I am not ashamed to say...

[JulieCitySlicker]

That I believe in God:angel: ;) He is the only one that gets me through the tough times in life:angel: Without him there would be no life! He helps give my life meaning and direction. A person shouldn't be persucuted for what they believe. Everyone has something that they believe in:angel: When people and the things of this world aren't enough to have true happiness God is always there with open arms waiting and He is always there to pick you up and show you His love!:angel: ;)

[Wylde-Tremonti]

u kno what!!!!....I LOVE GOD TOO!!!!! AND HE LOVES ME!!!:D :D :bounce: :bounce: :dancing:

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by TremontiWanaB
u kno what!!!!....I LOVE GOD TOO!!!!! AND HE LOVES ME!!!:D :D :bounce: :bounce: :dancing:
You betcha He Does!:angel: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

[Wylde-Tremonti]

haha!:P :D

[JulieCitySlicker]

:angel: He Loves Us All!:angel: ;) :P

[DangerousDan85]

except me :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by DangerousDan85
except me :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

Yes Dan! He loves even you man!;) :angel: :dancing: :D

[Bridge of Clay]

God has unconditional love. He loves us all!

I wonder if I love God enough, the way I should...

[Wylde-Tremonti]

no one does....but no one can.....cuz we sin...and have all fallen short of Him.....

[HigherGirl]

WELL SAID JULIE!!!!:clap: :angel:

[alive_in_Jesus]

Amen! God's love is soooooo awsome!

TremontiWanaB those r awsome guitar player smiley thingys.

Creed just came on the radio! Rock on!

[Sheila63]

Originally posted by N30°14'?.7 W84°
God has unconditional love. He loves us all!

I wonder if I love God enough, the way I should...


You're so right, Marcos. I sometimes wonder if I love Him enough myself especially with all He's done for us.

[Lechium]

I love God so much. He's man's greatest creation, how can we not love him?

[JenRN]

Originally posted by Lechium
I love God so much. He's man's greatest creation, how can we not love him?
Must you be such a smart ass all the time?:mad:

[TeriB19]

This is the same guy that want's us to lighten up on him. Not happening.

[Lechium]

Hey I said I loved God. I said I'd lighen up in creed and I did. God being a human invention is a common idea, not sure why sharing it is an act of aggession.

[Siana]

Originally posted by JulieLovesCreed
:angel: He Loves Us All!:angel: ;) :P

true :angel:

[Agent D]

Amen to everything everybody said.....

....except Lechium. Sorry, man.:P

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Lechium
Hey I said I loved God. I said I'd lighen up in creed and I did. God being a human invention is a common idea, not sure why sharing it is an act of aggession. God was not made by man:madder: :eye: :argue:

[Lechium]

2JulieLovesCreed: Hamelt, James Bond, Tom Sawyer... they were created by people who wrote books about them. Same goes for God and people who wrote Bible.

Just like in case of fictional charcters listed in 1st sentance they had some real world prototype, however writers changed them around a lot, and added a lot of events that have never happened. Same goes to Chritsian god and the higher power, which undeniably exists, but has very little resemblance with what Bible tells you.

[JulieCitySlicker]

You can think whatever ya want man:confused: :rolleyes: ;)

[Flip]

Originally posted by Lechium
2JulieLovesCreed: Hamelt, James Bond, Tom Sawyer... they were created by people who wrote books about them. Same goes for God and people who wrote Bible.

Just like in case of fictional charcters listed in 1st sentance they had some real world prototype, however writers changed them around a lot, and added a lot of events that have never happened. Same goes to Chritsian god and the higher power, which undeniably exists, but has very little resemblance with what Bible tells you.

So what you saying? he created by a writter?

[Lechium]

I'm trying to say that eventhough there is some higher power out there, Bible has created a fictional character based on it. And that character is not holy or anything, cuz he's just a charcter created by people who wrote Bible.

[Bridge of Clay]

so you´re saying one writer wrote all of the Bible? it´s over 60 books, man! And how come he could live for so long to relate King´s stories? and how did he predict the future? astonishing!


you´re too bitter, man... I´m sorry for you.

[Lechium]

Read carefully my previous post please. "people who wrote the Bible". Bibleocal (sp?) stories started as spoken word legends, myths, and bits of actual history. Than people wrote them down. That's why when it comes to kings and battles Bible is right on many occasions, as these parts come form history. Parts about God and stuff come from myths, legends, and what writers were thinking. Many times they take actual events and spice them up big time -- Jesus, for example. He defently existed, but miracles and him being god/song of god is very questionable.

[Wylde-Tremonti]

....Man...you need serious spiritual help....I'm sorry that's just how i feel.....

[Bridge of Clay]

that was non-sense to me... you didn´t answer my question... plus a few Im posting now

how could people who wrote the Bible predict the future?

how everything today is just like what Jesus preached?

if the flood never happened, why shell are found on the top of the highest mountains?

how could they know that the temple of Jerusalem would be destroyed?

[Lechium]

>how could people who wrote the Bible predict the future?
Many other religions made a lot of predicitions which came true. Nostradamus was just a guy, and he predicted a lot. Predictions dont mean much. Also the Bible had originally way more books than ones you see now. Many were thrown away. Good chance ones woth predicitions which didnt work were thought to be not God inspired and thrown away.

>how everything today is just like what Jesus preached?
Jesus was a smart guy who used common sence.

>if the flood never happened, why shell are found on the top of the highest mountains?
Tallest mountains were under on teh bottom of the sea millenia ago. In the beginning enitre earth was covered by water. Than land rose. Many pieces of land sank unfterwards. Ask any geologist and he'll give you a good and detailed answer.

>how could they know that the temple of Jerusalem would be destroyed?
All major tamples that ever existed were either destroyed or severaly damaged. Exept of inca's pyramids.

[Bridge of Clay]

Nostradamus made a lot of wrong predictions. Remember he said the world was supposed to end in 1999. Bible never failed.

Jesus used common sence. Of course. He´s our Maker. Remeber that at that time, they didn´t have press or internet. He told us a lot that ordinary people of that time couldn´t even imagine.

Flood: satellites made pictures of Noah´s ark, it´s placed on the ararat mountains. Spends most of the time covered by snow. It´s impossible to get up there due the area´s condition: war and rebel forces. By the way, it´s placed exactly where the Bible said it is.

Temple: not the fact that it wouldn´t be left stone over stone. You can find ruins. Jerusalem´s temple has no ruins, since they removed all the fundations (sp?) to steal its gold.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by N30°14'?.7 W84°
Nostradamus made a lot of wrong predictions. Remember he said the world was supposed to end in 1999. Bible never failed.

Jesus used common sence. Of course. He´s our Maker. Remeber that at that time, they didn´t have press or internet. He told us a lot that ordinary people of that time couldn´t even imagine.

Flood: satellites made pictures of Noah´s ark, it´s placed on the ararat mountains. Spends most of the time covered by snow. It´s impossible to get up there due the area´s condition: war and rebel forces. By the way, it´s placed exactly where the Bible said it is.

Temple: not the fact that it wouldn´t be left stone over stone. You can find ruins. Jerusalem´s temple has no ruins, since they removed all the fundations (sp?) to steal its gold. I think he's just trying to be difficult now:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :confused: ;)

[rodirocker]

Originally posted by Lechium
<b>Read carefully my previous post please. "people who wrote the Bible". Bibleocal (sp?) stories started as spoken word legends, myths, and bits of actual history. Than people wrote them down. That's why when it comes to kings and battles Bible is right on many occasions, as these parts come form history. Parts about God and stuff come from myths, legends, and what writers were thinking. Many times they take actual events and spice them up big time -- Jesus, for example. He defently existed, but miracles and him being god/song of god is very questionable. </b>

Dude, you are saying all this obviously with no knowledge of the Bible or the content in it, or how it was written, or the context in which it was written, or who Jesus was, and who the people were who recorded the Gospel and how they did it. The Bible, yes, was written by man. But it was inspired by the Holy Spirit, making it inerrant. You give me one example of where the Bible his historically wrong. There may be a couple times where it seems to contradict it's history, but there is always a good explanation for that misconception. And about God being a myth and legend. How can that be if God is who created this world.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Lechium
>how could people who wrote the Bible predict the future?
Many other religions made a lot of predicitions which came true. Nostradamus was just a guy, and he predicted a lot. Predictions dont mean much. Also the Bible had originally way more books than ones you see now. Many were thrown away. Good chance ones woth predicitions which didnt work were thought to be not God inspired and thrown away.

>how everything today is just like what Jesus preached?
Jesus was a smart guy who used common sence.

>if the flood never happened, why shell are found on the top of the highest mountains?
Tallest mountains were under on teh bottom of the sea millenia ago. In the beginning enitre earth was covered by water. Than land rose. Many pieces of land sank unfterwards. Ask any geologist and he'll give you a good and detailed answer.

>how could they know that the temple of Jerusalem would be destroyed?
All major tamples that ever existed were either destroyed or severaly damaged. Exept of inca's pyramids. The people who wrote the bible didn't get their information from their own opinions:rolleyes: They got them from God and the holy spirit:rolleyes: God told them what to write...DUH:confused: Your trying to make God nonexistant by our opinions and that isn't really gonna work;)

[Agent D]

There was something in the Bible about not entertaining fools, wasn't there? Sorry, I should probably know my Bible references better than I do. But I've seen these kinds of arguements before. There's no point to them. No side is ever going to convince the other. So why bother arguing about it?:confused:

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Agent D
There was something in the Bible about not entertaining fools, wasn't there? Sorry, I should probably know my Bible references better than I do. But I've seen these kinds of arguements before. There's no point to them. No side is ever going to convince the other. So why bother arguing about it?:confused: Good idea;) It is gettin kind a tiring tryin to convince him:rolleyes: I think I've given up on it now;) He can believe whatever he wants:confused: :rolleyes:

[rodirocker]

Originally posted by Agent D
There was something in the Bible about not entertaining fools, wasn't there? Sorry, I should probably know my Bible references better than I do. But I've seen these kinds of arguements before. There's no point to them. No side is ever going to convince the other. So why bother arguing about it?:confused:

thousands of people get convinced every day. But over a bb? not sure about that.

[Lechium]

2Julie: >The people who wrote the bible didn't get their information from their own opinions They got them from God and the holy spirit

That's what the CLAIM. Just cuz they wrote down that they were inspired by God doesnt make it so. If i write here that what I say is inspired by God you're gonna laugh at me... so laugh at them too...

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Lechium
2Julie: >The people who wrote the bible didn't get their information from their own opinions They got them from God and the holy spirit &nbsp;

That's what the CLAIM. Just cuz they wrote down that they were inspired by God doesnt make it so. If i write here that what I say is inspired by God you're gonna laugh at me... so laugh at them too... You kno what:rolleyes: Not to be mean or nuffin but I am no longer discussing this subject with you:mad: You are hopeless and not worth the time argueing about something that you obviouisly have no clues about;) My suggestion would be that if you don't kno anything about the bible in the first place then you have no right bashing it or who wrote it and who it was inspired by:madder: :snooze: So don't even try argueing with me any further! You are obviously blind to the truth:confused: :eek: ;)

[Lechium]

I dont bash Bible. I am questioning huge claim it does, that's it.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Lechium
I dont bash Bible. I am questioning huge claim it does, that's it. I'm just really tired of argueing bout it:rolleyes: :angel: I wasn't tryin to be a bioch;)

[Xterminator27]

Um i have no clue what to say. What i CAN tell u though is Lechum is preachen bullshit.

Remeber when jesus says....

"You belive because you see, Blessed are those who belive when they do not see."

When that guy didnt belive he ressurected and he came and said put ur finger in the hole thing.

I belive in god. Oviously, how could i not, and i belive in him strongly for he has answered many of my questions.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Xterminator27
<b>Um i have no clue what to say. What i CAN tell u though is Lechum is preachen bullshit. &nbsp;

Remeber when jesus says....

"You belive because you see, Blessed are those who belive when they do not see."

When that guy didnt belive he ressurected and he came and said put ur finger in the hole thing.

I belive in god. Oviously, how could i not, and i belive in him strongly for he has answered many of my questions. </b> Darn right X:angel: ;) I would have to agree with ya on that:D :dancing: I am just tryin my darndest to be nice ta him:rolleyes: Even though I have no clue where he gets his ideas and information from:confused:

[creeder]

Love god toooooooooooooo:dancing: :angel:

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by creeder
Love god toooooooooooooo:dancing: :angel: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :angel:

[Ivan_Creed]

I love God and He loves me.. and all of you... As it goes for Lechium, no man wrote the Bible, just translated!! No one is capable writing such a thing!! So think again.. :bounce:

[Lady Valkyrie]

Ok Lechium are you the same person that was arguing in another thread that one cannot "lose" their salvation? If you are then you know what? you seriously need to take a step back and look at what you are doing to this board. You are one minute debating with christians about their fundamental beliefs one second and the next you are even denying that God even exists, only in the minds of those who will believe. You are deliberatly making fun of others religious beliefs. You are patronizing others for their beliefs by pretending you actually know something about christian fundamentals such as salvation.

It is apparent that you do not believe that a real God exists. It is evident that you do not believe the Bible is the infallible inspired word of God. And dude that's ok with me. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE AS YOU WANT! JUST AS WE HAVE THAT VERY SAME RIGHT! We will respect you if you will respect us.

I can't believe you haven't been banned from this board yet! Geez!

[Lady Valkyrie]

And one last thought Lechium...

Even IF... THAT'S A BIG IF you were even close to being right about God and the Bible so what?

For thousands of years many HAVE believed in God and the Bible. What are you going to do about it Lechium? Huh? What exactly are you wanting to do? Are you wanting to try and illeminate all christians from this earth? Are you wanting to ban the Holy Bible from the whole earth? What is your agenda?

And what about all other religions? What about the Buddists, Hindus, Satanists, Wiccans, Witches, and all the other religions of the world. ALL OF THEM BELIEVE IN A GOD/GODDESS OF SOME SORTS AND A HOLY BOOK OF SOME SORTS! What is your agenda for them? Are you wanting to eliminate ALL religion from the entire world?

Or is it you are just such a loser that you just have to come to a message board and make fun of, antagonize, and patronize those who do believe in a God/goddess?

I say that if you continue to act like this that you be thrown off the board for good. If you choose yo understand that we have our beliefs and you have yours and we all can fellowship on this board and have a good time in peace then I say you can stay.

It's too bad I'm not a moderator.
;)

[Dogstar]

Hi, Lady V....nice to see ya back...btw, Lechium is in a supposed self-imposed exile. He claims to have left the board for good.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Darn right Dogstar:dancing: PARTY CUZ LECH IS GONE!:bigjump: :thewave: :balloons: :party2:

[Wadrick]

No, Lady Valkerie...that was me about people loosing their salvation. I am am Christian and all that I say is taken from the Bible and nowwhere else.

People like Lechium just make me sad. they make me sad because they are blind to the truth and it makes me sad because I can do nothing to help them. Lechium is going to hell, unless god opens his eyes, and saves him. now, that is not said out of contempt. I am very sad and sorry of Lechium, but it is partly his choice to believe thathe doesn'r need god. Every one needs god. however not everyone will find him. lechium needed to stay ont h boards just a little while longer, so that i and the others out there could share with himn the truth. even if he would not listen.

I just feels so bad for him. He really needs prayer. lets pray for him.

What happened?!?!?! our king decided ot leave?1?!?!?!?! why?!?!?!? I haven't been on in a while, I must have missed it. dang that is sad.

see yall later.

[Lechium]

2Wadrick: from what I remeber hell is describes as an eternal seperation from God. Seperation from God is the main punishment. So why do you think that being eternely seperated from someone I dont even belive in is such a grizzly fate for me?
You're thinking in terms of absolute good and evil, while things are relative.

[Wadrick]

Well, hell is seperation from God for eternity.

In Hell, there will be grinding and gnashing od teeth as the Bible point out. Are you familiar with the story of the rich man Lazarus? He was a rich man, who did not trust in God, but rather in himself. The LORD struck him down, and the account of his being in Hell, or Sheol (I can't remember what euphemism is used, but it is hell) , and it says that he was in utter anguish and toment and torture. All that he wanted was a drop of water on his tongue to relieve the pain, but he would not get it. And he wanted to wanr his friends and his brothers not to be as he did, but to be better, so that they would not suffer the same fate, pain, ans suffering as he did. But we could not do that either. Hell, is a place where there will be torture forever. How old are you? 22? That is a long time, right? How would like to relive all that? Well, think of not only living 22 years, but living throughout eternity, in hell, where there is complete and utter torture, burning, suffering, pain , and seperation from God.

The Bible says that all creatures above, on and below the earth will bow the knee, and confess Jesus Christ as LORD. You will confess Jesus as LORD sometime in the future as I will and as I look forward to.

You said, that that would not be that bad of a punishment - "seperation from God forever" - beause you don't even believe in Him. But that is not all that will take place in hell. If you do not come to grips that JEsus Christ is LORD or that he died on the cross to pay for the sins of mankind (for all thos who believe in Him), you will be there in hell, forever and ever (eterity), being tortured, burned, and in pain and suffering. There is nothing that you can do to get out of it except believe in Christ.

I think that it is sad that you do not believe, but there is nothing that I can do about it, only God can save you. I don't know, if he has predestined you to be saved or not, but I can only pray for you (which I will most definately do).

Well, there you go. I hope that this answers your questions ;)

Dude, are you just an athiest, or do you have some other freaky religion that you believe in - or are you a Satanist? What do you think about Satanism, and why do you not think that Satanism is not he same thing as Devil - worship? It is the same thing. Satan and the Devil are the same being. Thereofre, it is the same thing.

Hope you have a good day, seriously.

Please respond.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Lechium]

Satanism is not related to Christianity in any way. They use same word "Satan" to discribe different things, just like ancient Greeks and Christians use word "god" to describe diffrent things.

I am not Satanist but I am mildly interested n thsi phylosophy. I am agnostic so I'm looking for teh truth. Buddism and Hindyims are 2 religions I like the most actually.

[Wadrick]

whay are you interested in those religions when all of them can be refuted? no scientific discovery in the history of ever or any discovery for that matter, has refuted the truths that the Bible has to offer. everything that you believe in is false. it can be proved to be untrue. but nothing in the bible can proved to be false. no discovery in the history of mankind has proved the bible to be false. ask me any question that you think proves the bible to be wrong and I will set you straight.

hey have a good day.

[Lechium]

What scientific discovery has proven Buddism to be false? I really wanna know that.

[Wadrick]

well, all that buddism is, is just a collection of ideas, and things that are fell - good. Ephesisians 2:8-9. "For by grace have you been saved and that not of yourselves. It is a gift from God, not as a result of works, that no man should boast."

All Buddism is a system of works that in no way can merit eternal life, which is the "gift" mentioned in the above verse.

There is no scientific discovery that can prove buddism to be false. But there are the words of God that prove it to be false. If I remember the religion correctly, Buddism, is a system of good things that you are supposed to do (In the Bibile, they are called "works"). If you do them you will be happy, and will have eternal life in heaven. (Well you will be happy, but not to the highest point of happiness that you could have in life. That happiness only comes though Christ. John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.") If you do not do the good things, you will not go to heaven, but to hell, to be punished for not being good.

So, as you can see, there is not enough information to disprove. Sure, all the things that Buddah teaches are good things, but not good enough to get you to heaven. In fact, no work is good enought to get you in to heaven. The only way is through faith in Christ.

Does that make sense?

Another question, please?

[Lechium]

If sience cant prove neither Buddism not Christianity wrong, how is Christianity more possible? Just because Bible says so? That's not good enough. There's no real proof for either, so both are possible, that's why I do not totally dismiss either, neither totally accept them. I'm more inclined in direction of Buddims because it works better with the person I am and my system of ideals.

[Wadrick]

What is your sustem of ideals?

Scinece can not prove Christianity wrong ad nothing else can because that is thr truth. I do not have that much information about Buddism stored away in my brain, so forgive me if I am wrong in some of my conclusions in Buddism. I do not kow that much about it, so I don't actuall know if there are any scientific discoveries that disprove Buudism, but as I said before, all it is is just a bunch of good things that you have to do.

I have a question, do you believe that man is sinful? If yes, then how can man who is sinful do good things when he is not good in nature to warrant eternal life with God in heaven? Well, there is not a way.

I am used to talking to people who have wrong views of Christianity that they believe in, or athiests. Please hold on...It is kind of hard to change from what I used to do, to another whole religion.

Hey, not to get off the subject, (I willanswer your question, I just need some time), but why don't you believe in Christianity? IS it just because you do not want to believe it, but deep down inside you do, or don' believe it because of the facts, or why? That would help me understand where you are coming from.

Well, I gotta go for now, but I will answer your question, I just need to get a little info about Buddism.

Don't think that you have beaten me ;)

[Lechium]

Sinful? Sin is an action that is absplutly bad. I belive everything is relative, so if I'm dying of strvation and got no money, than I will steal and by no means will that be a bad thing to do. So once I do not belive in the idea of sin I do not belive that people are sinful.

Christinity has that thing -- you either with us or you go to hell. That cant be right, I belive in freeodm of choice beyond the grave, that your choice is only altered by the person you are not by judgment form above. Karma fits that (no judgment, only what you are). Christianity paints evything in black and white, and there are more than two colors in this life.

[Wadrick]

well, that is abelieve that is held by many people. I am sorry to say that they (you) are wrong. Therea re onmly 2 colors in this world. Either you belive in Christ and go to heaven for eternity, or you do not believe in Christ and you go to hell for eternity.

To be frank, you think that way because it is to hard to believe in Chritianity. you think that becaue you have to choose either one or the other, it is to hard. you do not believe because Christianity is not a feel good religion to some people. I am very happy where I am, happier then I could ever be. We havea very strick system of rules to follow, and that is there to make us better people. We have the rules here to show us that we are sinners and that we naeed a savior (christ). you want a religion that allows some lee way. but that is not the way it goes.

[Lechium]

You need to put your Bible down, and go out in a real world, and you'll see that world is far from black and white. Just cuz some book says it is, doesnt make it so.

[Wadrick]

dude, there is no other book that has had as much influence in the world then the Bible. Nothing comes close. The Bible has existed through persecution, fires, mass killings, the ages (2000 years atleast. that is just the new testamnet. the old testamnet was written much earlier.) and everything else. there is no other explanation. every other solution can be disproved. maybe not by me, i am just 15 years old, but I have disproven everything that you have told me about other religions.

I will not put down my Bible. The world is black and while. either you believe, or you don't believe. I think that you don't believe because you jusy won't. I have told you the facts, and have proved that what I say is true.

when you can't think of another arguement, you say things like what you just said. "you don't know anything, put your bible down, and all that. you can't prove that the bible is untrue, because it is the most true thing in the history of the world.

just believe lechium. You life woulw be so much better. you cannot disprove the bible, no matter how hard you try. you haven't given me anyhtng that I can't answer, and I am just an immature 15 year old. I would like to see oyu up against someone like Paul.

just believe dude. it is the truth. you can't escape it. it is the truth. just believe dude.

[Lechium]

Facts? You gave me no facts. YOu todl me that some things Bible has said were proven to be true, but it applies to mostly non religious (historical and stuff) aspect. There are no facts, that why people say "gotta have faith". Cuz there are no real facts backing up main dogma of Christianity.

And yes Bible did have big impact, so what? Koran has huge impact too. It's much younger, but it's gainign momentum like crazy. Do you know that in ENGLAND there are more pracitcing muslims than praciticing Chrisitians? Traditionally Catholic Phillipines are turnign to Islam... like it or not, but as impact/time ratio goes Koran kicks Bibles ass.
Do some research -- you'd be amazed.

[souldancer]

Originally posted by Wadrick
People like Lechium just make me sad. they make me sad because they are blind to the truth and it makes me sad because I can do nothing to help them. Lechium is going to hell, unless god opens his eyes, and saves him. now, that is not said out of contempt. I am very sad and sorry of Lechium, but it is partly his choice to believe thathe doesn'r need god. Every one needs god. however not everyone will find him.. Well, that means I would probably go to hell too...because the place I go to worship has a motto "One God, Many Paths": - we don;t believe the BIBLE is the ONLY way....nor do we believe that hell even exists, aside from an experience here on earth brought on my ignorance and hate. While I believe that the bible, along with other great books, has profound significance in the metaphors and teachings,,,,literal intepretations make me sick. You try to show compassion in wanting to pray for a 'sinner',,,,but the self-righteousness shines brightly.

[Lechium]

2souldancer: Totally agree. It's much easer (and more tempting really) to belive what Wadrik belives thou, cuz it's so convinient to have a book that has all the answers in it

[Wadrick]

Souldancer - If you don't believe that only God is the onl yway, then how do you explain the vrse John 14:6? It says, "Jesus said to them, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'" In this verse, literal interpretations is necessary. What the hell could it mean, if it did not mean what it said? You have t ointerperate the Bible literally. You don't want to interperate it literally becasue you don't like what ity says literally, so you make yourself feel better, you have to think of a wacky interpretaion that doesn't even make sense.

To Lechium - What they heck does that mean? IT is the hardest thing in the world to do what the Bible says. It soes not allow, getting drunk, premarital sex, adultery, stealing, homosexuality (but that is not a problem with me) or anything like that. You, should know what the bible says becasue if you don't you are arguing aainst something that you do not even know.

How the hell, is it much easier to belive what I say? If you believe what I say, Great. But it is the hardest thing in the world to be a Christian. But it doesn't matter. Becasue is you do good in this world, you will be greatly rewarded in Heaven. It is convienent to have a book that has all the answers, because guess what? It does have all the answers. It is the ultimate authority becasie it is thw word of God.

You can't beat me in the debate, so you just say things like what you said to soul dancer, to get off the subject.

Just believe, dude, it is the only way.

[Lechium]

Originally posted by Wadrick

To Lechium - What they heck does that mean? IT is the hardest thing in the world to do what the Bible says. It soes not allow, getting drunk, premarital sex, adultery, stealing, homosexuality (but that is not a problem with me) or anything like that. You, should know what the bible says becasue if you don't you are arguing aainst something that you do not even know.

It's easy because you go though your life, knowing that all your questions will be answered, and you never hot the fork of the road, wondering which way to go.

Originally posted by Wadrick

But it is the hardest thing in the world to be a Christian.

Now this is just plain silly. There are many other, much more demaning religions. For example -- it's much harder for a Mulsim girl, than to a Chroistina girl. There are much more demaning professions, and lifestyles. If being Christian was HARDEST thing in teh world there woulnt be over a billion of them.

[Wadrick]

yeah, whatever, lechium. you can beat it, you kow that it is true. God says that He has revealed himself to the nations, and that all creation has heard of him. If you reject him now, you will die and be in Hell forever and ever. But it is not to late. Just belive dude.

[Unforgiven Fan]

god loves all even if you do not like Him or if you do not beleive in Him....

[Marty]

One thing you must realize is that, in the end everything IS black or white, by this concept we call "good and evil."

Lech, obviously you are looking for a truth, but you will not find it. For the truth you seek, cannot be found. You are looking for your truth. Not the truth in which we believe in. As my dad says, its not the name on the door, its whats taught inside. Our Lord, Jesus Christ died on the cross, and rose three days later. God is three person in one, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

As with many youth of this day and age, the world that we live in has corrupted our youth (one Creed song says that ;)), so we are looking for a more "easier" way out of things. We figure if we believe that there is a God. There is a difference between believe there is a God, and believing THE God. Not Allah, not Satan, not whatever false god. The road and life of a person who believes in God (and His son Jesus) is hard. Its troublesome, and can end in death. But to die is to live forever with our Lord.

So Lech, believe what you will. Obviously you have a grip on what you can believe in. In the end we cannot convince you of what is the correct path, you must convince yourself, and believe. Faith manages.

I bid you ado, and I will pray that you will come to know Christ and that someone will come to you and show you the way. :)
________
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[Wadrick]

untrue. how can God who is perect and holy love a sinner who does not even believe in Him? He loves the elect, that is, those who believe, but if you don't believe, you will be in hell, because you have not belived, if you do believe, then you will be in heaven because you did believe.

Where do you get off, saying things like that, without any proof? There is not place in the Bible that says what you said. NOt anywhere. Prove it.

I already have disproven it. what verse makes you think that He loves everyone on the earth? Does he love the Satanists, who hate him>? Now, he would love them if they believed in him, but not until then.

[Wadrick]

to the "dude": I like that. That is so true. That is what I have been saying to Lechium. He just won't listen. We will have to let God do the rest. He have done everything humanly possible; all we can do know is pray.

You're cool, man!!

[Marty]

Thanks man. You are pretty cool yourself! :)

It kind of is funny how Lech's "status" is "Taken Higher"
________
ROLL A JOINT (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

[Wadrick]

Thanks. Yeah, I know ;) He is anything, but "taken Higher." That is the last place that he will probably be going, regretfully.

[Lechium]

You sound so sure that what you think is right. Not a tiniest shadow of a doubt...

P.S. Please stop feeling sorry for me. I dont think I'm going to hell, and that's all there is to it. Be happy.

[Wadrick]

you said "You sound so sure that what you think is right. Not a tiniest shadow of a doubt..."

there is not shadow of a doubt.

okay, conversation over. I am wasting my time over someone who has not bee choen ot believe. I don't fell sorry for you. I feel sorry that you have been blinded from the truth, and that you will spend eternity in hell, regardless of what you think or not.

you said "I dont think I'm going to hell, and that's all there is to it. " Well, I bet that all those people who get who get murdered and raped, wanted it to happen either. That is not all there is to it. you do not have control over what is going to happen.

[bgivens33]

Originally posted by Wadrick
<b>you said "You sound so sure that what you think is right. Not a tiniest shadow of a doubt..."

there is not shadow of a doubt.

okay, conversation over. I am wasting my time over someone who has not bee choen ot believe. I don't fell sorry for you. I feel sorry that you have been blinded from the truth, and that you will spend eternity in hell, regardless of what you think or not.

you said "I dont think I'm going to hell, and that's all there is to it. " Well, I bet that all those people who get who get murdered and raped, wanted it to happen either. That is not all there is to it. you do not have control over what is going to happen. </b>

If he was not chosen to believe... how is God justified in sending him to hell? And if he was not chosen... how do you not feel sorry for him, it's not like he had a say in the matter.

[Wadrick]

hold on...

...are you serious, or just playing devil's advocate? Cause I spent all last night seaching for answers in the Bible, and have found several verses that totaly destroy what you think to be true.

But until I post them (I am not done), do you really think that?

You are having a religion/philosophy major right?

[Wadrick]

Here is my answer(s) to your question.

God is justified in sending him to hell because...

• Romans 8:18, ”So then He [God] has mercy on whom He has mercy, and He hardens whom He hardens.”
• Romans 9:19- “You will say to me then, ‘Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?’ On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the Molder, ‘Why did you make me like this,’ will it? Or does not he Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience for destruction? And He did so make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He also called…”

I think that the apart about the Potter and the clay is clear as to what this discussion is about. God, who is pictured as the potter, has control, power, dominion, whatever you want to call it, over us humans, pictured as the clay. But if you for some odd reason need more proof that you statement “-“ is very inaccurate, and far from the truth, here are some more:

• 1 Samuel 2:6, “The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol (Hell) and raises up.”
• Luke 12:5, “But I will warn you whom to fear; fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell, yes, I tell you, fear Him!”

Wow, what further proof do you need?? But alas, here is one more!

• Revelation 20: 15, “And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Hell).

I hope that all that makes sense.

I feel sorry for him because it is sad that he has been shown the truth, and still does not believe. But you are kind of right. Man does not have free will. Every man is predestined to be chosen to believe or to not believe. But when God chose who would believe at the beginning of time. I guess that we still have to believe "on our own" ina sense, but not all by ourselves. God already knows wether or not we will believe, and I guess that He makes it that way so that we can know wether we believe or not.

Does all thae make sense?

I seriously hope that you don't think that God does not have authority and is not justified to send people to hell.

I am going ot send this to you in a P.M. just to make sure that you get it.

[Lechium]

Wadrick youre wrong at the core.

You take Bible as an absolute truth. It was written by people so it can be, but likely it's wrong in places or maybe as a whole. And dont try to use quotes from Bible to prove that book true cuz it doesnt work that way.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Just because you do not believe in it doesn't mean its not true:rolleyes: ;)

[Lechium]

And just because you choos to belive in it doesnt make it true lol

[The Lithium]

For her it is....:dunno:

[JulieCitySlicker]

It is truth to me just as not believing is truth for you;)

[Wadrick]

lechium, the bible has never been disproven by anything throughout the ages - in the histoy of ever.

What the hell does that mean? It was written by people who have been inspired by God, and therefore it is the word of God. The bible was written by several people in a sense, but it all ame from God. You cannot say that that bible is untrue because nothing has disproven it. every scientific discovery instead proves it to be true.

B.S. It does work that way. You use verses to show people the truth that the bible has in it. is you being a buddhist, whant to convert someone, how the hell are you goin to convert him if you don't share with thim what that religion has to say? That is me, sharing verses.

What you say, makes no sense. The Bible does not contradict itself at all in the least. and people who think that it does, need to go study it before you produce some terrible charge against it thjat doesn't even hold water. people who think that the bible contradicts itself don't know what the bible says in the least. if the did know what the bible says, then they would know, that is is the absolute truth.

Give me just one, only one example where the bible truly contradicts itself. If I can't refute it, then f me.

[Lechium]

It was never proven either.
Give me proof of 7 day creation. There you go. And proof that it really was insired by God? Bible does lay down some historic facts, yeah, but spiritual talk there cannot be proven, so dont talk abotu it like it's a fact.

p.s. I'm not a buddist, I just like that religion a lot.

[Wadrick]

My mistake. In all of our other conversations you made yourself look like to me to be a Buddhist.

I said give me one example of where the Bible Contradicts itself.

The bible was created in 6 days actually. God rested on the seventh day, which is why the jews have the sabbath which is a day to rest after all the weeks work.

I can't prove the the world was created in 6 days scientifically, no one can. But the bible says that it was, so thereofre it was.

II Timothy - "All Scripture is inspired by Godand profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness..."

There you go, but you won't believe that because, "just because the bible says so, doesn't make it so :rolleyes: :rolleyes: "

But ou should believe it because it is true.

Now, that you could not follow my directions which was to give me an examle of where the bible contradicts itself, and instead gave a me fact to scientifically prove, lets do it over.

Show me where an instance is where the Bible contradicts itself.
Is that eas enough?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Lechium]

Bible just makes a lot of outrageous claims, and yeah you cannot disprove them, but you cannot prove them either.

Here's my claim: I am a son of God. This post was inspired by God himself.

Can you prove this statement wrong? Hardly. And Hey just like Bible I say it is inpsired by God, so it's gotta be true!
lol

[orlando]

:lol: good one Lechium

[Wylde-Tremonti]

yeah....Orlando= Lech

[orlando]

or not

[Wadrick]

well, the term "son of God" is used to mean a child or chosen one of God, which means that they are saved. Or, in the old testament the term "son of God" refers to the fallen angels or demons as they are called today. you, who love marilyn manson could be a son of god, sonce he is obviously possess by demons because he is an ordained minister in the church of satan. you, being one of his followers, could also be a son of God because you might be possessed by a demon. does talking about christianity scare you at all?

so, no, you are not a son of god in the sense that you are a christian, but you mught be a sone of God in the sense of demonic posession ;)

so, you are wrong in one sense, and perfectly correct in another.

[Wylde-Tremonti]

boy that was confusing....lol

[Lechium]

2Wadrick: You just brought beurocracy into spiritual world.

[Wadrick]

it was a joke, dumbass

[Lechium]

Temper, temper, altar boy.
Anger leads to the dark side, which is Satan. I can get angry. You cant. lol

[Wylde-Tremonti]

um....you can be angry w/ out sinning....

[Lechium]

But anger can make you slip... remeber how Yoda was talkign abut fear leading to anger leading to the dark side?
Anger is bad if you wanna be goody good and get to heaven =)

[Wylde-Tremonti]

you accaully dont have to be good to get to heaven...that's now how it works lech....

[Lechium]

Im just fucking around...

[TeriB19]

And you're annoying people. Shouldn't we ban you for that?

[Lechium]

Give me a list of people I annoy, and we'll see what's up.

[Wadrick]

teriB19 - we need to get a list of everyone that leech annoys. which is probably everyone. but if you make a lsit, i want to be the first to sign it.

hey leech you have a good day

[JulieCitySlicker]

Originally posted by Wadrick
teriB19 - we need to get a list of everyone that leech annoys. which is probably everyone. but if you make a lsit, i want to be the first to sign it.

hey leech you have a good day Lech isn't so bad anymore;) :angel:

[Wadrick]

wow, i never thought that we would actually like leech ;);)

[JulieCitySlicker]

Ya:P

[Wadrick]

haha

[SmEeKy]

So does it all actually end like this?? :-O

[Anonymous]

yes it does

[StrubesGuitar]

First,Wadrick, ever read that Scripture that says Speak the truth in love? Lechium is all sickened and confused now just cause u wanted to spout ur views w/o thinking about the person ur trying to witness to. Lechium, God is a loving God, and i know u've heard it a billion times. But, if it's facts u want, check out history. I read a book recently called THE CASE FOR CHRIST by Lee Strobel. I suggest u get the student version cause the rill dill is BORING and LONG! It's logical, historical, and isn't the most boring thing in the world. God is waiting for u. Just seek and you will find.

[Ivan_Creed]

Ppl, give Lech a break..... come on, there r ppl w/ different view points!!

[StrubesGuitar]

Yeah, but he has TOO MANY. he even says he doesn't have a belief to follow. He backs up post modernist views, but doesn't necessarily believe all of it. We shall tell Lech of the truth, and leave him to decide whether he will follow it or not. He's asking and defending, so i and all the other christians will do what we are called to do"go forth to all the nations and tell of Him", i am commanded to do that and i will w/o ?.

[mamm1234]

I am also not ashamed to say that I love God with all my heart and I thank Him everday for His blessings even though life has been very, very hard.

Without God, I do not live. It's even better to be able to share my faith with people and it makes me feel so good to hear other people speak of their love of God also.