More Conflict

[eusebioCBR]

I hope this will settle down soon.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203438,00.html
I'm not concerned over who's right or who's wrong.I don't like where it might lead.

[metalchris25]

I don't think I could have said it any better, my thoughts exactly.^

[bilal]

"hate" is a very powerfull driver............... those driven by it only causes more of it....i wonder how many hearts have turned to stone today ...... how many lost theri loved ones today...i wonder............ who is right...who is wrong......u guys are right...it becomes immaterial........

[Ana4Stapp]

"hate" is a very powerfull driver............... those driven by it only causes more of it....i wonder how many hearts have turned to stone today ...... how many lost theri loved ones today...i wonder............ who is right...who is wrong......u guys are right...it becomes immaterial........

A lebanon couple who was naturalized brazilians and lived in Brazil (Foz do Iguaçu city) for the last 14 years : Akil Merhei, his wife Ahlam Jabir Melei and their kids -a boy Ali (8 ) and a little girl Fatima (4) was killed while visiting their relatives this week. :(

right? wrong? :confused:

[metalchris25]

It's truly sad when things like that happen. That poor family had nothing to do with any of this. They call it collateral damage. BS is what it is.

[Mulletman]

Isreal has the right to defend itself, it just seems like it doesnt know what its doing. It's like giving your 8 year old kid a shotgun to defend himself against the school bully.

Isreal declared war against terrorist organizations, yet if you see, its crippling an entire country and attacking civilian targets. They did the same thing a few years back when they stormed arafat's compound.

[Ana4Stapp]

Isreal has the right to defend itself, it just seems like it doesnt know what its doing. It's like giving your 8 year old kid a shotgun to defend himself against the school bully.

Isreal declared war against terrorist organizations, yet if you see, its crippling an entire country and attacking civilian targets. They did the same thing a few years back when they stormed arafat's compound.

I can agree with almost everything u said...except that prhase in black....of course they know what they are doing....

They are defending themselves in a wrong way....using maximum force against Lebanon....killing civil ones....


But the point is....leaders of whole world are acting very carefully in avoid to condenm israel actions : Bush for instance is still ' very quiet' about it.......just because its Israel....I mean....if was a muslim country....if Lebanon was the attacker ... things certainly would be different...

[metalchris25]

It would not. Isreal is doing nothing wrong. They are attacking where its needed. Of course there are some civilian caualties, name a war where there wasn't. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe Bierut off the face of the Earth, but they, imo, are showing great restraint.

[Ana4Stapp]

It would not. Isreal is doing nothing wrong. They are attacking where its needed. Of course there are some civilian caualties, name a war where there wasn't. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe Bierut off the face of the Earth, but they, imo, are showing great restraint.
:eek: :eek: :wtf:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

[RalphyS]

It would not. Isreal is doing nothing wrong. They are attacking where its needed. Of course there are some civilian caualties, name a war where there wasn't. If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe Bierut off the face of the Earth, but they, imo, are showing great restraint.

To follow on with mulletman's equation, that's like saying Israel shows restraint, because it's only giving the 8 year old kid one shotgun out of the many it has to defend himself against the school bullies. :eek: :confused:

[metalchris25]

So they should have just sat by and let hezzbolah(sp) continue to fire rockets into Isreal like they have for a long time now? Just do nothing about them kidnapping thier soldiers?

Really, if Syria would stop hezbollah, this would be over. Period.

[Chase]

Israel has every right to defend itself from nations that harbor terror networks that are designed to attack innocent Israelis. Hezbollah made a mistake by taking a couple Israeli soldiers hostage and Lebanon made the mistake of housing Hezbollah and giving them a place in Lebanese politics. Israel is doing what they feel necessary to ensure the protection and prosperity of Jews living in Israel. It's rather difficult when you are a Jewish nation living in a hotbed of anti-semitism.

Israel is attacking key, strategic positions that will cripple Hezbollah. They aren't raping and pillaging the people of Lebanon. What they're basically doing is trying their best to attack areas in which Hezbollah is prevalent and blocking ports of entry (like airports and ship ports) to prevent nations like Iran and Syria from sending weapons to these terrorists.

Hezbollah and Hamas, both, have been responsible for not only Israeli deaths... but also the deaths of Americans (among others) over the years. Yet, here's the difference between Israel and those terror groups... Israel doesn't set out to kill as many innocent civilians as they possibly can... Hezbollah and Hamas have staged attacks that are designed to do exactly that. Major difference.

Another thing, Jews aren't killing people while chanting "God is great!" in Hebrew. Every filthy, Islamic terrorist out there is doing that... while they torture and behead (and dismember for that matter) their hostages.

War is terrible... but you know what's more terrible? Letting terrorist groups attack people without allowing people to defend themselves.

[metalchris25]

Brother, you took the words right out of my mouth, and I am glad. I was beginning to think I was the only one to think this way. On a side note, anyone catch Bush and Blair's convo today? Pretty funny stuff!

[Chase]

Brother, you took the words right out of my mouth, and I am glad. I was beginning to think I was the only one to think this way. On a side note, anyone catch Bush and Blair's convo today? Pretty funny stuff!

Trust me man, I am right there with you. I refuse to feel sympathetic for a TERROR network. They've brought this upon themselves and Lebanon is going to put their people in danger as long as they support terrorist organizations. Last year, when the Lebanese were striving to be free and independent from Syria... I supported them. Now, it's frustrating watching a nation like Lebanon (a nation in which I think is generally good)... fall under the influence of Islamic extremism.

And yes... lol I did catch that candid Bush and Blair conversation. It was hilarious and reassuring knowing that these guys are normal people and having normal emotions. It's hard for me to not say "shit" while discussing the brutality of terrorists... and I don't see why it's any different for President Bush... or even Prime Minister Blair.

[bilal]

Of course there are some civilian caualties


200 civillians in over 2 weeks , to be more exact



name a war where there wasn't.

this reminds me of a joke......a guy said he learned TAIKUANDO and KARATEE, and now he can take care of any body.....its easy....all he need is his buddys holding his opponents hands for him.....


If Isreal wanted to, they could wipe Bierut off the face of the Earth, but they, imo, are showing great restraint.


looks like they are doing the same...rather a little slowly so as not to ...well....wake any one up

[bilal]

So they should have just sat by and let hezzbolah(sp) continue to fire rockets into Isreal like they have for a long time now? Just do nothing about them kidnapping thier soldiers?

Really, if Syria would stop hezbollah, this would be over. Period.


if Syira would....i will say...if Syria COULD.......its not like shutting down a factory or closing a shop........ alright.... heres what i think......consider this..... Israel ....bommbing over 2 weekss....hit only civiillian targets.....why not attach hizbollah.....why not...why hit schools.....answere is.....WHERE IS HIZBOLLAH...........in a society where there are people furious over ...let say any thing...... they feel agitated...and angry .....though them might never feel or talk to one another....there is a common bond between themm...i guess we can call it "HATE"....... over time...these people see somehtin happening b4 their eyes....and they question their governments .....why the Government aint doing anything about it.....let say....i question my GOVernement that why isnt it alteast condeming Israel for killing my brothers.....and keeping eme poor.....Government says this..." worry about feeding ur own parents.....go to ur university....get ur degree....and fight poverty "....... some of the more fanatics.....they from a group......they might have one spokes person...but all the agreived people around becomes its members.....alright ...may be not all.....some.....but its invisible.......they get a volunteer.....they do something.....no Goverment can do much about it......heck...where to do.......Israel and USA...with all its intellegence...dont know where to drop those bombs.......how can a poor Governement stop any such organisations.......... and kill all the present leaders....if they can....what......will it help...kill 10 now.....get 20 for free in future.........u cant oppress HATE.......just like mettalica said.....

" Just like a curse, just like a stray.
You feed it once and now it stays,
Now it stays.” Metallica – until it sleeps



So brother…I would say that the HATE here may take the name of Hizbollah or anything else……or may take the name of Government on part of opposition....there they may have the shield of democracy and self defence to flare out theri hate.....here the poor guys may search refuge under the umbrella of Hizbollah....…and as far as religion goes…..i earnestly don’t believe that this conflict is about religion ……atleast not anymore……..religion might have been the initial reason for the “feed of hate”……but not anymore…oh no…..now its just us and them…..and our hate………peace is not impossible…..but the recent actions of Israel…….or past 50 years or so of history..i don’t seen any quick solution very soon……its not like u shut down hizbollah ….or any other gummy bear factory….and the problem is over……

[eusebioCBR]

Generations of hatred will not be changed by a treaty and a cease fire will only delay the inevitable.:(
While religion may no longer be the focus of this conflict it's still the foundation on which both sides stand.
At this point in man kind's development I'm still convinced this is a world ruled by aggression. Therefore peace can only be defined with a clear victor.(I'm not being boastful).......logical?:confused:
If you happen to believe/have faith in GOD as I do. This is probably part of a bigger plan.
I wish both sides would walk away from this, but I just don't believe that will happen.

[RalphyS]

I do not deny Israel the right to defend itself and ofcourse I condemn the kidnappings of the Israeli soldiers, and I do think that organisations like Hezbollah and Hamas are legitimate targets, but bombing cities cannot be the answer either.

I heard on the news that Hezbollah wun like less than 10% of the votes in the last (democratic?) elections in Lebanon, therefore you cannot blame 100% of the lebanese people for the actions of Hezbollah, it's like declaring war on the US for the actions of the KKK.

Meanwhile it proves that democracy isn't the answer to everything, Hamas wun democratic elections in Palestine, Hezbollah is a political force in Lebanon. I believe we need to educate people before we 'spread democracy'.

[metalchris25]

I agree with a lot of that Ralphy, but Isreal is not at war with Lebanon. They have openly said this. They are trying to flush out Hezbollah. There is no other way to do this. It is not like they are deliberatly targeting packed schools and temples and stuff. I do agree that we should educate people before we spread democracy, but how do you educate those unwilling to learn?

[bilal]

Generations of hatred will not be changed by a treaty and a cease fire will only delay the inevitable.:(
While religion may no longer be the focus of this conflict it's still the foundation on which both sides stand.
At this point in man kind's development I'm still convinced this is a world ruled by aggression. Therefore peace can only be defined with a clear victor.(I'm not being boastful).......logical?:confused:
If you happen to believe/have faith in GOD as I do. This is probably part of a bigger plan.
I wish both sides would walk away from this, but I just don't believe that will happen.


you said exactly what i wanted to say..... and these are my fears too...... and these fears seems to be the only hope.....

[bilal]

I do not deny Israel the right to defend itself and ofcourse I condemn the kidnappings of the Israeli soldiers, and I do think that organisations like Hezbollah and Hamas are legitimate targets, but bombing cities cannot be the answer either.

I heard on the news that Hezbollah wun like less than 10% of the votes in the last (democratic?) elections in Lebanon, therefore you cannot blame 100% of the lebanese people for the actions of Hezbollah, it's like declaring war on the US for the actions of the KKK.

Meanwhile it proves that democracy isn't the answer to everything, Hamas wun democratic elections in Palestine, Hezbollah is a political force in Lebanon. I believe we need to educate people before we 'spread democracy'.


educate who?.....if the education is making people see what u want em to see....then i can see there is a nice class room goin on in Iraq right now......i love the methods the Teachers are using to teach democracy......... its really hard for west to understand just why terrorism blamed groups like Hammas and HIzbollah actualy manages to win.....just in the same way people of the Islamic world are confused how the west, with all democracy and human rights, can actually tollerated occupation and war......and crimes that are committed under the umbrella of democracy.......may be its time we also decide who needs to be educated and what? ......

[RalphyS]

educate who?.....if the education is making people see what u want em to see....then i can see there is a nice class room goin on in Iraq right now......i love the methods the Teachers are using to teach democracy......... its really hard for west to understand just why terrorism blamed groups like Hammas and HIzbollah actualy manages to win.....just in the same way people of the Islamic world are confused how the west, with all democracy and human rights, can actually tollerated occupation and war......and crimes that are committed under the umbrella of democracy.......may be its time we also decide who needs to be educated and what? ......

Iraq is exactly the example of how not to spread democracy, forcing a feeble democracy on people, who do not how to handle it properly is not the way to go.

I do understand how groups like Hamas and Hezbollah manage to win, the feed on the hatred of people towards their 'enemies', but if you ever want a peaceful future, the only option is 'to love your enemy'. You have to let reason win over sentiment, when you vote. That's why, at least in my humble opinion, there is no place for religion in politics.

And indeed democracy is no guarantee for succes or even decent governing, but we have yet to find a better method of governing. A few quotes come to mind:

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965), Hansard, November 11, 1947

[bilal]

Iraq is exactly the example of how not to spread democracy, forcing a feeble democracy on people, who do not how to handle it properly is not the way to go.

I do understand how groups like Hamas and Hezbollah manage to win, the feed on the hatred of people towards their 'enemies', but if you ever want a peaceful future, the only option is 'to love your enemy'. You have to let reason win over sentiment, when you vote. That's why, at least in my humble opinion, there is no place for religion in politics.



yeh...ur right...... Iraq is even more complicated than Afghanistan...in Afghanistan..it became easy for US in the end cause since USA won theiri with the help of Nothren Alliance (shia group) and made all government witth em except for a suni group president as sugar coating over a bad pilll.......even the millitary head was the latter accused mass murduror of taliban....but they patched up for initial gov just fine......in Iraq...there is not that rebelism to work in the favour....so lets see...how it all turns out in the end.....end...if its ever there.......as far as sepration of religion and politics goes......you will have to see that out of all Islamic countires...non has a true democratic government.......even my country PAkistan.....so any muslim democratic governemnt not based on fundamentals of islam is very difficult in my oppinion.......or else....people will keep drifting towards groups like hammas or hizbollah or whatever........

[Ana4Stapp]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html

Israel halts attacks for 48 hours

Airstrike killing dozens of civilians called a 'mistake'
QANA, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel has agreed to suspend airstrikes on southern Lebanon for 48 hours to investigate a Sunday airstrike that killed more than 60 people in Qana, Lebanon, a U.S. State Department spokesman said.


60 civilians , 37 children :(

[Chase]

Hezbollah is embedding militants in residential areas and are wearing civilian clothing to blend in with local residents. This is disgusting and in my opinion, a tactic that they are using to further a negative public relations campaign against Israel.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19955774-5007220,00.html

[bilal]

but chase....i think Hizbollah is protecting Lebnon.....and if they need to wear civilian stuff......they will.....and most of the people is hizbolla are actually civilians...ai.e as per my knowledge......tell me....you must be seeing this as disgusting.....but i think its PATRIOTISM......cause Hizbollah is working for the will of the people of lebnon...where as Israel is the occupaying army......although its the main purpose of Israel to week down Hizbollah....by naming it terrorsit....throwing leaflets over the cities saying that Hizbollah is responsible for the people WE killed.........and i guess this pointing of civilian clothes isj ust one of the these tactics.........Israel is in no way welcomed by the people of lebnon......if it wasnt Hizbollah standing in the way....ISrael would have occupied lebnon once again........now u might say that its only due to this resistance that people are dying...then tell me.....which country in the world will let an oppresing army occupy them......its inhumane.......


i was seeing interview of a beruit citizen in news....and he was saying that for most of the civilians of beruit...it was a dream that Israel will send in its ground forces......so that theycan take theri revenge for the crimes of Israel against theri forefathers and their brothers in Palestine...........so that they could feel them in theri range and do what ever they can to get their hands on them......so what civillians you are talking about....might just be some doctors or busnessmen...but know turned fighters

its funny why do people see patriotism as acceptable ony for them selves and not for the others....if two countries are at war.....soldliers shooting and dying are driven by one emotion..... i,e PATRIOTISM.......but fail to see it for the other and reserve the right for it over themselves.......let say if some country invades my country, i am a working accountant....but i will make sure if i have to blow up my self to stop the envading army..i wont think twice....and i am sure CHase..you wont think twice to blow up your self to stop an occupying army , to save your country.....the country you love the most.........but one of the ugly sides of war is that both sides fail to see Patriotism in each ohter eyes....and reserves it only for them selves.....Israel on the other hand has used civilians as humun shield....i saw once on BBC....when Israel put some captured civiilans...locked em up in a container...and lifted the container with the help of giant crane...over above GAZA skyies.....and asked militants to surrender or the people will be killed....s.o what i think is that this is just one of the things to distract the matter from its main purpose.......

i hope you will respond to correct me if i am wrong

[eusebioCBR]

I'm having a difficult time accepting that Isreal is an aggressive nation. Sure they've beat the sh*t out of neihboring countries, but it seems Isreal is always provoked in some manner.
I may just be a dumb Ameican, but I think Hizbolla's hatred for Isreal outweighs their patriotism for Lebannon. They hate me(American) too.

[Ana4Stapp]

I'm having a difficult time accepting that Isreal is an aggressive nation. Sure they've beat the sh*t out of neihboring countries, but it seems Isreal is always provoked in some manner.
I may just be a dumb Ameican, but I think Hizbolla's hatred for Isreal outweighs their patriotism for Lebannon. They hate me(American) too.

See Eusebio....I respect ur opinion and feelings for the israeli people and be sure I share the same feelings ...but Im sick of Israel governement being treated as the Good side('but it seems Isreal is always provoked in some manner" -se waht Im saying? )
while they are using extreme methods of violence - and 'promoting' the image of the muslim world as the Evil side....today I received an email showing horrible pics from the Israel attacks in Beirute.... Of course this is a war....so theres no pity and goodness involved in this...this is not waht im saying....but seeing Israel destroy Lebanon posing as the Eternal victim really pisses me off. And pisses me really off when we all know that to these leaders theres no more religion as the 'reason' (God gave to them)....but the MONEY involved in this kind of war...... cuz both sides (Hezbollah and Israel receive financial help to continue this ...) so theres no possibility to end this kind of conflict and consequently LOTS of INNOCENT people will die ....

[bilal]

I'm having a difficult time accepting that Isreal is an aggressive nation. Sure they've beat the sh*t out of neihboring countries, but it seems Isreal is always provoked in some manner.
I may just be a dumb Ameican, but I think Hizbolla's hatred for Isreal outweighs their patriotism for Lebannon. They hate me(American) too.


exactly bro....u said again the right thing.....ask any of my poor countrymen and he will write you a long list why he SHOULD hate u.....hehe.........(just kidding ...but not entirely).....i am sure your not dumb at all......and i am here to learn a lot from you guys....not to say that i havent so fasr......and i.e by knowing your opinions....and i respect em all......

you see bro....i am sure you will know better what i am trying to say but do u think members of Hizbollah were planted in lebnon by some alien ship passing by....or they are some dumb fu**s who dont know that they need to lift the toiled seat before they let go..........why do they hate Israel...... are they born with some Iodine defincency which is caused by Israel dumping some chemical in theri water........and one more thing that i want to say , and that something i am saying with utmost honesty and beliefe.....given a chance to any Pakistani youth or normal man....to carry a gun and be their and Lebnon border right now....to fight Israel Army......no one will give it a secound thought .....or many have this dream as theri midnight fantacy.......WHY?.........is it any religious matter??.......or is it something else.....u pointed out HATE.......where did that came from....why??.......do u think watchin news here in my country is a easy thing.......if i dont drop tears every time i see BBC or any EURO news...i may as well go blind.......i know its my religious duty to do justice at all senario.......but its part of our life know.......i am tired and so is every other Muslim......few days back....we might be talking against Hizbollah....for distorting Islam image (and it being a shia group....which is not the mainstream Islamic group, for things like they are milllitants....and cant be given to run a country....)........but since they are fighting Israel for their independce....they are somewhat hero figuure in our eyes know.......i am not saying all thing Hizbollah did or are doing is good......but atleast!.........

i dont know why west wont let Muslims realise their Concept of UMMAH....i.e all muslims are brothers and sisters...and we cant live with peace untill each muslim is free and is not being occupied or tortured......why non-muslim countires fear this....i dont know......USA went to Iraq, the went to Afghanistan ....they are unhappy with IRAN's nuclear plans.....they sanction my country for not controlling millitant activites...know USA has given Israel the licence to kill cause they have named yet anohter dog as BAD...and now they are after to put a bullet in its head......USA has done every thing....but fail to do or let anyone do any CURE to the source of all the trouble around all these muslim countries........the real cancer that is fueling all the hatred in all these above mentioned countires.....and that is the issue of PALESTINE......always keeping UN aside....just its protection to ISRAEL and not doing any thing that is the source of all the issues...but playing along its aftermaths.....really bro...tell me.....can u image what the world would have been like if there was no ISRAEL /PALESTINE issue.....seriously...i might be wrong...can u imagine any difference........other issue that is also causing (according to my own understanding) is the presennce of USA army on oil reserves of SAUdia.....world knows....movies made....on how cheap this oil is being sucked by USA.....that being minor thing...its a disgrace for us as muslims that our holy land has presence of a foriegn army......this little things USA dont understands....is it realyly hard to accept that in a civilised world...occupaitons must be eneded.......everyone has a right to live and enjoy theri own cicle of freedom....and my circle of freedom is totally untouchable by you......but why do USA fails to see that....do u think i enjoy when Mr.Bush calls my country as AXIS of evil.......all this blasphamy....and this false associations ......dont care what we are going thrught...what our opinion is....what we care for...w.hat we feel for.......and then ask us ...why do we have so much hatered........

its time USA should learn to pull the plug......or let someone else do it.......if they want peace with the muslim world....they cant get it by killing everyone of us USA dont like.......they will get peace with us only if they start acting rationaly.....and i dont mean any politics or any other things....c;mon....am i talking nutts here......

as always bro...I TOTALLLY agree with you as to what u said.....ABSOLUTELY.....i hope u can make out some meaning out of my post relating it to what u said....and i dont feel necessary to recall all the crimes Israel has committed in the name of self defence........i am sure you know em better.....and that how much weightage i give to your earlier post regarding all ending in a duel...hehe......doesnt that makes more sence in all these hopless thing i speak

[eusebioCBR]

^I agree with both of you. I think your(Bilal) question concerning if Isreal had never been reminds me of where I truly am with all this. Isreal is there for a reason(plan). This might not be the point in time when prophecy goes full throttle, but only ONE knows for sure. Ana I noticed on your my space you said you're Catholic, I'm Christian and Bilal you're Muslim. We have been educated in our faiths and................., What I'm trying to say is this conflict will one day lead to something bigger and much worse(WW3). I don't know if this is that time and I really don't HATE either side of this because it's all part of GOD'S plan.

I can't be more honest than that.

[metalchris25]

^Wow, you just said what I have been trying to say since this thing began, but didn't know how.^

[eusebioCBR]

^Wow, you just said what I have been trying to say since this thing began, but didn't know how.^

thanks Chris. i expected to be called a nut or who knows what;)

[metalchris25]

It sounded perfectly rational to me, and if that makes you nuts, then I'll be wearing a straightjacket with ya.

[bilal]

i agree with you Chris.......it seems we can talk endlessly about all the politics and blaming.....but i agree with every thing Eusibio has said......and i guess we need only honesty in all this crisis situation.....it seems that there is a sweet calmness in all the proposed madness......may be if it is to lead to a day when we both are standing on opposite sides of the trench....and ready to charge at each other.....(let just suppose).....i guess we would be doing that with a little smile of affirmation on our faces...cause this somehow seems to be the only anti sence-perseption reality we can come up with......... (i am not sure if many people will understand what we are saying...but it makes perfect sence to me.....)

[eusebioCBR]

^well spoken;), that part about the trench, very profound

[Chase]

but chase....i think Hizbollah is protecting Lebnon.....and if they need to wear civilian stuff......they will.....and most of the people is hizbolla are actually civilians...ai.e as per my knowledge......tell me....you must be seeing this as disgusting.....but i think its PATRIOTISM......cause Hizbollah is working for the will of the people of lebnon...where as Israel is the occupaying army......although its the main purpose of Israel to week down Hizbollah....by naming it terrorsit....throwing leaflets over the cities saying that Hizbollah is responsible for the people WE killed.........and i guess this pointing of civilian clothes isj ust one of the these tactics.........Israel is in no way welcomed by the people of lebnon......if it wasnt Hizbollah standing in the way....ISrael would have occupied lebnon once again........now u might say that its only due to this resistance that people are dying...then tell me.....which country in the world will let an oppresing army occupy them......its inhumane.......


i was seeing interview of a beruit citizen in news....and he was saying that for most of the civilians of beruit...it was a dream that Israel will send in its ground forces......so that theycan take theri revenge for the crimes of Israel against theri forefathers and their brothers in Palestine...........so that they could feel them in theri range and do what ever they can to get their hands on them......so what civillians you are talking about....might just be some doctors or busnessmen...but know turned fighters

its funny why do people see patriotism as acceptable ony for them selves and not for the others....if two countries are at war.....soldliers shooting and dying are driven by one emotion..... i,e PATRIOTISM.......but fail to see it for the other and reserve the right for it over themselves.......let say if some country invades my country, i am a working accountant....but i will make sure if i have to blow up my self to stop the envading army..i wont think twice....and i am sure CHase..you wont think twice to blow up your self to stop an occupying army , to save your country.....the country you love the most.........but one of the ugly sides of war is that both sides fail to see Patriotism in each ohter eyes....and reserves it only for them selves.....Israel on the other hand has used civilians as humun shield....i saw once on BBC....when Israel put some captured civiilans...locked em up in a container...and lifted the container with the help of giant crane...over above GAZA skyies.....and asked militants to surrender or the people will be killed....s.o what i think is that this is just one of the things to distract the matter from its main purpose.......

i hope you will respond to correct me if i am wrong

Hezbollah is not protecting Lebanon. Hezbollah is making Lebanon a target. Many civilized nations recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group and many nations are currently trying to rid the world of terror. Lebanon has a military... and their purpose is to protect the Lebanese people. But you know what? Syria occupied Lebanon for years... and I don't remember Hezbollah doing a damn thing about protecting the Lebanese people when another Islamic nation was occupying Lebanon and assassinating political leaders. Where was Hezbollah then?
Anti-semitism, to me, isn't patriotic. Nor is exploiting your host nation and its people. It's not just Israel who believes that Hezbollah is a terrorist network. Here is a list of nations who do: The United States, Canada, Israel, the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Australia, and the European Union lists Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer (Imad Mugniyah) as a terrorist. It expresses support and sympathy for the activities of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Islamist groups responsible for suicide attacks and armed resistance in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah will, at least, draw distinctions between which types of terrorist attacks it supports... they're more apt to support terrorism against government and military targets. Nevertheless, in most instances, Hezbollah will have support coming from Al Qaeda.Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's deputy leader, called for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Zionists and join the fighting in Lebanon.
If Hezbollah wasn't in Lebanon... Israel would have no reason to invade. Had Hezbollah NOT kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three... this conflict would not be happening. Provoking Israel, a nation who will ONLY respond to terrorism with military force, is one of the biggest mistakes one can make. Now look at the state of Lebanon following Hezbollah's decision. They continuously put the Lebanese people in the middle of their conflict. They operate from neighborhoods where families live, hospitals, mosques, apartment buildings, and other civilian areas.
You want to know what I think patriotism is? I think patriotism was witnessed during Lebanon's Cedar Revolution, in which the people of Lebanon protested the occupation of Syria following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. That, my friend, is patriotic. Patriotism isn't having some non-uniformed, terrorist group go snatch a couple Israeli soldiers and hold them hostage. Patriotism isn't antagonism. That is clearly the case here. Inappropriate antagonism.

Below are actual photos of Muslims who marched in the streets of London during their recent Religion of Peace Demonstration. This is what's wrong with Islam... the fact that such a worldwide religion has been hijacked by people like this.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0011.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0022.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0033.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0044.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0055.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0066.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0077.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0088.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/xsocialburnx7/image0099.jpg

By the way, I have nothing but respect for you Bilal... as well as Islam and all sane Muslims. I just thought I should make that clear lol.

[bilal]

Hezbollah is not protecting Lebanon. Hezbollah is making Lebanon a target. Many civilized nations recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group and many nations are currently trying to rid the world of terror. Lebanon has a military... and their purpose is to protect the Lebanese people. But you know what? Syria occupied Lebanon for years... and I don't remember Hezbollah doing a damn thing about protecting the Lebanese people when another Islamic nation was occupying Lebanon and assassinating political leaders. Where was Hezbollah then?
Anti-semitism, to me, isn't patriotic. Nor is exploiting your host nation and its people. It's not just Israel who believes that Hezbollah is a terrorist network. Here is a list of nations who do: The United States, Canada, Israel, the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Australia, and the European Union lists Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer (Imad Mugniyah) as a terrorist. It expresses support and sympathy for the activities of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Islamist groups responsible for suicide attacks and armed resistance in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hezbollah will, at least, draw distinctions between which types of terrorist attacks it supports... they're more apt to support terrorism against government and military targets. Nevertheless, in most instances, Hezbollah will have support coming from Al Qaeda.Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's deputy leader, called for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Zionists and join the fighting in Lebanon.
If Hezbollah wasn't in Lebanon... Israel would have no reason to invade. Had Hezbollah NOT kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and killed three... this conflict would not be happening. Provoking Israel, a nation who will ONLY respond to terrorism with military force, is one of the biggest mistakes one can make. Now look at the state of Lebanon following Hezbollah's decision. They continuously put the Lebanese people in the middle of their conflict. They operate from neighborhoods where families live, hospitals, mosques, apartment buildings, and other civilian areas.
You want to know what I think patriotism is? I think patriotism was witnessed during Lebanon's Cedar Revolution, in which the people of Lebanon protested the occupation of Syria following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. That, my friend, is patriotic. Patriotism isn't having some non-uniformed, terrorist group go snatch a couple Israeli soldiers and hold them hostage. Patriotism isn't antagonism. That is clearly the case here. Inappropriate antagonism.

Below are actual photos of Muslims who marched in the streets of London during their recent Religion of Peace Demonstration. This is what's wrong with Islam... the fact that such a worldwide religion has been hijacked by people like this.

By the way, I have nothing but respect for you Bilal... as well as Islam and all sane Muslims. I just thought I should make that clear lol.



Chase....your right......it seems to me that know Hizbollah is capitalising on the situation and is winning the support of not just lebnese people but muslims world over.......but what is making it easy for them is the aggression of Israel's response.....so far 1000 civiialins have been murdered by Israel.......and i think it is only working in favour of Hizbollah.....i never said that i suppoort Hizbollah or any network that have been accused of terrorism...but i was just pointing out that the situations built by Israel and US is never in favour of peace.......it seems that are only adding to the terrorism rather than sincerly trying to get rid of it.......these deaths of civilians wont be forgotten.......

Israel made worth the death of its 2 captured soldiers by destroying a whole city.........killing 1000 civiilans....but still ...no one will question the death of 1000 murdered civilllians but only the 2 soldiers captured...its only because Israel...with its force and support....can show the worth of theri lives....where as no one in the neighbouring country can prove the worth of 1000s of civillians and devestated lives.......it seems to me that only voice heard in the present time is the voice of force ....i wonder if after 100 years.....what the people of that time will think of us......what ever they would think....they will never say that we were CIVILISED...... lol...... cause we still live in time...where might is right......where 2 lives worth more than 1000 cuase one group can prove it with force.........

a bit of HISTORY OF SYRIA and LEBNON


France occupied the area now consisting Syria and lebnon in world war I ( occupy is probably not the right word......i should say won the ground....cause the concept of nation and independence is prety recent one.....i should say that my country PAKISTAN got independence from British rule in 1947...much after world war II.....can u believe it...the worlds most reconginsed democracy was an occupier of a foreing country only50 years back!!!!!......so this concept of national independence and rigts is only a recent one........just we are born in this time, we cannot assume it to be there from the inception.....) so it was under french rule till world war II till france got itself captured by Germany.........british fearing French stronghold over this area......and fearing that it might go deeper into egypt........attacked beriut too.....but could;nt captrue it........at the end of the World war II in 1948....french with drew........from lebnon.....


1948.....same year....when Israel started occupying palestinian territories......hence starting the ever so ugly conflict......lebnon.....presided by a Christian president......was not in fovour and attacked the newly errected jewish county but failed........but lebnon got filled with millions of palestinain refugeess.....


your question of SYrian occupation being Muslim???


i quote it from wikipedia site......that tells that Syria was run by Catholic administration....w.hich was fearing that lebnon might fall in the hands of palestinian domination.....and attaked to save the administartion that was pro israel......so you will see...that Syrian occupation of Lebnon....was not islamic ....but Anti Islamic......influence mostly by Jewish sentiments...

In June, 1976 Syria sent 40,000 troops into Lebanon to prevent the Maronite militias from being overrun by Palestinian Ezzat forces. Together the Syrians and Maronites pushed the Palestinians out of Beirut and into southern Lebanon. Over the next few years, shifting political climates resulted in Syria being allied with the Palestinians and some of the Maronites allied with Israel. Syrian forces remained in Lebanon, effectively dominating its government until 2005.


source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

about the maronites being non-muslims...primarily jews..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite


and i ask you how many times did Israel itself attacked and occupied lebnon...... first in 1978, but was asked to withdraw by United nations security council....... but attacks kept coming from the palestinan forces from lebnon grounds...so Israel again attacked lebnon in 1982 ........sound similar to current crisis too.....anyways.....this secound occupation by ISRAEL was ordered by Areil shron himself........and was a bloody attack that killed 1000s of innocent people.....some i quote

Sabra and Shatila massacre .....in sep 1982 that attacked the Palestinian refugee camps.......it is estimated that upto 3500 palestinian refugess where massacred by the israeli invadors source " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

areil shron is still accused of leding such attack and for the masacres it commited.......still no justice

that led to the formaiton of HIZBOLLAH...in the year 1982.......so your claim of Syrain occupation being Muslim is wrong....infact......you totally ignored the presence of Israel in all the syrian occupations...and latter attacks and time to time Israeli occupations.....not to mention the massacres .........and what really led to the formation of HIZbollah....and many countless factions fighting for the rights.......what made them terrrorist......Israel last withdrew from lebnon onlly in the year 2000.........so lebnon is not a new place for israel........


your picture of Cedar Revolution

i cant really figure out how Cedar Revolution in the year 2005, is in your point patriotic....when it is blamed that mossad was responsible for it.........i quote from wikipedia site

Some suggestions point to Israel's Mossad and/or the USA's CIA involvement, suggesting the aim was to inflame the Syrian-Lebanese situation and to lay the groundwork for the 2006 Israeli invasion by forcing a Syrian withdrawal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon


about some pictures you posted.....its totally out of context........its just again some misconceptions about Islam and labbelliing every islamic leader to be not following the Islam and being at terrorist....as i said before......USA and Israel wont have peace with muslim world by killing each and every one of us who they dont like.....it dont work like that......its a bitter deal.....kill one.....and get 2 for free........i dont totall regect you view of some false leaders portraying islam wrongly to the people....i hope you have watched the movie SYRIANA of george Cloney........i agree wit hte movie........ but these picture are just besided the point.......i dont want to post much pictures in against those you posted

[bilal]

a must see.... the things pointed out by Galloway the Respected MP are quite clear and obvious

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html


Galloway is an ex-Labour Party member, but he teamed up with the Socialist Party after his expulsion from the Labour Party on the charges that he caused a dispute in the party regarding Blair's policy on Iraq in 2003, when he called Blair's government a "lie Machine" and went out and made comments such that the British soldiers should "refuse to obey illegal orders" by the Blair government. [Source: Wikipedia]

[Chase]

Chase....your right......it seems to me that know Hizbollah is capitalising on the situation and is winning the support of not just lebnese people but muslims world over.......but what is making it easy for them is the aggression of Israel's response.....so far 1000 civiialins have been murdered by Israel.......and i think it is only working in favour of Hizbollah.....i never said that i suppoort Hizbollah or any network that have been accused of terrorism...but i was just pointing out that the situations built by Israel and US is never in favour of peace.......it seems that are only adding to the terrorism rather than sincerly trying to get rid of it.......these deaths of civilians wont be forgotten.......

Israel made worth the death of its 2 captured soldiers by destroying a whole city.........killing 1000 civiilans....but still ...no one will question the death of 1000 murdered civilllians but only the 2 soldiers captured...its only because Israel...with its force and support....can show the worth of theri lives....where as no one in the neighbouring country can prove the worth of 1000s of civillians and devestated lives.......it seems to me that only voice heard in the present time is the voice of force ....i wonder if after 100 years.....what the people of that time will think of us......what ever they would think....they will never say that we were CIVILISED...... lol...... cause we still live in time...where might is right......where 2 lives worth more than 1000 cuase one group can prove it with force.........

a bit of HISTORY OF SYRIA and LEBNON


France occupied the area now consisting Syria and lebnon in world war I ( occupy is probably not the right word......i should say won the ground....cause the concept of nation and independence is prety recent one.....i should say that my country PAKISTAN got independence from British rule in 1947...much after world war II.....can u believe it...the worlds most reconginsed democracy was an occupier of a foreing country only50 years back!!!!!......so this concept of national independence and rigts is only a recent one........just we are born in this time, we cannot assume it to be there from the inception.....) so it was under french rule till world war II till france got itself captured by Germany.........british fearing French stronghold over this area......and fearing that it might go deeper into egypt........attacked beriut too.....but could;nt captrue it........at the end of the World war II in 1948....french with drew........from lebnon.....


1948.....same year....when Israel started occupying palestinian territories......hence starting the ever so ugly conflict......lebnon.....presided by a Christian president......was not in fovour and attacked the newly errected jewish county but failed........but lebnon got filled with millions of palestinain refugeess.....


your question of SYrian occupation being Muslim???


i quote it from wikipedia site......that tells that Syria was run by Catholic administration....w.hich was fearing that lebnon might fall in the hands of palestinian domination.....and attaked to save the administartion that was pro israel......so you will see...that Syrian occupation of Lebnon....was not islamic ....but Anti Islamic......influence mostly by Jewish sentiments...




source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

about the maronites being non-muslims...primarily jews..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite


and i ask you how many times did Israel itself attacked and occupied lebnon...... first in 1978, but was asked to withdraw by United nations security council....... but attacks kept coming from the palestinan forces from lebnon grounds...so Israel again attacked lebnon in 1982 ........sound similar to current crisis too.....anyways.....this secound occupation by ISRAEL was ordered by Areil shron himself........and was a bloody attack that killed 1000s of innocent people.....some i quote

Sabra and Shatila massacre .....in sep 1982 that attacked the Palestinian refugee camps.......it is estimated that upto 3500 palestinian refugess where massacred by the israeli invadors source " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

areil shron is still accused of leding such attack and for the masacres it commited.......still no justice

that led to the formaiton of HIZBOLLAH...in the year 1982.......so your claim of Syrain occupation being Muslim is wrong....infact......you totally ignored the presence of Israel in all the syrian occupations...and latter attacks and time to time Israeli occupations.....not to mention the massacres .........and what really led to the formation of HIZbollah....and many countless factions fighting for the rights.......what made them terrrorist......Israel last withdrew from lebnon onlly in the year 2000.........so lebnon is not a new place for israel........


your picture of Cedar Revolution

i cant really figure out how Cedar Revolution in the year 2005, is in your point patriotic....when it is blamed that mossad was responsible for it.........i quote from wikipedia site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon


about some pictures you posted.....its totally out of context........its just again some misconceptions about Islam and labbelliing every islamic leader to be not following the Islam and being at terrorist....as i said before......USA and Israel wont have peace with muslim world by killing each and every one of us who they dont like.....it dont work like that......its a bitter deal.....kill one.....and get 2 for free........i dont totall regect you view of some false leaders portraying islam wrongly to the people....i hope you have watched the movie SYRIANA of george Cloney........i agree wit hte movie........ but these picture are just besided the point.......i dont want to post much pictures in against those you posted

Syria is an Islamic country that occupied another primarily Islamic nation (Lebanon). Where was the Hezbollah saviors when Syria fostered the assassination of a beloved former Lebanese prime minister? I sure as hell didn't see them shooting rockets across the border into Syria. They didn't seem to put up much of a fight. Assad and his father never gave a shit about Lebanon and that's the sad truth.

[bilal]

Chase..i think you are again confusing couple of things together...


source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

It is widely believed that Hafez al-Assad, who was president of Syria from 1971 to 2000, and Hezbollah were closely linked; this did not significantly affect his relations with the rest of the world. Bashar al-Assad, his son and successor, has been subjected to sanctions by the U.S. due to (among other things, such as occupying Lebanon) his continued support for Hezbollah, which it views as a terrorist organization. However, on March 3, 2005, United States President George W. Bush and his administration stated that it would consider Hezbollah legitimate if it disarmed, but also said that this did not represent a change in their view of the organization, which is unlikely to do so.[citation needed]

In an interview on Al-Arabiya TV in Dubai, former Hezbollah Secretary-General Subhi Al-Tufeili said [81] Hezbollah definitely fosters its relations with the Syrians, but Hezbollah's real leadership is 'the rule of the jurisprudence'.

[Chase]

Chase..i think you are again confusing couple of things together...


source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

I never said that they were linked, did I? I merely said that Hezbollah didn't put a fight when Syria occupied Lebanon.