Creed made Stapp?

[RoffeDH]

I was just wondering, if Stapp hadn't been with Creed would he ever have been succesfull, I mean since Marks signature sound is a part of his solocareer too now. Without it would he have been a sucess at all?

Woudl mark have been a sucess without Stapp? I mean, it's his sound, shure Stapp wrote alot of the songs (most of them on MOP and HC atleast), couldn't Mark have made it with another singer? Or would he just have been a metal head and not at all able to be mainstream?

[titan9]

Well, it's really debatable. But I personally don't think either could have made it without the other one. If Creed had Myles as their lead singer and not Stapp, I don't think Creed would have been as big as they were, simply because Stapp's vocals are more radio friendly. And if Creed didn't have Mark's catchy riffs, who's to say Stapp's vocals and lyrics would have been enough to win over fans?

I think what's telling is what is happening post-Creed. Alter Bridge isn't that well known at this point. If you ask a mainstream music fan who they are, they won't know. Whereas if you had asked about Creed during their heyday, said mainstream music fan would have known exactly who you were talking about.

Stapp is a bit more known, at this point, than AB is....simply because he was the frontman for Creed and has gotten some, well, not so nice publicity over the last few months. Still, the vast majority of mainstream music fans have forgotten about Stapp, as evidenced by the fact that TGD hasn't sold a million records yet and isn't close to that mark yet.

Bottom line is this: Creed was something special. I've heard people on here remark that Creed was like "lightning caught in a bottle". I'd have to agree with that. Bands like Creed don't come along all that often...and I don't think you can attribute their success to any one member. But I do think you can say that every band member, from Flip to Brian to Mark to Scott, played a role in the massive success of the band.

[eusebioCBR]

I've thought about this and I would say no. It would be hard to manufacture a true ROCK super group. I mean right place, right time and right combination that just takes off like a widfire. There's just an element of raw emotion that the true rock fan appreciates. They'll probably do ok seperately, but I don't believe they'll ever see the level of success they had in CREED. What are the odds of having that perfect combination and it's frustrating to see that thrown away. Billy Corgan thought he could do it on his own and now he's desperately trying to gather the Pumpkins for another Smashing album. If lightning strikes twice for AB or Scott I will be pleasantly surprised.:thud:

[bilal]

yeh .......... creed was special............and although ......Marks riffs where a solid foundation................. stapp had a dominating position all thorough out......... imean only those guys interested in guitars and those who undersatnd music would have admired tremonti....otherwise i think it was 90% stapp.........but i guess Mark is resoponsible for that too....cause some how he was glad to be on the back seat...........even in all Creed videos.....its just stappp ..........take for example bullets video........but yeh.........stapp could have never made it without MArt........no .........no.............and no.......


i will disagree with u about ur thoughts on Alter Bridge............. AB might not have that catchy sound of creed .......... but AB to me is far more Valuable then all of creeeds work...........cause its not just about riffs............its about total guitaring experience............. amazing amazing guitar solos..............and i think MYles is absolutely great ................... MYles voice might not be as ..........what shud i say.......... complete as that of STapps.............but Myles is a much better singer .........or a better rock singer.................

but yes..............Creed was an entity of its own............and Stapp and Mark cudnt have done without each other.....................(hey dont forget Flips and brian............)

[Creed7352]

well, i know i started listening to creed cause of mark...cause i play guitar.

[Ana4Stapp]

Well, it's really debatable. But I personally don't think either could have made it without the other one. If Creed had Myles as their lead singer and not Stapp, I don't think Creed would have been as big as they were, simply because Stapp's vocals are more radio friendly. And if Creed didn't have Mark's catchy riffs, who's to say Stapp's vocals and lyrics would have been enough to win over fans?


Bottom line is this: Creed was something special. I've heard people on here remark that Creed was like "lightning caught in a bottle". I'd have to agree with that. Bands like Creed don't come along all that often...and I don't think you can attribute their success to any one member. But I do think you can say that every band member, from Flip to Brian to Mark to Scott, played a role in the massive success of the band.

Exactly! Creed was a combination of the right people in the right place at the right time...;)

[titan9]

well, i know i started listening to creed cause of mark...cause i play guitar.

For me personally, the whole band brought me in. The vocals, the lyrics, the riffs, all of it made me a fan. I can say that Tremo has inspired me to be a guitarist....just as Stapp and Bono have inspired me to be a lyricist.

Exactly! Creed was a combination of the right people in the right place at the right time...

Yup. But I do think that if they were no-talent hacks and weren't any good....they wouldn't have been famous. Well...unless they were a boy band playing cruddy pop music...or Nickelback....then I guess talent doesn't really matter. :laugh:

[Ana4Stapp]

For me personally, the whole band brought me in. The vocals, the lyrics, the riffs, all of it made me a fan. I can say that Tremo has inspired me to be a guitarist....just as Stapp and Bono have inspired me to be a lyricist.



Yup. But I do think that if they were no-talent hacks and weren't any good....they wouldn't have been famous. Well...unless they were a boy band playing cruddy pop music...or Nickelback....then I guess talent doesn't really matter. :laugh:

No...no...titan...of course they had talent ...actually I deleted the word talent...not sure why...lol

[Agent D]

Bottom line is this: Creed was something special. I've heard people on here remark that Creed was like "lightning caught in a bottle". I'd have to agree with that. Bands like Creed don't come along all that often...and I don't think you can attribute their success to any one member. But I do think you can say that every band member, from Flip to Brian to Mark to Scott, played a role in the massive success of the band.

Exactly, couldn't have said it any better myself. Say what you will about whichever member of Creed or regardless if you prefer Alter Bridge, Creed would not have been Creed without Stapp or Tremo, or even Flip or Brian.

[RoffeDH]

I must agree... I belive that Mark could have had some sucess without Stapp or the otherguys, but never as big, Stapp I belive would have had less sucsess, seeing how he steals Marks signature sound and all o his solo album. But without eachother it would never have been as big as it were.

[creedlvr]

Let me start by saying that I don't want to offend the Flip and Brian fans.

However, I think that it's true that Creed would not have been as successful without both Scott and Mark. Together, they made great music. I don't agree that anyone is "stealing" anyone else's sound. The music they created was a collaboration ... not Mark's sound and Scott's lyrics. I believe they worked together on developing a sound they were both happy with ... and as it turns out ... so were the fans.

As for Flip and Brian ...
I'm not minimizing their skills as bassist or drummer, but I think that the sound that Scott and Mark developed would have been just as successful if they had other people in those roles.

Not right or wrong ... just my opinion.

[Creed7352]

once brian left, it just wasn't the same for me...brett was good on bass, but it just wasn't creed to me. so brian needed to be there too, and flip.

[MissSeeker]

Let me start by saying that I don't want to offend the Flip and Brian fans.

However, I think that it's true that Creed would not have been as successful without both Scott and Mark. Together, they made great music. I don't agree that anyone is "stealing" anyone else's sound. The music they created was a collaboration ... not Mark's sound and Scott's lyrics. I believe they worked together on developing a sound they were both happy with ... and as it turns out ... so were the fans.

As for Flip and Brian ...
I'm not minimizing their skills as bassist or drummer, but I think that the sound that Scott and Mark developed would have been just as successful if they had other people in those roles.

Not right or wrong ... just my opinion.

I agree...

[guitardude1985]

once brian left, it just wasn't the same for me...brett was good on bass, but it just wasn't creed to me. so brian needed to be there too, and flip.

When brian left, creed to me were a incomplete band.

[guitardude1985]

once brian left, it just wasn't the same for me...brett was good on bass, but it just wasn't creed to me. so brian needed to be there too, and flip.

When brian left, creed to me were a incomplete band.

[RoffeDH]

I think that the only thing that Scott "healped" Mark with on the sound is to bring the bas up a bit on the guitar and down with tremble... But other then that Scott knows shit in my opinion.

As for Flip and Brian, I think that Mark did a very poor job on Weatherd and therefor the bas didn't get that much atention... Brian not being in the band... Didn't like that, didn't feel right, but had brian been someone else that person would probobly had been missed, I think Brian have to have a more signature sound to him, do some slapping and stuff, perhaps do some intros, take some space for crying out loud! Flip, he's a good drummer (I think) I'm no drummer myself but I belive he's good, nothing original though and that's a bit sad... But it might be hard on drums, I have no idea...

So conclution: Stapp and Mark would have made it on their own probobly but was better of togeather (we think), they would, with the highest posibillity have made it without Flip and Brian (no mater how much I like them, that's probobly the trouth). Any objektions?

[stappfan]

Without question, Stapp made Creed.

[metalchris25]

I think that Mark would have always been successful. You don't make a guitar sing like that and not make it big. If it were not for him, I don't know if I would have ever picked up a guitar.

I think that Scott, too, would have made it because of the originality of his voice. I know a lot of people say he sounds like Vedder, but I don't see it.

[Creed7352]

never quoted on this before and i have no idea why, but i am now...lol

Whereas if you had asked about Creed during their heyday, said mainstream music fan would have known exactly who you were talking about.

the thing with that is that you're basically saying that ab is in their hey day now and they're not recognized. i don't think ab has hit their hey day yet...so i think you'd have to wait till they do to pass that judgement.

[titan9]

It's been nearly 5 months, but let me clarify what I think I meant. Creed's debut album was a big hit. They had four number one singles and sold millions of copies of MOP. Let's compare that to AB and Stapp. AB's debut: around 800K sold(estimate on my part). Stapp's debut: 500-800K sold(not sure about this?). AB's radio success: OYE was a top 20 rock radio hit, but none of the other singles got that big. Stapp's singles: TGD was also a top 20 rock radio hit, but he just officially released his second single, so it's a bit hard to tell how his next singles will do. Overall popularity: as far as I can tell, not that many people know about Stapp/AB, even rock radio fans. Back in '97/'98, practically every rock radio fan knew about Creed.

[LeftOfTheMurder]

Call me crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Alter Bridge's second album is going to be very, very big and make them known to every mainstream rock radio fan. Anyone else think so?

I think lightning will strike twice for Mark Tremonti. He's a very hard working, talented musician - I don't know who deserves it more than him.

[eusebioCBR]

Call me crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Alter Bridge's second album is going to be very, very big and make them known to every mainstream rock radio fan. Anyone else think so?

I think lightning will strike twice for Mark Tremonti. He's a very hard working, talented musician - I don't know who deserves it more than him.

I'm going to agree with you. I know AB and Stapp were not major hits(CREED - MOP), but at this point it seems AB has had and is having a more solid tour.

An opening act on the casino circuit for a band that peaked when I was the 8th grade(I'm 33 now)............. I'm not bashing, I'm just............what ever.

[titan9]

Stapp obviously could have done better than tour with INXS. But I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Plenty of artists/bands open for lesser known artists/bands on smaller scale tours. Stapp did the whole solo headliner intimate venue thing and had a good deal of success with that. I'm thinking that as he gets more established as a solo artist, he'll have even more success touring solo.

Honestly, I think both second albums(from Stapp and AB) will do much, much better. Both Stapp and AB are bound to get more airplay which, of course, usually translates to more record sales and more success. Stapp will probably do best on pop radio(and it pains me to say that....but I don't know if rock stations will be willing to play Stapp...they didn't play much Creed after the ultra-commercial album that was Weathered) and AB will probably do best on rock radio. Ideally, though, I'd like to see them both get rock radio airplay.

[metalchris25]

I think that AB will do VERY well with the new one. I am not so sure about Scott, I am pained to say.

[Dogstar]

Call me crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Alter Bridge's second album is going to be very, very big and make them known to every mainstream rock radio fan. Anyone else think so?

I think lightning will strike twice for Mark Tremonti. He's a very hard working, talented musician - I don't know who deserves it more than him.
I hope you're right. They have to find a label willing to let go of the Creed sound. I liked ODR, and I know some of those songs on it likely would have ended up on a fourth Creed album, but some of the songs were too Creed-sounding. I just hope they find a label that will let them develop their sound, not some uninspired sound some executive wants to shove down our throats.

[Creed7352]

^^^ yes...i agree with dogstar here on the execs thing.

and i agree that ab's second album will be much better..and rightfully so with myles and the others pulling more into the band and writing and songs etc..also, WU only gave the guys 2 singles off of ODR and we all know there should've been more (like when tons of people wanted metalingus for a single, it was/is used as an entrance song for a wrestler - giving it more exposure - and there were quite a few stations that picked it up anyway and played it..and it was never a single..wtf was WU thinking?)...you get my rant here hehe, do i need to continue?

[RelearningLove]

As far as I'm concerned...it doesn't really matter. lol It happened and who will ever know if Mark or Scott would have made it without each other.

[George Brasil]

A good question, but a senseless question!
I think that Scott would not be without Mark, and CREED/Mark it would not be without Scott!

[staghorn]

DUDE! You are so wrong man! Scott STAPP is what made creed. His voice is freakin phenomenal! No one has a powerful strong voice like him. That is what made them successful! Have you ever seen them in concert? if not then you shouldnt even comment! Plus scott wrote most of the lyrics and tunes anyway !

[J.T.]

Dude...no, dude...Stapp made Creed more than Creed made Stapp. He didnt completely make Creed but he was the dominating factor. Just look at Alter Bridge. You take out Stapp and put a new guy in, and the sales go down like crazy. (Nothin against AB, I like em.) Stapp all the way. His new solo album did better than AB's album. and dont question me because it did.

[revisfoot]

Honestly, had Creed put out a fourth record, it wouldn't have sold much anyways, because by 2005, that wasn't the "in" sound anymore. Now, it's the indie thing. I just think Creed were going down-hill from Weathered. It was over. There was nothing they could do to fix it, either (well, they could have put out a Taking Back Sunday-style record, but...). I mean, Stapp held on to the Creed sound, and it didn't get much play. Alter Bridge didn't make it either. However, if AB can go more Sevendust-style on this next record, they'll save face. But, Stapp, he's done.

[J.T.]

Uh....no hes not...his record did better than AB's. Shutup and dont say things you know nothing about. Hes far from done.

[titan9]

Honestly, I disagree about the fourth Creed album. Nickelback has had the same sound for 5+ years now and they're still huge on pop radio. What makes Creed different?

Regarding Stapp's career being dead: it depends on what he does with the new album and how willing people are to give him a chance. I believe he still has it in him to be a popular solo artist, but it all depends on radio play.

[eusebioCBR]

Scott has done too much damage to his own reputation.

[J-Man]

May I remind you JT that Stapp couldn't sell concert tickets when he went on his own. The tickets were given out for free, and worse they were just sitting outside the concert door entrance for anyone who wanted them. So do I think Stapp's career took a tumble? Absolutely.

[J.T.]

Still did better than AB.

[J-Man]

No doubt about it, you are definitely a Stapp fan and it shows.

[Robin101]

Is this what happens when Stapp doesn't do something controversial for awhile? We have to revisit old threads? :D

Creed made Stapp...Stapp made Creed. I don't think there's any concrete evidence to support either view. Stapp was the principal songwriter and had one of the most established voices in the business. The Great Divide, however, was proof that he's not quite as effective without Tremonti (and vice-versa). Gone Blind are a very talented band but are Rincon, Curry, Burman and Archer as talented as Tremonti, Marshall and Phillips? I don't think so. In my opinion, Stapp's contributions were the difference between Creed being just another fish in an overcrowded pond and, inevitably, becoming the biggest.

A fourth Creed album would have debuted at #1 and been a huge hit. Weathered went straght to #1 and remained there for eight weeks - a record they share with The Beatles. Not bad for a band on the decline!

Stapp's well documented private life and general mixed reviews of his album were the major reasons behind the rather indifferent start to his solo career. The album, although a solid, if unspectacular effort, seemed lacking in inspiration and, at times, rushed. It was almost as if he was competing with someone...

An inspired Stapp will deliver an outstanding second album. A problem-free Stapp will shift millions of albums and (re)gain the respect of the music industry.

[J.T.]

Yeah, I am a Stapp fan. But I shouldnt have been such a jerk about it. sorry. I just get going when I'm arguing with someone.

[titan9]

Scott has done too much damage to his own reputation.

So have lots of other artists. I think people just clamp down on Scott too tight because of his Christian beliefs. And I think if the radio and other people were willing to give the solo stuff a shot, Scott would do a lot better.

[J.T.]

Yeah I hate that. Plenty of other artists do retarded things. But they have a huge thing against Scott because hes a christian. Ugh. X|

[eusebioCBR]

So have lots of other artists. I think people just clamp down on Scott too tight because of his Christian beliefs. And I think if the radio and other people were willing to give the solo stuff a shot, Scott would do a lot better.

Oh, it's everybody else. When will I learn?:rolleyes:

[titan9]

Oh, I won't deny that Scott has done a lot of stupid things. But so has Scott Weiland and many other "rockstars". And yet they're still given more chances. That's my point. I think people have a double-standard.

[eusebioCBR]

I would say it's a hunger for,"the mighty has fallen". when anybody's rise to fame is so fast and towering there will always be somebody there to take joy when they stumble. It's unfortunate but Scott has given the negative people plenty to work with.

[titan9]

Yeah, that's true. But like I said, I don't think his career is over yet. Or at least I hope it's not. I still feel like he has something good to contribute to the music world.

[Stappishot]

U know, I could never understand either why scott is not liked by many, that was always a mystery to me :confused:

[Robin101]

U know, I could never understand either why scott is not liked by many, that was always a mystery to me :confused:


Stapp was a victim of his own success. When you're at the top people want to see you fall. Sometimes, even the people who helped to make you like to break you. Creed didn't need anyone to help them make it - not MTV, not an established record label...no-one.

Creed went from nothing to become the biggest band in America in record breaking time. That's a big no-no.

Bands start smiling at you through their teeth - probably while wearing a green t-shirt with ENVY printed on it. Look at the guys who publicly ridiculed Creed. Fred Durst and Dave Grohl (Stapp has a superior voice than both of them). Didn't a guy from Blink 182 (what nonsense) even wear a t-shirt that read 'Even Jesus Hates Creed'? This animosity then filters down to their naive fans and the 'snowball effect' begins - one band says something, then another and so on...

Stapp was the face of Creed and so he felt the full force of their hate. People would criticise his voice, his lyrics, his on-stage postures...everything. Stapp became paranoid and defended himself accordingly.

I'm not saying Stapp is innocent - far from it. But I'm struggling to think of something he did (during his Creed days) that gave others due reason to treat him with such contempt. Others have done things far worse and been given numerous chances to redeem themselves.

Critics of Stapp could say his actions are a contradiction to his lyrics but Stapp rarely commented on his lyrics and the meaning of his songs.

Whatever Stapp has done in the recent past, the critical disdain directed towards him was born out of one thing - jealousy.

[johellion]

Creed was at the time, a good combination, and there was a need for a change in music. The music scene at the time was boy bands. The guys were playing the college music scene, and got a great fan following in Tallahassee. We use to just take weekends, and go hear them play at Floyds, and other clubs. We would stay at Brian's, or get a room(Brian had about 4 roommates one being Stapp). I would have to say Creed made Stapp..., but Stapp let it all go to his head, and problems started happening during Human Clay. When Brian left, I knew the band was at it's demise. Weathered was just not a strong album. It sold good, but it was different.

As for AB, they are great!!! Can't wait for the new music!! AB 's OYE went to #2, and stayed in the top 20 for awhile. There album did sale more than Stapp's.

Stapp's didn't do as well...don't know why. I do know he has his fans, but he really burnt his britches in the music industry. Wind-up really played him up in the beginning, he was their golden boy, and when sales and concerts didn't go the way they thought..they stopped pushing his stuff. Just like AB...wind-up was not advertising, and pushing his stuff. AB dropped them, and another record company is snatching them up. As far as Myles's and Scotts voices are concerned.....Scott is strictly a baritone and Myles voice is tenor, and has a wide range...He can sing low, as well as high ranges. Scott has problems hitting high notes, and over the years messed his voice up by not having the proper vocal training. He got training later, but some of the damage was already done.

Creed was a once in a lifetime band.....Stapp or Alterbridge may(but you never know) never be as big as before, but they will still make good music, and now they can all do what they want with their music. Mark can shread!!!! and rock, Brian can play his bass, Flip can tear the drums up and Myles can belt out the tunes!!! Stapp can continue to sing his ballads, and write good lyric.....They will all survive!!!! I have a feeling we will hear their music for many years to come....:D

[J.T.]

Okay everyone, Scott Stapps solo album "The Great Divide" sold more than Alter Bridges album "One Day Remains." If you do not believe me, look it up on RIAA.

[Dogstar]

Is it actual sales, or units shipped? That's a big difference. I remember when the Sam Goody near me was closing and there had to be 30 copies of his album still on the shelf despite the sale price.

[J.T.]

I'm pretty sure its sales. But anyway he didnt sell less than Alter Bridge because they both went gold, and then Stapp went platinum Im 99% sure.

[eusebioCBR]

I'm not trying to fan the flames of "tit for tat", but I think Scott's shipped platinum. If you add how weak his US solo tour was and take into consideration having to cancel Europe. It just doesn't seem to equal platinum sales:confused:

[HeavensOnFire]

I'm not trying to fan the flames of "tit for tat", but I think Scott's shipped platinum. If you add how weak his US solo tour was and take into consideration having to cancel Europe. It just doesn't seem to equal platinum sales:confused:
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, :roll: i know its a mircale, u hit me funny BUT DAMN IT WE GOT PLATINUM ANYWAY, freaking mircale, WE GOT THE GREAT DIVIDE !!!!!!! BUT OH WE GOT IT, The Great Divide, !!! THE, Great Divide,

[johellion]

I'm pretty sure its sales. But anyway he didnt sell less than Alter Bridge because they both went gold, and then Stapp went platinum Im 99% sure.

NO....they shipped platinum....did not go platinum.....

[J.T.]

Whatever, Alter Bridge didnt do any better though. He at least went gold.

[titan9]

Johellion is correct. TGD hasn't sold platinum--at least not that we know of. It has shipped platinum. ODR shipped gold and sold gold. I'm not sure how much TGD sold, but I'd assume it is at least gold.

[creed forever]

The Great Divide has around 400,000 copies sold,One Day Remains around 320,000...soundscan numbers