. That doesn't make much sense either. I know what you're getting is that ultimately they wouldn't want any of the guys sign under a different label for any reason, but by letting them be Alterbridge and Stapp, they are letting Creed go.


H-D :hammer:

[Trees of Wisdom]

Yet they're dumb enough to let them not stay together and do different stuff. That doesn't make much sense either. I know what you're getting is that ultimately they wouldn't want any of the guys sign under a different label for any reason, but by letting them be Alterbridge and Stapp, they are letting Creed go.


H-D :hammer:

They will make more money, though. Alter Bridge will do very well, assuming they are marketed well. Same goes for Scott Stapp.

[Higher_Desire]

They will make more money, though. Alter Bridge will do very well, assuming they are marketed well. Same goes for Scott Stapp.
Personally speaking, people hate Creed because they hate Scott Stapp. People who say they hate Creed may be able to deal with AB, and like them, however, only Creed fans would buy Stapp's album. Though that is a great number of people, ultimately, I don't think Stapp will be able to make it without the rest of the guys.


H-D :hammer:

[Trees of Wisdom]

Personally speaking, people hate Creed because they hate Scott Stapp. People who say they hate Creed may be able to deal with AB, and like them, however, only Creed fans would buy Stapp's album. Though that is a great number of people, ultimately, I don't think Stapp will be able to make it without the rest of the guys.


H-D :hammer:

Yeah me too. But there are always the "scottluvers" that for sure will buy his album.

[Echelon122]

Yet they're dumb enough to let them not stay together and do different stuff. That doesn't make much sense either. I know what you're getting is that ultimately they wouldn't want any of the guys sign under a different label for any reason, but by letting them be Alterbridge and Stapp, they are letting Creed go.


H-D :hammer:


But they'll still get their $$ from the Creed name and having control of those songs and albums. They COULD put a "greatest hits CD" out and the guys probably couldn't stop that if they wanted to.

By letting them do their various project and keeping them tied to the "Creed deal"...again, I'm sure there are separte contracts for AB and Stapp...they benifit more, and don't have to worry about them jumping lables. Stapp and AB could go to ANY Lable and get some success...but they're not competing that much on WU with other bands for support and backing.


I think a LOT of the inital sales of both albums will be Creed fans eager to see what gets put out there. Past that, I think it'll be the content of the albums that shows sales...I don't think "name" will have all that much to do with it...yeah it'll factor in, but I don't see it being a factor that tips scales like I did a few months ago.


Though that is a great number of people, ultimately, I don't think Stapp will be able to make it without the rest of the guys.

I'm inclined to agree with that.

[Trees of Wisdom]

Creed was declining. Weathered wasn't good and I think Creed's next album wouldn't have sold a lot. Good move on Wind-up's part.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

Creed was declining. Weathered wasn't good and I think Creed's next album wouldn't have sold a lot. Good move on Wind-up's part.
CREED WAS DECLINING. I don't know about you, but from every concert I attended (5) on the Weathered Tour they were all sold out. Not to mention all the awards Creed won from Weathered . I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[Echelon122]

CREED WAS DECLINING. I don't know about you, but from every concert I attended (5) on the Weathered Tour they were all sold out. Not to mention all the awards Creed won from Weathered . I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.


What concerts did you go to? I was at 8 that tour and the ONLY ones sold out that I was at were Milwaukee and St. Paul on the first leg (that whole leg sold out)...and then Chicago and Philly in December of 2002. Alpine Valley might have been, but with a GA lawn, you can't really tell...

I know for a fact Moline in August was not a sell out...the arena was half empty.

But I think overall they did well from the tour...weren't they like #8 or something for touring in 2002? But the attendce dropped off over the tour.

I agree with you on the awards.

[aussiecreeder]

I know some here don't like weathered but commercially they were not going backwards! Weathered was not as big as Human Clay but it sold more than My Own Prison did worldwide. It had a string of singles and touring wise they did preddy well bringing in the numbers.

About Creed's contract if Alter Bridge and Stapp count to the deal then it is a smart move on Wind-Up's part as these two acts are basically guarenteed provided the songs are there to make a lot of dough. I'm rooting for them both, I really hope both albums sell like hotcakes! :D

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

What concerts did you go to? I was at 8 that tour and the ONLY ones sold out that I was at were Milwaukee and St. Paul on the first leg (that whole leg sold out)...and then Chicago and Philly in December of 2002. Alpine Valley might have been, but with a GA lawn, you can't really tell...

I know for a fact Moline in August was not a sell out...the arena was half empty.

But I think overall they did well from the tour...weren't they like #8 or something for touring in 2002? But the attendce dropped off over the tour.

I agree with you on the awards. I saw them on the 2nd show of the Weathered Tour in Birmingham, Alabama, then in Nashville, Evansville Indiana, Little Rock Arkansas ( where we met them) and in Philly for what may have been their last show. I've gone to more concerts than just about anything, and at a Creed show it was somewhat Spiritual, Scott was an awesome front man( and I don't want to hear any whinners about chicago) and he could lead the crowd almost as if he were performing magic. Their was truly a chemistry between Scott, Flip, Mark, and Hestla fit in nicely too.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

[QUOTE=handmedown]I know some here don't like weathered but commercially they were not going backwards! Weathered was not as big as Human Clay but it sold more than My Own Prison did worldwide. It had a string of singles and touring wise they did preddy well bringing in the numbers.

Weathered still had a few hits that could have been released that would have helped it to pass Human Clay.

[Echelon122]

I've gone to more concerts than just about anything, and at a Creed show it was somewhat Spiritual, Scott was an awesome front man( and I don't want to hear any whinners about chicago) and he could lead the crowd almost as if he were performing magic. Their was truly a chemistry between Scott, Flip, Mark, and Hestla fit in nicely too.

I don't think you'll find many people to dispute that Stapp was a hell of a front man. Hell, I've never disputed that. I've seen a lot of other bands and none come close to his showmanship.


Chicago...definatly a changing point for me. My respect level for Mark, Flip and Brett skyrocketed as my repect level for Stapp plummited. But it was one of those "had to be there" things I suppose.

But yes Philly...hands down the BEST show of the tour...they got it together one last time to go out on a GREAT note.

They did have a chemestry....sadly, the forumla's been messed with a bit much and maybe after a while they'll find it again.

[aussiecreeder]

[QUOTE=handmedown]I know some here don't like weathered but commercially they were not going backwards! Weathered was not as big as Human Clay but it sold more than My Own Prison did worldwide. It had a string of singles and touring wise they did preddy well bringing in the numbers.

Weathered still had a few hits that could have been released that would have helped it to pass Human Clay.

perhaps they could have released hide as a single instead of bullets? anyhow it went 6 times platnium in the U.S alone (and sold bigtime in India and Indonesia) so how can anyone seriously state they were in decline commercially, what utter nonsense.

stapp is a great frontman and demands attention, the only other frontman who fits that description is another scott....scott weiland.

[Trees of Wisdom]

perhaps they could have released hide as a single instead of bullets? anyhow it went 6 times platnium in the U.S alone (and sold bigtime in India and Indonesia) so how can anyone seriously state they were in decline commercially, what utter nonsense.

stapp is a great frontman and demands attention, the only other frontman who fits that description is another scott....scott weiland.

They were slowly doing worse. It was better to quit before it's too late.

[Mr. Prophet Man]

Man, I thought Creed was gonna be the "Bon Jovi" for the new millennium, but i was wrong. THey are pulling a "Pantera" on the fans but the only thing is they dont go around attackin eachother verbally.

[aussiecreeder]

They were slowly doing worse. It was better to quit before it's too late.

slowly doing worse? remember we are talking commercial success here purely and simply! prove to me using the stats such as the RIAA that there was a downward direction with albums and touring sales. look at the U.S, MOP sold 6 million or so, HC 11 million so far and Weathered I think has sold about 7 million. even if weathered sold less than mop in the us that wouldn't mean anything because there is still no downward slide from one album to the next and worldwide weathered destroyed mop's sales.

[Unforgiven Fan]

Creed has been in decline, I think, since Higher became a pop hit...then when Weathered was released, the old hard rock fan base started to erod away and after awhile the pop scene was done with them. Creed was in a big problem that they may never be able to get out of because of the decline in their hard rock credibilty and the pop scene's 15 minutes of fame attitude.

Also Scott Stapp's ego and the Brian removal contributed to the decline.

Now if they have 4 more albums to do then that most likey would be Creed itself and not Alterbridge and Stapp, which would be on seperate contracts because they are seperate entities.
.
This means that Creed will have to make new music even if they release a compliation and DVD unless they void the contract...

That is my :2cents: