What is your belief?

[TeriB19]

For all who care:
I believe there is a loving God. I believe if we are all good to each other, do good in the world and in our own lives, there will be a place for us in heaven. If we hate, spread hatred and are rotten people overall, we won't have a place in heaven. I do not feel that I need to go to church every Sunday, donate 20% of my income to the church or confess everytime I miss mass. I am a charitable person, walk in fund-raising walkathons, try to donate to worthy causes, I have a soft spot in my heart for the American Heart Assn. and the American Cancer Society. I try to be a good person.

[Dogstar]

I believe that, too. TeriB. I think that God is merciful and is present in so many things and people. I see God in a beautiful blue sky, a perfect purple mum, the glorious ocean. I believe in trying to be the best person I can be and trying to bring a little sunshine into all the lives of the people I know.
I don't believe in having to worhip God within the four walls of a building. I prefer the direct route.
I do believe there is a heaven for those souls who want good to win out over evil. And I do believe the spirit of loves ones lives on to help us and guide us when we need it.

[hayley]

i have never had a relationship with God, but i do believe that he is there, i just can't reach him...i have tried but i can't.
creed is my belief.;)

[Altair]

"Hello, is anybody out there? Just nod if you can hear me. Is anyone home?"

I love those lyrics. I like to think that God is home and we can all relate to that one special person inside, the center of it all, shining through everyone's eyes, all at once.

"United we stand, divided we fall."

[allison]

Originally posted by addicted2stapp
i have never had a relationship with God, but i do believe that he is there, i just can't reach him...i have tried but i can't.
creed is my belief.;)

A2S-He never leaves you. Whenever, if ever, you decide you want to try again, He will be there ready and willing, holding nothing against you. :)

[allison]

A huge part of who I think God is, is that He forgives. You can be a horrible, evil person and do awful things, but as long as you sincerely ask for forgivness and make a real effort to change, He will forgive you, no matter what.

This is a really big deal if you, like me, and I think like most people, have done things that you are ashamed of and that you feel horrible about. It is never too late, you can always forgive yourself b/c God forgives you.

I am not a religious fanatic, just a Christian, and this belief is the basis of Christianity.

[TeriB19]

I am sure that we have all done things that we aren't particularly proud of, and you are right, I believe that despite the things you have or have not done, if you are truly sorry, and make the effort to do better, God is a forgiving one.

[Altair]

Originally posted by allison
A huge part of who I think God is, is that He forgives.  I am not a religious fanatic, just a Christian, and this belief is the basis of Christianity.

Right on!

It really points to the fact that even though we cannot undo what has been done, we can still realize the magic of the moment, and that each and every moment is a chance, an opportunity for us to start once again, fresh with a new vision, a new purpose, and an understanding that your heart and mind, at the moment, is really what counts.

[Siana]

Originally posted by Dogstar
I believe that, too. TeriB. I think that God is merciful and is present in so many things and people. I see God in a beautiful blue sky, a perfect purple mum, the glorious ocean. I believe in trying to be the best person I can be and trying to bring a little sunshine into all the lives of the people I know.  
I don't believe in having to worhip God within the four walls of a building. I prefer the direct route.  
I do believe there is a heaven for those souls who want good to win out over evil. And I do believe the spirit of loves ones lives on to help us and guide us when we need it.

well said.i agree

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Dogstar
I believe that, too. TeriB. I think that God is merciful and is present in so many things and people. I see God in a beautiful blue sky, a perfect purple mum, the glorious ocean.  
I see God in my two children (mostly when they are asleep or behaving) but he definitely is there.

[Lady Valkyrie]

I believe that there is an Almighty God. I believe that there is a Holy Spirit of God. I believe that there is a satan. I believe that there is a Heaven. Heaven is for those who are God's children and those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. I believe that there is a Hell. I believe God doesn't send anybody to hell, but we send ourselves there by rejecting God and His son Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, born of a virgin, died on a cross for the sins of the world, rose from the dead on the third day, commanded us to spread the Good News of the Gospel, promised to come back for his followers one day in Father God's time. I believe that the Holy Bible is the infallible word of God and that noone should add or take away from it. I believe what I believe and I live what I believe.

[allison]

I do not believe that you have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, or even believe in him, to go to heaven. (Think about people who are never even exposed to Christianity for instance!) I do not believe in hell b/c I know that my God is a merciful God, and a forgiving God who is full of mercy would not condemn His children, who He loves more than we can even imagine loving someone, to agony for eternity. I completely reject the whole idea of hellfire and damnation, which is certainly an invention of the human mind. To me, that's ridiculous.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Allison do you not believe in the Bible? I noticed that in a previous reply you call yourself a Christian. To be a cHRISTian you must believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. To be a Christian you must be a follower of Jesus Christ. That is the fundemental core belief in Christianity... no matter what denomination. If you do not believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior then I feel that you should not call yourself a Christian... you are misrepresenting what Christianity stands for and believes. From what you have stated allison, I feel that you are a spiritual person... but because you deny Jesus I would not consider you a Christian. No matter what denomination within Christianity you go to, the core belief of them all is that Jesus is the son of God, died on the cross for the atonement of the sins of the whole world, and that he rose from the dead on the third day and ascended into heaven and he promised to come back. I am not trying to talk down to you, or belittle your beliefs... so please don't misunderstand me. I just feel you are misinformed as to the meaning behind what a Christian is and believes in.

[allison]

You need to re-read my post, carefully. I NEVER stated that I do not believe in Christ, or that he is not MY savior. I DO and he IS. I simply stated that I do not think that people that do not believe these things go to hell. Simple as that.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Forgive me for not understanding you fully. However, by what you just said then you must not believe what Jesus Christ said , John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." As I asked before do you not believe all of what the Holy Bible teaches? I'm Just curious...

[TeriB19]

I have to agree with allison on this point. What about the jungle people in Africa? I am sure many of them have never been exposed to Christ or Christianity, but does that mean they will automatically go to hell? They never have a chance to accept Jesus as their savior for the simple fact that there is no one there to expose him to them. Does that make sense? I think it's unfair to say that unless you accept Him, you will not go to heaven.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

Romans 1

18) But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. 19) For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20) From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21) Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22) Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23) And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24) So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25) Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26) That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27) And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
28) When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29) Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30) They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31) They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. 32) They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.

[allison]

Again, I do not believe that for a human being to be admitted to heaven, they must accept Christianity as their religion and belief system. Since you do, I'd like to know how you can believe that our God, as loving and merciful as He is, would condemn the following 2 examples of people to hell:

Example 1: a child who does not yet have the capacity to know what she believes

Example 2: a person living in Afghanistan, or Japan, or anywhere else where Christianly is not the dominant religion, who has never even had the opportunity to learn about Jesus

(Note: those are not the only 2 types of non-Chrsitians that I think would still go to Heaven)

As for your question of whether I believe "all that the Holy Bible teaches", yes, of course, although I think that just as different people hold differing opinions, people interpret the Bible in different ways. Some take it literally, word for word, others try to understand it in the context in which it was written, which, alot of times, it not a literal interpretation. You choose to take it literally, I do not believe that it should be taken that way. You have your opinion of the "right" way to take it, and I have mine. And that's OKAY.

[Lady Valkyrie]

First of all I do not take the Holy Bible ALL literally or All Symbolically. This is where the study of the scriptures, customs of that time and place come in handy. You have to educate yourself of the ways of those in Biblical times, use some common sense to determine what is meant to be symbolic and what is meant to be taken literally. The scripture I just gave above... how could you take that symbolically? Please explain to me what exactly you think that the scripture gave above, especially the part that is in bold, means... I'm assuming that you think it's meant to be symbolic... then explain to me how so.

Second, as for the child issue... have you ever heard of such a thing as the age of accountability? Most Christian denominations believe in it. No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation. You can't expect a newborn to know how to read, write and add 2+2 right after birth... for they do not have the mental capacity to do these things. The same goes for the age of accountability. The age of accountability is different for every person... some mature mentally faster than others.

Third about those who live in places where Christianity isn't the dominate religion... refer to the scripture that I gave in my previous reply... especially the part that is in bold.

[allison]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.



You're not adding up here.

So are you now saying that the ones that haven't been reached by missionaries are off the hook?

And WHY would there need to be missionaries if everyone knows God "instinctively"???

[Dogstar]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Allison.

[TeriB19]

No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation.

A newborn baby is a sinner in need of salvation? I'm not getting that. Again, it's all in interpretation of the bible. I don't believe that a child who is not baptized is a sinner in need of salvation. My best friend is Jewish, did not have her baby baptized, but is raising that child to be a good person (not a Christian) and treat others well, help people and generally live a good life. Is that child going to hell?

[allison]

Originally posted by allison
Example 2: a person living in Afghanistan, or Japan, or anywhere else where Christianly is not the dominant religion, who has never even had the opportunity to learn about Jesus  


So you do think that the above person would go to hell??? That they should somehow just "instinctively" know that they need to deny their born religion and everything that they've been taught and somehow just know that they need to believe in some man that THEY have never even heard of? Ridiculous! But, like I said, that's your opinion, we won't ever see eye to eye on this, and that's OKAY.

I think I'm done here. Peace.

[TeriB19]

Yes, me too. I think we should just agree to disagree and be done.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by TeriB19
No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation.  

A newborn baby is a sinner in need of salvation? I'm not getting that. Again, it's all in interpretation of the bible. I don't believe that a child who is not baptized is a sinner in need of salvation. My best friend is Jewish, did not have her baby baptized, but is raising that child to be a good person (not a Christian) and treat others well, help people and generally live a good life. Is that child going to hell?

First of all I don't believe in baptizing babies. Baptism by water doesn't save someone's soul all by itself.

John 3:4) "What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?"
5) Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6) Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven. 8) Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."

A person must be mentally capable of understanding that they are a sinner... in need of a Savior...need to be baptized by water... and born again of the Holy Spirit of God... which means that they must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior... then the Holy Spirit of God transform them into a new creature spiritually speaking. The transformation comes on the inside of the spirit... the baptism by water is just a mere outward symbol of the work on the inside of the spirit.

Second of all The Jewish religion doesn't even acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior. They are still waiting for the Savior to come and save them. They don't even acknowledge the Holy Bible other than the first five books of the Old Testamment called the Torah. Therefore by what the Bible sspeaks of that Jewish mother will go to hell if she doesn't accept Jesus Christ as her personal savior before she dies. Unless she is a Messianic Jew... a Jew who holds to the traditions of their faith but they also believe that Jesus Christ is indeed the Savior and have made Him the Lord and Savior of their lives.

As for the baby... if that baby died at this very moment without becoming mentally capable of understanding the plan of salvation then no that baby would not go to hell.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by allison
<b>So you do think that the above person would go to hell??? &nbsp;That they should somehow just "instinctively" know that they need to deny their born religion and everything that they've been taught and somehow just know that they need to believe in some man that THEY have never even heard of? &nbsp;Ridiculous! &nbsp;But, like I said, that's your opinion, we won't ever see eye to eye on this, and that's OKAY. &nbsp;

I think I'm done here. Peace. </b>

I was born into a family where they were pentacostal and most all spoke in tongues... yet their spirits were so critical, judgemental, mean spirited, greedy, and often malicious. I just instinctively knew that there was more to the God of the Holy Bible than what my family represented. I searched and searched for God in my spiritual journey. I've been to the pentecostals, Methodists, Baptists, Catholosism, I was even once a Wiccan... but not one of these man made religions showed me the God that I instinctively knew in my spirit was out there. I had to experience Him for myself. Through different people who refused to conform to one particular denomination in Christianity God revealed himself to me. In the beginning though, I was born into a long line of pentecostals.

To be born into a man made religion isn't an excuse for not knowing that there is a ONE TRUE GOD out there in heaven.

We may not see eye to eye on this issue... but I have never once meant to belittle anyone or talk down to anyone. This is merely an intelligent debate between intelligent people.

[Dogstar]

Absolutely. No one is here to belittle anyone. It's just apparent that we disagree on a few things, is all. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Tolerance is the key.

[souldancer]

WOA! I already posted about my beliefs and commented to Lady V on the old board. I believe in an everpresent, all powerful God that is the creator, sustainer of all of life - available to anyone that opens their heart and stills their mind. I believe that Jesus' greatest teachings were about forgivenss, love and our direct relationship with God. I am going to lovingly bite my tongue now and leave this thread - but first I would like to ask all those NON-CHRISTIANS to try, like me, to forgive Lady V's judgemental, self-righteous words.

[Dogstar]

Yes, I do forgive those words, as I am trying to practice what I preach by being tolerant of others' opinions even though I respectfully disagree with them.:)

[Altair]

Off on a tangent, I'm going to come out of the closet, so to speak, in the hopes that the other members of this board will not laugh at my beliefs, but actually ponder them to some extent. I'm not a preacher, but I do feel I have something important to share.
So, without further ado, here it is.

I believe that everyone is one person. I in you, you in me; we're one.

To me, it's as real as the air I breath, the skin I feel, the thoughts I think, the computer screen in front of me. It's not a philosophy, nor an idea. It's not a possibility, nor a concept; it's life in every moment and in every way I experience.

Ask yourself this: Who are you living for when it really matters? You believe you have eternal life? If so, is that life yours or someone else's? And, when it comes to the matter of salvation, why do you want to be saved in the first place? Does the idea of hell scare you? Do you want heaven? For whom do you want these things? The answer to that is the one you love. Once you begin to realize the essence of the one inside, take it higher and see that one in everyone else. Magnify and expand yourself so that you may love others as yourself and not live or work for you alone, but for the greater self in all.

Sounds twisted, but to me, it's right here, right now, and it's the truth.

Again, take it for what it is. I don't expect it to make much sense and I'm not trying to push, just share.

[TeriB19]

It's not twisted. It is your belief, it is a very valid belief and you explain yourself very well. Thank you for sharing that and for being descriptive so that we understand. I respect you for that.:)

[Lady Valkyrie]

Again I say that everything that I have said so far have not been meant to belittle or to tear down. I was having an intelligent conversation with someone who cliams to be a fellow Christian... someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. I was trying to understand how a Christian can pick and choose what they like out of the Holy Bible... the very basis of the Christian faith. I was trying to understand the person and sharing what I feel the Bible says about the subject. Not once was I trying to tear anyone down. You people often mistake someone who is outspoken and confident in their beliefs with someone who is pushing their faith or is trying to belittle someone else's beliefs. You guys are so blinded that you can not see that you guys are not being tolerant of me by belittleing me and asking people to forgive my judgemental and intolerant words. I am a Christian. I am also very outspoken. I study the Bible intensely. And I am very confident and proud of my belief in Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible. I will never back down and say that I am wrong for these things. I have done nothing wrong here. You people need to learn to be tolerant of the fact that I am outspoken and confident in my beliefs. It's not like I was pulling things out of my rear like other people on the old board without having a basis for why I believe the way I do. I don't expect for Non-Christians to understand my reasoning. I was conversing with a person that claims to be of the same religion that I believe in. I was in no way shape or form pushing my beliefs, or being judgemental towards anyone. May each and everyone of you have a blessed day.

[Altair]

Cool. I like it when people express themselves. Just let it go.

Life flows. Good, bad, up, down, in and out. Things are what they are and it's all a part of what was, is, and will be. Just go with it, I say, and enjoy the ride, or the float.

[souldancer]

I appreciate your sharing and am open to sincere thoughts/others experiences. A good tangent - not twisted to me.

Here's a verse I love by Black Elk, <i> "The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize that their relationship, their oneess, with the universe and all its powers, and when the realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us." </i>

This may be a bit 'odd' for some, but it feels right to me, especially for this thread. It's by Paramahansa Yogananda,<i> "Our One Father, we are traveling by many true paths unto Thy one abode of Light. Make us feel that the diverse religions are branches of Thine one tree of truth. Bless us, that we may enjoy the intuition-tested, ripe, luscious fruits of self-knowledge, hanging from all the branches of manifold scriptural teachings. In Thine one temple of silence, we are singing unto Thee a chorus of many-voiced religions. Teach us to chant in harmony..." </i>

[Altair]

Originally posted by souldancer
<b>I appreciate your sharing and am open to sincere thoughts/others experiences. &nbsp;A good tangent - not twisted to me.

Here's a verse I love by Black Elk, <i> "The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize that their relationship, their oneess, with the universe and all its powers, and when the realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us." </i>

This may be a bit 'odd' for some, but it feels right to me, especially for this thread. &nbsp;It's by Paramahansa Yogananda,<i> "Our One Father, we are traveling by many true paths unto Thy one abode of Light. Make us feel that the diverse religions are branches of Thine one tree of truth. &nbsp;Bless us, that we may enjoy the intuition-tested, ripe, luscious fruits of self-knowledge, hanging from all the branches of manifold scriptural teachings. &nbsp;In Thine one temple of silence, we are singing unto Thee a chorus of many-voiced religions. &nbsp;Teach us to chant in harmony..." </i> </b>

Most cool, my friend. On the same page, I see we are. Looking forward to Sacramento, I am. Getting the chance to me you, I hope I have. Talking like Yoda, I will now stop.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
I just feel you are misinformed as to the meaning behind what a Christian is and believes in.
Perhaps I am a little sorry for reacting to your scriptural interpretations and judgements. God Bless - go in peace

[souldancer]

Hey Yoda, Looking forward to meeting you too - and will be gentle in my tripping ;)
Another for this Thread..<i>"Christianity does not ask us to live in the shadow of the Cross, but in the fire of its creative action" (Teilhard de Chardin)</i> - great lyrics for Creed!

[Aimee]

Romans 2
1: You, therefore, have no excuse. You who pass judgement on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgement do the same things.
6-11: God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those, who persist in doing good, seeking glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile (Christian). But glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

This sums up what I believe about Heaven & Hell. I got this from the Holy Bible because as a Gentile/Christian, this is my book. I believe, as the Dalai Lama beleives: that there must be different religions because each culture has their own way of defining life. Yes, every human has the ability to know God. Every person in their right mind knows the difference between right and wrong. I only wonder how I can go to Hell because I believe in and talk to God. Not Jesus or Mohummed or Mary or any other sons and daughters of God.
LadyV, you have not answered the question of those who never know Jesus. DO you believe they are going to Hell because the missionaries haven't gotten to them before their death? That does not sound like the loving, forgiving, and just God that I know.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Aimee
Romans 2 &nbsp;
To those, who persist in doing good, seeking glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile (Christian). But glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

Straight out of the bible. Jews will have eternal life if they do good, seek glory, honor and immortality. Jews, who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. You do good, you will be rewarded, you do bad, you will be punished. It's a lesson I learned from my parents.

[Altair]

"God is a concept by which we measure our pain." John Lennon

IMO, this is what it's all about. Your pain. Heaven cannot be known without the experience of hell. There cannot be good unless there is bad to define it. This is the ying and yang, the reality of duality. It's the balance of life. All things have there opposites.

On that day when you take this life in vain; when you truly believe it meaningless, every waking moment and action worthless, then you'll taste darkness and pain like never before and nothing else will matter because nothing will seem to matter. Oh, what absolute bitter, seamingly hopeless fear this can be. And, only with faith, hope, and perseverance, can you climb out of those depths of despair and reenter the light and taste the fruit of heaven, realizing the love that surrounds and permeates every moment, every action, and everyone in your life.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by TeriB19
Straight out of the bible. Jews will have eternal life if they do good, seek glory, honor and immortality. &nbsp;
But Teri, I am Portuguese - I try to do good, but will I go to hell?

[Lady Valkyrie]

If you do the research you will see that the Jesus came for his people... the Jews. Gentiles in the Bible are referring to those who were not born into the Jewish race. Gentile does not equal Christian. Gentile is merely anyone who was not born a Jew. The Bible says in John 3:16 that For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on Him(Jesus) will not perish but have everlasting life. How can a Jew have everlasting life if they don't believe in Jesus... unless they are a Messianic Jew... a Jew who believes Jesus Christ is indeed the Messiah (Savior)

Please read the following VERY CAREFULLY...

Romans 3

God Remains Faithful

1) Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? 2) Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.[1]
3) True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises? 4) Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, "He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court."[2]
5) "But," some say, "our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?" (That is actually the way some people talk.) 6) Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world? 7) "But," some might still argue, "how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?" 8) If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!


All People Are Sinners

9) Well then, are we Jews better than others?[3] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. 10) As the Scriptures say,

"No one is good--
not even one.
11)
No one has real understanding;
no one is seeking God.
12)
All have turned away from God;
all have gone wrong.
No one does good,
not even one."[4]
13)
"Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their speech is filled with lies."
"The poison of a deadly snake drips from their lips."[5]
14)
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[6]
15)
"They are quick to commit murder.
16)
Wherever they go, destruction and misery follow them.
17)
They do not know what true peace is."[7]
18)
"They have no fear of God to restrain them."[8]
19) Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20) For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.


Christ Took Our Punishment

21) But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight--not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago. 22) We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
23) For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. 24) Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25) For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times. 26) And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus.
27) Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. 28) So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.
29) After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30) There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31) Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.



Footnotes


1) 3:2 Greek the oracles of God.
2) 3:4 Ps 51:4.
3) 3:9 Greek Are we better?
4) 3:10-12 Pss 14:1-3; 53:1-3.
5) 3:13 Pss 5:9; 140:3.
6) 3:14 Ps 10:7.
7) 3:15-17 Isa 59:7-8.
8) 3:18 Ps 36:1.

[souldancer]

** looking for a bible passage that has to so with "sense of humor" **

My previous post to Teri was really in jest (should this send me to hell?) So much of, and I will call it my 'issue' with attitudes that your posts reflect, has to do with a literal translation of the Bible! Do you read Aramaic? Are you familiar with the culture of the time in which hundreds of years after Jesus died the book was written? I don't deny Jesus was a great prophet and teacher, and that the Bible can teach us the way out of hell - but, I also believe that words are a matter of interpretation and perspective. I don't believe that words alone contain the meaning. I believe that through contemplation and union, we learn to know God - and this is the difference between "a belief" and "a knowing or experience of the Truth."


<i>" Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind..." (Rom: 12:2)
</i>

[Dogstar]

I agree completely. I mean, look at how many ways literature and song are interpreted. Who's to say one interpretation rules over another? I can't believe that a just God would toss aside someone who has opened his or her heart to him and followed him by trying to be the best person he or she could be. I can't believe that just because one does not subscribe to one way of thinking over another or hasn't been baptized is damned to hell.

[TeriB19]

But Teri, I am Portuguese - I try to do good, but will I go to hell?

Yes, souldancer, I am afraid you will be burning in the fiery depth of hell. God doesn't want any Portuguese up there in the pearly gates. (that was a joke, please, no flaming PM's):)

I am done posting here in the this thread, suffice it to say, I believe God would not turn his back on a good person who does things for others and lives a clean life just because they have not accepted Jesus into their lives. That's my humble opinion an it will not appear in this thread anymore.

[Lady Valkyrie]

The earliest book of the New Testament was written between A.D. 55 - 65, that book was Mark. It wasn't 100's of years after Jesus died. From that time until now much knowledge has been gathered about the language the Bible was originally in. Today's interpretation of the original text of the Holy Bible are more accurate than that of the King James Version. For many use the thought for thought translation, rather than a word for word translation. The New Living Translation, the Bible I use, uses the thought for thought translation. This ensures that the reader will be able to get an accurate translation of the thought that was trying to be conveyed as in the original text, not just exact word for word translation.

It is quite clear when a person reads the Bible what is meant to be symbolic and what is meant to be literal. Out of all the Bible verses that I have quote I would like each one of you to give me your interpretaion of them. Tell me what you think each scripture is trying to convey. I will be more than willing to listen.

[Dogstar]

You seem to have your interpretations already figured out. Why ask us?

[Aimee]

I would like to know your interpretation of Romans 3.
If you want to be taken seriously on this topic, please stop preaching and start teaching. You still have not answered the question about people who never have a chance to learn of Christ and whether or not they are going to Hell.
I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but it seems like you are only posting your questions so that you will have something to argue against.

[Dogstar]

Ditto, Aimee.

[Lady Valkyrie]

What is there to understand about Romans 3? This is the point that I was trying to make when I said that it's common sense as to what is meant to be literal and what is meant to be symbolic in the scriptures. It says what it says. My 9 year old daughter and 11 year old son understand the implications of Romans 3. The translation that I use, The New Living Translation, is in everyday language that is very easy to comprehend.

I don't get when you say I am preaching, instead of teaching. I quote scripture that is easy to understand. Yet there are those who say they are of the Christian faith, yet they do not want to believe what the scriptures say even after I have quoted the scriptures. The answers are there in black, white and red in the Holy Bible... all one has to do is put aside the desires of the flesh, open their hearts and allow the Holy Spirit of God to come in and help them to understand the scripture. (that was preaching and preaching is not always a bad thing)

But I'll humor you.

Romans 3 is broken into 3 parts.

Verses 1-8 is a further explanation from Roman 2:17-29. In Romans 2:17-29 Paul is expalining what the Law (Mosaic) means to the Jews. That some Jews are arrogant when they think that just by being Jewish they are made right in God's sight automatically. They preach and teach the Law to others yet they fail to apply the Law to their own hearts and lives. Paul further explains that just because you have Jewish parents or because you have gone through ther Jewish ceromony of circumcision doesn't make you a true Jew. A true Jew is someone whose heart is right with God. And how is the heart made right with God? Jesus himself stated that a man must be born again.

John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

1) Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2) He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3) In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
4) "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5) Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6) Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7) You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8) The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9) "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10) "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11) I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12) I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14) Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15) that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17) For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19) This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20) Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21) But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Now Romans 3:1-8 is a continuation of this message. Paul further expalins that being a Jew has it's advantages. The Jews were afterall entrusted with the full knowledge of God. And inspite of some Jews being unfaithful God's faithfulness will never cease. The Law does not save one from their sins, but rather it gave the Jews advantage for obtaining salvation... it showed them that they were indeed in need of salvation.

In Romans 3:9-20 Paul expalins that Jews are no better than anyone else because we are all sinners. And he reiterates(sp?) that by obeying the Law itself will not make one right in God's sight... but rather shows that we are not obeying it.

In Romans 3:21-31 Paul expalins how we are all to be made right in God's sight , through the acceptance of Jesus Christas Lord and Savior. He further expalins this is true for not only Jews but for the Gentiles as well. A Gentile is anyone who is not a Jew. We are not saved by how much we obey the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. Does this mean we can forget about the Law? Paul says no. In fact only is it when we have faith in Jesus Christ do we truely obey the Law.

Now if you will re reread all my other posts you will see that here I have merely repeated myself... only I have stated the exact same thing for those who are "preaching sensitive" in a "teaching" format. I have a feeling that when a person says things contrary to how someone else leads their life are they accused of preaching instead of teaching even though they are merely repeating what the actual scripture says. So if anything I have said has grated on your nerves don't blame me... blame God... for the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

Romans 1

18) But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. 19) For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20) From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21) Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22) Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23) And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24) So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25) Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26) That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27) And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
28) When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29) Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30) They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31) They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. 32) They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.

So yes I did in a sense answer the question of will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES! The Bible clearly states... as I have stated in my previous posts... that one MUST accept Christ as Lord and Savior for all are sinners in need of a Savior.

From a biblical standpoint all humans descended from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve. From that moment they knew God... they knew God himself. It wasn't until sin entered the picture at the fall of mankind that mankind started doing their own selfish, sinful thing getting further away from God. However as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse.

[allison]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
So yes I did in a sense answer the question of will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES! The Bible clearly states... as I have stated in my previous posts... that one MUST accept Christ as Lord and Savior for all are sinners in need of a Savior. &nbsp;

From a biblical standpoint all humans descended from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve. From that moment they knew God... they knew God himself. It wasn't until sin entered the picture at the fall of mankind that mankind started doing their own selfish, sinful thing getting further away from God. However as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse.

I was supposed to stay out of this thread but DAMN!

Are these people supposed to be PSYCHIC? Otherwise, how do you expect them to know who the HELL Jesus is??? COME ON! Please don't say through their "instinct", b/c that's the same as saying they should be psychic.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES! &nbsp;
as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse. What kind of crap is that? There are more than just natives in the jungle who may not be that "instinctive". What about profoundly retarded people? I am NOT picking on anyone, so please guys, no flaming me, but you can't say that mankind instinctively knows God. Rational clear thinking people who have been taught about him, yes, but there are many other examples of people who cannot possibly have an "instinct" about God. For crying out loud, I am starting to think I'm going to burn in hell for all the thoughts I have had about these threads.

[Aimee]

LadyV,
Thanks for clarifying Romans 3 for me. I am not a "scholar" of the Bible, nor have I read the entire book. Even the books that I have read and dissected are hazy in some parts. It's a matter of interpretation as far as I'm concerned. So please don't accuse me of being an ignorant or false Christian. I believe that my asking you for clarification is a humble act from me to you. Your sarcastic tone is not one that is taught in Proverbs, and reeks of "pride". If we are to continue this "debate" civily, please stop assuming that just because other Christians don't know as much as you, that we are unenlightened and in need of a spanking.

Now, I have a real problem with your last answer. I know many Christians like you who read the Bible so literally that you believe we are the only ones who are welcome in Heaven. I beleive that Jesus lived and that he was a prophet of God. I do not speak through him, I speak directly to a spirit creator. The mysteries of the world are so vast that no human can even begin to comprehend them. I think it would be a cruel, unkind, and unforgiving God who would turn away a good soul and send them to Hell simply because they'd never heard of the name of Jesus. It's an outlandish idea and when I die, I plan to take up this question with the heavenly counsel.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by Aimee
I think it would be a cruel, unkind, and unforgiving God who would turn away a good soul and send them to Hell simply because they'd never heard of the name of Jesus. &nbsp;It's an outlandish idea and when I die, I plan to take up this question with the heavenly counsel. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Aimee]

The reason I asked for your interpretation...

This is where the study of the scriptures, customs of that time and place come in handy. You have to educate yourself of the ways of those in Biblical times...

edited to say that I agree with you that all humans instincively know God as a creator but not that they would automatically know to worship his son whose name is Jesus.

[Lady Valkyrie]

I'm hearing a lot that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. Then how is it to be taken? I have stated this before, there has to be a balance of literal and symbolic interpretaion. In scriptures that speak of beasts coming to the earth with 10 heads and what not, are we to take this literally? No of course not. The Beast with 10 heads if the antichrist (a charismatic political leader) who convinces 10 kingdom(nations) to sign peace treaties. Now with the scriptures that I have quoted above will someone please stop telling me that I shouldn't take it so literally and start explaining exactly how then they think it should be interpreted and applied to the life of a Christian. Or are you guys (and I am assuming here) wanting to just pull out certain scriptures and say that's ok... but for the scriptures that grate on your nerves and make you feel uncomfortable and squirm, you ignore those or throw those scriptures out. I am a Christian, a follower of Christ. IMO The Holy Bible is the inspired word of God to and for His children. It is to be taken as a whole, not bits and pieces, and put into the hearts of Christians and they are to apply the scriptures to their own life. That to me is what a Christian is and does. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth :)

[allison]

Okay, you ask how the Bible should be taken, if not taken literally. And why shouldn't it be taken literally. Using the example we have been discussing, here is what I think God MEANT when He said that human beings have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God, and that all people must accept the Lord as their savior in order to gain admittance to heaven. I think when it says we must accept and know God, I think it means we must accept and know GOODNESS. In other words, people must reject evil actions and behaviors (for the most part, I guess, b/c we're all sinners), and strive to be good to one another and to do God's (good) will. That is what I believe the true meaning of those scriptures is. Even the jungle people can be expected to do that. But they CANNOT be expected to say, "I accept Jesus Christ, son of the virgin Mary and God Almighty, as my Lord and personal savior."

You must realize that the Bible was written by MEN - fallible men - human men - imperfect men. It was not penned by God or Jesus. I think this is why we must burden ourselves with interpretation, and asking ourselves, using COMMON SENSE, what we believe God meant by what these MEN wrote down.

One thing that I KNOW, as I've said before, is that God is merciful, good, forgiving, loving, and understanding. He is not like an unfit parent, just waiting for the chance to punish their child when they've done wrong. The old testament says, "And God said, 'Vengeance is mine!'". This is NOT the God I know, and if saying that I do not believe what the Bible says - that God would say something like that - makes me a false Christian, I say believe what you want, but you are wrong. I know that MY God is not vengeful. As a matter of fact, he hates vengeance.

[Dogstar]

Nicely put, Allison.

[TeriB19]

Originally posted by allison
You must realize that the Bible was written by MEN - fallible men - human men - imperfect men. It was not penned by God or Jesus. &nbsp;I think this is why we must burden ourselves with interpretation, and asking ourselves, using COMMON SENSE, what we believe God meant by what these MEN wrote down. &nbsp;
That is right. God Himself did not come down from the great heavens with pen in hand and write the whole book himself. Men did write it, and not just one man. How many different interpretations there could possibly be in the different books written by all different men! What makes you think yours is the only correct interpretation, Lady V?

[Aimee]

These are hard questions for anyone to answer. I think that proves that we are all fallible, and that we all have the ability to fail. We are to strive to be like Christ, and take him as the ultimate example of what a person can be. The questions about whether Christ was not truly perfect are only speculations, not documented, and so they have no bearing on me.
Allison, the New testament was created for us after Jesus came to the earth. Jesus was God's way of learning what it's like to live in the flesh. So, even though we should fear what he can bring us, we must know that to be loved we must love, etc. etc.
I take the new testament as my guide to living, and I strive to be like Jesus or like the Dalai Lama, or the Buddah, or any other mortal that I know to carry these traits. And I strive to be an example to others as well in being tolerant and loving and firm without being abusive. LadyV, I admire your tenacity in arguing your point, but I still think you might be blinding yourself to other possiblities, and therefore opening yourself up to hate others instead of loving all.

[LadySilk]

Three men went into the jungle on different occasions and saw a chameleon. "A chameleon is red," said the first man. "No a chameleon is green," said the second man. "Nonsense, a chameleon is brown," said the third man. Those who disagree about the nature of God are like these three men.

-Hindu Teaching Story

[Altair]

Originally posted by LadySilk
<b>Three men went into the jungle on different occasions and saw a chameleon. "A chameleon is red," said the first man. "No a chameleon is green," said the second man. "Nonsense, a chameleon is brown," said the third man. Those who disagree about the nature of God are like these three men.

-Hindu Teaching Story </b>

Yet, they could all agree that the chameleon simply is. And that was the point they were missing. In arguing about the nuances of "God" we are failing to realize that God is fundamentally about life, the living one in all of us. Now, isn't that really the point?

[allison]

I really, really like that. :)

[Dogstar]

Ditto.

[Aimee]

:dancing: to LadySilk & Altair

[souldancer]

Originally posted by Aimee
:dancing: &nbsp;to LadySilk & Altair
Yes - thank you for your breaths of fresh air and perspective!

[OneLastBreath]

i don't know if there is a God or something like that, i hope so but i don't know.

although i beleiven fate.

[Read JDM]

I'm going to weigh in now, not on the present discussion necessarily but rather in answer to the original question posed: What is your belief?

Well, my birthright makes me a Jew. Yet I believe in Jesus. I believe He is the Messiah prophesied by Jewish scriptures, and I believe He is the atonement for a lot of foolish things I've done in my lifetime. I accept the Word of God, that being the Bible, and I believe it is not only His infallible wisdom but also an infallible account of the dawn of time and the history of peoples, as interpreted by none other than the peoples involved. However, I should note that I reject most rituals. I dislike the idea of holidays in general, though they're inescapable and I celebrate them by and large. I try my best not to cling to material things. I believe my connection to God is such that I do not need anything to supplement it (though I often lose sight of this and buy video games and CDs and so on). But in truth, my connection is something that transcends all things, all situations. It can be just me and God in a forest, at the beach, on a lake, walking, sleeping, dancing, breathing, and it will still be real.

I have my beliefs on what happens to people in the hereafter. I will not share them. I don't believe it's my place to tell anyone where they're going, but that's just me and anyone else is welcome to supply their opinions; I am an intensely private and personal person, which is why I choose not to (I'm almost surprised I'm sharing this much). What I will say, however, is that I think a large part of what Jesus meant to accomplish here was to take God's Earthly form in order to purge God Himself of all evil. That's not to say God Himself ever was evil, but rather to make it so that He never knew evil. Because people are Created in God's image, and by that I believe there is God in our hearts -- Jesus cleaned my heart, wiped the sins away and made me new. He's a pretty swell guy like that.

There's a philosophy which states that good cannot be good unless it knows evil, and to me, that makes sense. I think that's why we're here. I think God sparked this thing called existence to see evil and imperfection, and then to purge Himself of ever knowing it. That's where the tree of the knowledge of good and evil comes in. To that end, I believe God needed Satan like Muhammad Ali needed Joe Frazier or George W. Bush needed Usama bin Laden; God needed an enemy to validate Himself, so to speak, but I say that without meaning any disrespect to Him (especially since I know He's reading :)).

I think true Hell is to not know God and to not know and firmly believe in something metaphysical existing beyond existence; I think true Hell is perishing with all material things. But... I will not claim to know any better than any of you how not to make this happen. I am fairly certain that, above all else, God wants us to treat others as we wish to be treated. I'm not perfect, and I'm not even close, but I'm trying to improve everyday. I'm being honest with myself more and more as life goes on. I am pointing out my own errors and fixing them to the best of my mostly meager abilities. I think this counts more than anything else. We mustn't directly concern ourselves with what others believe, but rather work from within and let our personal triumphs and journeys shine through as examples.

I think God wants us to be happy. I think if God Created in order to know and subsequently destroy evil, as I mentioned above, then He also simultaneously Created in order to better know love, and happiness is love. And when we thank Him, and cherish Him, we are the source of that happiness and love. This is why I try to please God, or I at least try to admit to Him when I am doing something that I know is not pleasing Him, because I want to have a conscience and I want to be as unattached to materiality as I can possibly be.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[souldancer]

I'm in a self-study group now reading Chopra's "How To Know God: The Soul's Journey into the Mystery of Mysteries." This paragraph really resonates with me..."After centuries of knowing God through faith, we are now ready to understand divine intelligence directly. In many ways this new knowledge reinforces what spiritual traditions have already promised. God is invisible and yet performs all miracles. He is the source of every implulse of love. Beauty and truth are both children of this God. In the absence of knowing that infinite source of energy and creativity, life's miseries come into being. Getting close to God through a true knowing heals the fear of death, confirms the existence of the soul and gives ultimate meaning to life."
PS - I really don't like the book's title, but am trying to ovlerook that