Stapp Confesses

[Vliegs]

Article from Rollingstone.com today. Maybe this marriage to his new lady is doing some good after all. :eek:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/9139515?rnd=1137089669437&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1212

The day Scott Stapp decided to kill himself, his band, Creed, was the most popular rock act in the country. It was 2003. The group's third album, Weathered, had just been certified six-times platinum, making it the best-selling rock album of the past year. Stapp himself, though, had become the most hated man in rock. Long-ridiculed in the press for his Christian-tinged lyrics and Messianic stage persona, Stapp had also alienated his bandmates with increasingly erratic behavior. The Weathered tour had ended with a disastrous concert in Chicago, during which Stapp had been visibly intoxicated, at one point lying on his back in the middle of a song. Stapp admits now, "I don't even recall doing that show." After the tour, Stapp was dropped off at home in Orlando, Florida, where he lived in a plush gated community. "I was insane," Stapp says. "You saw Ray? I was shivering. All this stuff was coming out of my body."

While on tour, he'd been drinking heavily and had become addicted to Percocet. He'd also been taking Xanax and large doses of the anti-inflammatory steroid prednisone for throat problems. Once home, he quit all drugs, cold turkey. At which point, he says, "I wanted to end my life."

But he didn't stop drinking. One evening, after polishing off a bottle of Jack Daniel's, he removed two firearms from his collection. "An MP5 SD3 and an MP5 K," he says. "Machine guns. They're what SWAT teams use." Since the Chicago show, he hadn't spoken to anyone from Creed. He'd become convinced that everyone involved with the band wanted him to die, so that he would become a "Kurt Cobain martyr-type" and boost record sales. "I had crazy thoughts going through my head," he says.

Before he pulled the trigger, he looked up and saw a picture of his son, Jagger, the product of a troubled marriage. Jagger, then four, was staying with Stapp's mother at the time. "And in an instant," he says, "I just turned and shot the house up. And I just broke down. I was like, 'I was about to blow my head off. How low can I get?'"

Even this wake-up call turned out to be short-lived. In the ensuing months, Stapp would flee to Maui, where he became addicted to OxyContin. By the middle of 2004, Creed broke up. Stapp cleaned up long enough to get engaged and record his solo debut, The Great Divide. But last fall, when it came time to promote the album, he began to self-destruct all over again.

On Thanksgiving Day, after announcing his engagement to his fiancee's family, he got into a fistfight with members of the band 311 at a hotel bar in Baltimore. According to 311's frontman SA Martinez, Stapp was doing shots, being "loud and obnoxious" and made "a disrespectful comment to my wife that I'd rather not repeat." When drummer Chad Sexton asked Stapp to settle down, the members of 311 claim Stapp sucker-punched him and, in the follow-through, struck Martinez's wife. (Stapp denies starting the fight.)

A few days later, Stapp taped an episode of Casino Cinema, a celebrity poker show on the cable channel Spike TV. He was obviously intoxicated. During the episode, Stapp slurs his words, curses incessantly, claims Dave Grohl has "a little cock," demonstrates a bizarre series of kung-fu moves and demands a kiss from co-host Beth Ostrosky (Howard Stern's girlfriend), later telling her, "My son thinks babies come from my sac" and "I make more money than Howard."

After watching the show, Stapp entered rehab. Now, a few days after Christmas, Stapp, 32, is back in Baltimore, sitting in the finished basement of his fiancee's parents' suburban home. The basement, Stapp's future-brother-in-law's bedroom, is carpeted; a phalanx of ceramic Santas line the top of a big-screen TV. Stapp has dimmed all of the lights except for a silver lamp, and now he sits in the near-darkness, perched on the edge of a couch.

He's dressed casually, in faded jeans and a tight black jersey, with a white knit Chicago Bulls cap pulled low on his forehead, his long hair tufting out to his shoulders. His mother-in-law-to-be brings us sandwiches and homemade brownies on a tray. There's also a leatherbound Bible on the coffee table, with Stapp's name etched on the cover. He takes two heaping scoops of sugar in his coffee, his hand shaking as he works the spoon. His eyes, large and sad even when he's making a joke, begin to well up. He cocks his head and stares harder at me, ignoring the tears in a way that makes them more awkward. Eventually, his voice cracking, he says, "Before all of this happened, I think the last time I cried was 1991, when my grandfather died."

A few minutes later, he adds, "It's weird. You can sell millions of records, be showered with all this love and admiration and still feel despised and unwanted. That's what I felt. I've made a lot of mistakes I'm not proud of. These aren't tears of sadness. I'm happy to get this out."

***

Since 1997, Creed have sold 25 million records in the U.S. alone. The group's sound -- post-Pearl Jam arena-grunge -- may have been generic, but Stapp, as a frontman, stood out, though not always to the band's benefit. Irony-deficient, Jesus-haired and often shirtless in a way that reminded people of the guy from Lord of the Dance, Stapp came off as arrogant in interviews and preening onstage, and his lyrics, while inspirational to legions of fans, sounded like embarrassingly sincere Christian rock to the unconverted.

The band formed in 1995. Stapp had been raised in a strict Pentecostal family in Florida and was forbidden to listen to rock music. After leaving home at seventeen, he began drinking and using drugs, and became obsessed with the Doors. In Tallahassee, he reconnected with a high school acquaintance named Mark Tremonti, who turned out to be a guitar player in search of a singer. They recorded their debut, 1997's My Own Prison, for less than $6,000; it became the first debut album in history to produce four Number One rock songs.

But by the time of the follow-up, 1999's Human Clay, Stapp's personal life had grown increasingly hectic. He'd married his first wife, Hillaree, six months after they met; they divorced fifteen months later, but not before having a son. Since the divorce, he has retained sole custody of Jagger. One of the last times they saw each other, in 2002, she was arrested for hitting Stapp in the face with a cell phone.

According to Stapp, the nasty breakup, the responsibility of single-fatherhood and the success of the band soon proved overwhelming. He began drinking heavily and taking prescription pills. Attempts to get clean -- including a celebrity detox program at a luxury hotel in Hollywood -- didn't last. "There are a few people who get so crazy when they party, they have a nickname for their alter ego," says Tremonti, 31. "With Scott, it was Rick. I don't know where the name came from. But it would be like, 'Uh-oh. Here comes Rick.'"

"Basically, Scott was a cool, normal guy," says former Creed sound engineer Kirk Kelsey. "But fame caused the biggest destruction of his personality. The more power he got, the more corrupted he became."

Stapp's ego raged out of control. After shows, he'd ensconce himself in the corner of crowded college-town bars, ordering his bodyguards to bring over girls and keep everyone else away. He constantly threatened to quit the band, saying things like, "I'm going into acting or politics. This is just a hobby." A jock in high school, he bragged about the number of fights he'd been in and drunkenly challenged people to trade punches. "Scott's a time bomb every time he walks out the door," says a source who worked for the band. One night, after Kelsey critiqued Stapp's vocal performance, Stapp playfully tapped the soundman on the cheek a couple of times, then suddenly gave him a real slap. He walked away before a stunned Kelsey could react, later bragging that he had "bitch-slapped" the much bigger man.

[Vliegs]

"It's funny," says Tremonti, "how many people come out of the woodwork after a relationship is severed and say how much they hated your singer. Every band that ever opened for us pretty much said, 'Yeah, that tour was great, we loved opening for you guys, but Scott never even looked at us.' The Mayfield Four opened for us on one tour. I was talking to their bass player after a show and Scott came over and asked him to get him a Coke. He thought he was catering."

By this point, the band was more popular -- and more of a target -- than ever. Rock stars who had themselves been the objects of derision were delighted by the appearance of a singer more hated than them, and quickly, somewhat pathetically, piled on: Fred Durst taunted Stapp at a 2000 concert and Dexter Holland of the Offspring began wearing an EVEN JESUS HATES CREED T-shirt.

"That drove them all insane," says Kelsey. "They really, really hated the fact that they were doing something they genuinely loved, yet they caught so much shit for it."

"I'd always said, 'I'm not going to be one of those arrogant, asshole lead-singer guys,'" says Stapp. "But I really let that media stuff affect me. I developed a bitterness, and then I would walk into interviews with a chip on my shoulder. And I started drinking like I never drank before. I might have come across as holier-than-thou, but I was really just a messed-up kid looking for answers who fell back on his faith. It all hurt me, though. I felt like I was the reason these guys' dream wasn't happening. I think their rock & roll dream got screwed over by my lyrics."

Things only got worse when it came time to tour for Weathered. Kelsey, who co-produced the album, says, "We'd have shows scheduled, and then suddenly we'd have a couple of weeks off instead. It was a get-Scott's-act-together kind of thing. I assume he was getting de-stressed-out."

Stapp insists his health problems were very real. When the tour finally resumed, he says he contracted pneumonia and had developed nodules on his vocal cords that could have ended his career. "I showed the band documented medical reports," Stapp says. "But they were being told other things by management, I think, to keep pressure on me to tour. Someone actually stood up at a meeting -- I'm not going to say who -- and said, 'I don't care. I've got an effing house and wedding to pay for.'"

Stapp was having anxiety attacks and had become increasingly isolated. He also alleges shady "rock doctors" were brought on the scene, improperly prescribing meds to keep the tour going. "According to three doctors I've seen since then," says Stapp, "I shouldn't be alive."

Things came to a head at the infamous Chicago show. Says Tremonti, "Fifteen minutes before we went onstage, I saw Scott, staggering, slurring his words. I looked behind him, and there's a bottle of Jack Daniel's, half-drunk. I didn't even look at him again until we were onstage, because I wanted to wring his neck. He got all the words wrong and walked offstage after five songs. I had to get on the mike and say, 'Sorry, I'll be right back.' Backstage, Scott is laying on the couch with his eyes closed. I said, 'What the hell are you doing?' He was like, 'Oh, I'm sorry, dude. I thought the show was over.'"

Upon returning to the stage, Stapp removed his shirt and shoes (but not his socks) and lay on his back. Says Kelsey, "At one point, he was walking backwards while singing and fell over a monitor. You could see his socks flapping in the air."

"He was singing the words of 'Arms Wide Open' to 'Higher,' and the words of 'Higher' to 'Arms Wide Open' -- two of our biggest songs!" says Tremonti. "I don't blame the crowd for being pissed. That was the most embarrassing hour-and-a-half of my life."

"My problems were not what ended Creed," Stapp insists. "Creed was ended by egos and people wanting to do their own thing and poor decision-making. You have family members whispering in people's ears, saying, 'You're not getting enough credit.' In every interview I did, I'd say, 'This is easy to do when you're playing with the best guitar player in the world.' I meant it. And I still think he's a genius. But Mark was never happy. He wanted to do his own thing."

Tremonti, who formed a new band, Alter Bridge, with the other members of Creed, says, "The only reason to do a fourth album would have been to be greedy. We got into this to make music we were proud of, not to be the laughingstock of the entire industry because of our singer. We wanted to help the guy. But we'd been through that game so many times; eventually, you know, you're not your brother's keeper. We had a hundred people in that organization that relied on us. After a while, it's like, 'Are we going to live our lives like this for one person?' Then you decide, 'OK, I'll remove the cancer.'"

After the band's collapse, Stapp checked himself into a rapid-detox facility near Laguna Beach, California, for an expensive, controversial procedure in which all opiates are supposedly drained from the patient's body within twenty-four hours. In 2004, he moved to a waterfront mansion in Miami Beach. "Essentially, I was retired," he says. "I'd fired anyone who was involved with Creed. I didn't want anything to do with the music business. The entire press and industry hated me, so what was the point?" Instead, Stapp coached his son's football team, read film scripts and, while hailing a cab in Manhattan, met his fiancee, Jaclyn Nesheiwat, a pretty Jordanian-American who was Miss New York in 2004.

He also managed to stay sober for a record seven months -- until he returned to the studio. Ironically, it was to record a song for a compilation inspired by The Passion of the Christ. "Demons reared their heads, in terms of partying," he says. "I didn't have any boundaries."

Today, the sober Stapp is friendly and humble. "I think everything worked out the way it was supposed to. Mark's happier. I'm sober. There are still phone calls to be made, people I need to say something to. But everyone from Creed who I've offended or hurt, I ask for their forgiveness."

After his wedding in February, Stapp will launch his first dry tour. (A sobriety coach will travel with him.) Though The Great Divide debuted at Number Nineteen, selling only 315,000 copies so far, Stapp says the album is doing great considering there has been very little promotion. He also says he could foresee a Creed reunion someday. Tremonti says fans shouldn't hold their breath. "I haven't listened to a Creed song in years," he confesses. "I can't stand it. I wouldn't want to play those songs again. It was a complete nightmare. When people from that era get together, it's like a convention of people who went through Nam."

Responds Stapp, "If he served, I served too. No one wins in a war."

the whoel thing was too long for one post.

[titan9]

After having read the entire thing, all I've got to say is wow. Our suspicions(regarding alcohol and drug use) were, in fact, true. It is very sad and unfortunate that all of this had to happen in the first place. Stapp made some huge mistakes, but those doctors and other people(not in the band, but who were around the band).....how could they let Stapp self-destruct and drink like that? He's an adult, yes, but if you see someone acting like that...how can you not speak up and do something about it? Right when all of this started happening(in '99, I guess), management SHOULD have sent Stapp to rehab. They shouldn't have let this escalate like it did.

It is good to know that Stapp is finally sane enough that he got help for his problems(by going to rehab again). What should be real telling, though, is whether his new found sobriety lasts while he embarks on this upcoming tour. He definitely needs someone(besides his fiance) to keep him in check, so it is good to know that he's got this sobriety coach to help him. I will say this: it takes guts to come out in an interview and lay it all out like that. To be brutally honest and admit to all of the drugs he has taken, all of the drinking he has done, that takes courage. My only wish is that he would have admitted all this stuff a whole lot sooner, as I think it did him no good to wait so long to let it all out.

[Chase]

I agree with you, Titan. My first reaction was "wow." You know... I congratulate Stapp on a few things. He came clean... to the world. That has to be one of the hardest things for a person to do... let alone to his loved ones. Also, for him to keep a person on tour with him that will keep him in check shows that he is definately making attempts to change his lifestyle. I'm actually surprised that Rolling Stone, a once big critic of Creed... is actually publishing an article that is somewhat sympathetic to Scott.

Stapp made his own decisions to live a destructive life... but you have to realize that the people he called his "friends" didn't support him like they should. Substance abuse is serious, and having support is crucial. His management didn't do anything, nor did Wind Up or the rest of Creed. I believe that there was selfishness all around. It's sad. But this article was awesome and it gives Stapp some hope... some positive hope.

[Dogstar]

I think it's unfair to blame the rest of Creed for his drug abuse and for their supposedly not doing anything to help him. No one can really help anyone unless that person wants to help himself, no matter how much you love them or how much you think you can do. That's why they have groups like Al-Anon. It's extremely difficult and heartbreaking to cope with and live/be around someone who's slowly killing himself and you can't do a thing about it.

It's also naive to think management would ever give a shit about an artist. Money is pretty much all they care about.

That said, good for Scott for coming clean about a lot of things. I really hope he's on the road to recovery and can just be happy.

[Ana4Stapp]

It was surprising--I mean--surprises me in a very very positive way..because like the others guys here said --you do need much corageous to say these things in public...admitting his problems with drugs and alcohol... But its all positive because I think its not much late ...I think its the appropriate moment he found...because he is 32...he needs to act lke a mature man and in my opinion he started doing it, finally.
Congrats, Stapp!!!!;)

[guitardude1985]

Dam, now that one one article that worth reading. Seems like stapp had more demons in him than the exorcist...before you knew it his head would do a complete 360 and start spewing green gelatinous crud. I have always suspected what was going on with him and they were completely true. I hope his new and yet again found sobriety lasts.

[nagpo]

wow. thats some heavy stuff.

[The Lithium]

I actually had thoughts about Stapp being an alcholist. I never wanted to post them, 'cause I knew I couldn't back them up with any facts, and people would just get pissed off... But now when he puts it this way... I can finally understand him.

Creed actually seems to be quite a sad story. For some reason I can't stop thinking about Romeo And Juliet! :D Problably because I read that script a few weeks ago, but still... And I have to agree with Stapp, I don't think Creed was right for Mark either. Yes, he is a genuis, but now that he's in Alter Bridge, it's easy to tell he wasn't happy with Creed. I remember Flip saying in an interview that Mark have said: "I want you to come play with me, but only if we do at least two heavy metal songs". And now he's doing A LOT more soloing! But the reason he didn't do that in Creed, I think, is because; when they started out he wasn't that good. He said that himself in the latest TotalGuitar interview. And then when he became a good soloist Creed already had a style, and it was very hard to fit guitar solos into that style.

It's a shame though, that Americans, and at some points the world's most popular rockband never agreed. These guys all reached their top of their careers unsatisfied.

"Even if you loved us or hated us... Remember us" --Flip

[Chase]

I think it's unfair to blame the rest of Creed for his drug abuse and for their supposedly not doing anything to help him. No one can really help anyone unless that person wants to help himself, no matter how much you love them or how much you think you can do. That's why they have groups like Al-Anon. It's extremely difficult and heartbreaking to cope with and live/be around someone who's slowly killing himself and you can't do a thing about it.

It's also naive to think management would ever give a shit about an artist. Money is pretty much all they care about.

That said, good for Scott for coming clean about a lot of things. I really hope he's on the road to recovery and can just be happy.

I never blamed the rest of Creed for Scott's drug use. But if the man has an obvious problem... why didn't they try to help him out? I haven't heard a thing about Tremonti or Phillips doing anything to help him out. The management agency is hired to do more than just booked concert dates. They should've put a hold on the Weathered tour and encourage Stapp to rest and clean up. By pushing Stapp during his state, they actually ended up having it backfire on him. That tour sealed the deal in terms of Creed's evident breakup and as a result of Creed's breakup... they were fired by Stapp and lost some revenue. Creed and Stapp helped put Wind-Up on the map... and have been Wind-Up's biggest success. You would think that they would try to do something to preserve Creed. A lot of people are to blame. Scott messed up, we know that. But at least somebody could had the courtesy to help a man in need.

[Chase]

I actually had thoughts about Stapp being an alcholist. I never wanted to post them, 'cause I knew I couldn't back them up with any facts, and people would just get pissed off... But now when he puts it this way... I can finally understand him.

Creed actually seems to be quite a sad story. For some reason I can't stop thinking about Romeo And Juliet! :D Problably because I read that script a few weeks ago, but still... And I have to agree with Stapp, I don't think Creed was right for Mark either. Yes, he is a genuis, but now that he's in Alter Bridge, it's easy to tell he wasn't happy with Creed. I remember Flip saying in an interview that Mark have said: "I want you to come play with me, but only if we do at least two heavy metal songs". And now he's doing A LOT more soloing! But the reason he didn't do that in Creed, I think, is because; when they started out he wasn't that good. He said that himself in the latest TotalGuitar interview. And then when he became a good soloist Creed already had a style, and it was very hard to fit guitar solos into that style.

It's a shame though, that Americans, and at some points the world's most popular rockband never agreed. These guys all reached their top of their careers unsatisfied.

"Even if you loved us or hated us... Remember us" --Flip

A lot of Americans agreed... I'm confused by that statement.

[Dogstar]

I never blamed the rest of Creed for Scott's drug use. But if the man has an obvious problem... why didn't they try to help him out? I haven't heard a thing about Tremonti or Phillips doing anything to help him out. The management agency is hired to do more than just booked concert dates. They should've put a hold on the Weathered tour and encourage Stapp to rest and clean up. By pushing Stapp during his state, they actually ended up having it backfire on him. That tour sealed the deal in terms of Creed's evident breakup and as a result of Creed's breakup... they were fired by Stapp and lost some revenue. Creed and Stapp helped put Wind-Up on the map... and have been Wind-Up's biggest success. You would think that they would try to do something to preserve Creed. A lot of people are to blame. Scott messed up, we know that. But at least somebody could had the courtesy to help a man in need.
There's a lot we haven't heard, until very recently. I'm sure we still don't have the full story. I didn't mean to say you blamed them for his drug abuse. I worded that poorly. I meant to say it sounded as if you were blaming them for their not helping him. As I said, it's really not fair to judge the rest of the band members' perceived lack of help. I'm sure at some point they did try to help him, but again, it's extremely difficult to help someone who isn't ready to help himself.

Again, at the risk of repeating myself, it's completely naive to think a management company would give two shits about a drugged-up singer. All they care about is making money, period. I still think there is plenty about the situation we will never know.

[bobben]

Someone have to make a movie out of this. This story is just unbelieveable and a great draft for a script! Stuff like "But fame caused the biggest destruction of his personality. The more power he got, the more corrupted he became" could be the starting point for writing this movie!! I see Spielberg as director, Howard as producer and Russel Crowe (since he used to be a singer) or Colin Farrell (cuz he looks the same) as Stapp. :cool:

I seriously got tears in my eyes when I read the whole thing! RS should make this their big headline! Well written!

[nagpo]

Someone have to make a movie out of this. This story is just unbelieveable and a great draft for a script! Stuff like "But fame caused the biggest destruction of his personality. The more power he got, the more corrupted he became" could be the starting point for writing this movie!! I see Spielberg as director, Howard as producer and Russel Crowe (since he used to be a singer) or Colin Farrell (cuz he looks the same) as Stapp. :cool:

I seriously got tears in my eyes when I read the whole thing! RS should make this their big headline! Well written!
id see it.

[Braddsn]

Dogstar said everything I wanted to. I have a sister that went through about 8 years of serious alchohol abuse. And my family is VERY close. But, if you think you can help someone that is struggling with a substance, you are dead wrong. The only hope they have is if they want to help themselves. .TRUST me.
Also, like Dogstar said, the management/record company/etc only care about $$$$$.

[Bridge of Clay]

how come is it surprising? There's nothing new about it, everybody knew it all along except for those who refused to believe the obvious. The only difference is that now it's coming from Stapp's mouth...

[Ana4Stapp]

how come is it surprising? There's nothing new about it, everybody knew it all along except for those who refused to believe the obvious. The only difference is that now it's coming from Stapp's mouth...

Youre right...but I said it was surprising and also a good thing that HE finally admitted those things.

[Bridge of Clay]

I was referring to other people Ana, not you! :)

[Ana4Stapp]

I was referring to other people Ana, not you! :)
;)

[Tremontixriffs]

I am a huge Tremonti fan I am very pissed that in this interview disses creeds music, i believe it to be totally fucked up!He can say what he wants but for him to diss creeds music is to diss the fans that paid to listen and to support them.Alterbridge is not as good of a band as creed was, they will never be, just like Stapp will never be either. They are at their best collectively! Lets just put the whole thing to rest because if I have to hear Mark dissing Creed I'd rather listen to Audioslave and forget about a crap band called alter bridge..I am so pissed!


"I haven't listened to a Creed song in years," he confesses. "I can't stand it. I wouldn't want to play those songs again. It was a complete nightmare"

Mark you Suck ! Time to grow up! If you can't stand creeds music, you should defintely stop listening to the crap music your making with a poser rock star wannabe because it's way worse!

[titan9]

I've always suspected it, I've always thought it was true, but I did not know for sure. Just because you think something is true, that's not always the case. That is why, in the past, I have said that if he has a problem, he needs to get help. Obviously, he did/does have a problem, and he did get help for it. Kudos to him for realizing his weakness and seeking help for it.

[Bridge of Clay]

yeah, kudos for him to always point his finger to someone else to justify the consequences of his own choices.

[Stappishot]

I am very happy for stapp and admitting that he has a problem, anyone who's anyone could see that. I just hope he can stick with it. I really do. I have a bestfriend that's fighting the same thing. I just hope stapp gets better, and I will pray that he does. The tour will keep him busy enough I think, so he wont think about drinking to much cause he'll be to busy having fun on stage again! :D

[titan9]

yeah, kudos for him to always point his finger to someone else to justify the consequences of his own choices.

Who is saying that he is still pointing his finger at someone else? He has admitted in the past that he has made mistakes, and did the same in this interview. The only thing I can find in this interview to back up your comment is when Stapp said that "his problems weren't what broke up Creed". And you know what? I think he's probably right. Yes, his problems probably contributed to the break-up, but I do not think that was the main reason for it. Mark was obviously moving in a different direction than Stapp was after HC. Even if Stapp had no drinking problems, no drug problems, who is to say that Creed would still be around today?

[Steve]

This really doesn't have to do with the topic everyone is discussing here but from the article:

"It's funny," says Tremonti, "how many people come out of the woodwork after a relationship is severed and say how much they hated your singer. Every band that ever opened for us pretty much said, 'Yeah, that tour was great, we loved opening for you guys, but Scott never even looked at us.'

That's exactly the story a friend of mine told me when his band opened for Creed back in 1997. :) Again, back in 1997! Before Creed was even popular!

[TheGreatDivide]

I miss Creed now after reading that..... im gonna listen to MOP again. BTW I'm gonna write a screenplay for the movie :)

[Higher_Desire]

it's funny. the more i learn about stapp, the more i can't help but think that we're related or something. besides the fame, it seems like we've been through the exact same things. he wanted to end his life because of creed, and my life was saved because of creed. drugs, alcohol, depression, abuse... damn. i've been there and it ain't pretty. i would love to sit down for just five minutes with scott and talk to him and hug him. let's just say that i understand exactly why he said absolutely nothing during the whole ordeal when we had so many questions. aside from everyone thinking they can help, becuase you know they can't, people going through this type of thing think that they are alone. can you imagine what the media would have done if they had gotten wind of it while it was going on? jeez. that definetly wouldn't have been pretty. i'm glad he's taking the recovering so seriously now. especially with things like having a sobriety coach on the road with him.

all i can really say is, scott, i love you man. keep up the good work and i hope to see you on the road!


H-D :pimp:

[Chase]

yeah, kudos for him to always point his finger to someone else to justify the consequences of his own choices.

ummmm... no.

[Vliegs]

I am a huge Tremonti fan I am very pissed that in this interview disses creeds music, i believe it to be totally fucked up!He can say what he wants but for him to diss creeds music is to diss the fans that paid to listen and to support them.Alterbridge is not as good of a band as creed was, they will never be, just like Stapp will never be either. They are at their best collectively! Lets just put the whole thing to rest because if I have to hear Mark dissing Creed I'd rather listen to Audioslave and forget about a crap band called alter bridge..I am so pissed!


"I haven't listened to a Creed song in years," he confesses. "I can't stand it. I wouldn't want to play those songs again. It was a complete nightmare"

Mark you Suck ! Time to grow up! If you can't stand creeds music, you should defintely stop listening to the crap music your making with a poser rock star wannabe because it's way worse!


Okay so I need some clarification here....you're a self proclaimed fan of Mark right? And then I see your signature...which looks to be Stapp's signature way of taking veiled potshots at his former band mates.

Then you go on to diss a perfectly decent, in fact awesome man, who's now the lead singer of Mark's current band. I'm confused as to where Myles has shown a poser rock star attitude. If you're referring to his appearance at the end of the movie Rock Star....it's called "acting." Something he has not done at all with his performances on tour in AB. B/c he's genuine.

Tell me how Creed could have been at their best collectively if Mark, the person you profess to be a rather big fan of, wasn't able to fully utilize his talent and chops on the guitar b/c of the restraints put on him from the genre Creed was classified with and the musical style that the record company and Stapp felt they needed to stick with to sell the most albums. Yes I once loved the music too...I may again someday...but that's not the route that Mark wanted or needed to take anymore. He's had full creative reign with his skills and style since Creed dissipated and has truly shown what he's capable of. Fantastic guitar riffs and melodies that are hard core rock and still hail back to the days of classic rock as well. Yet now he sucks b/c he can't listen to the songs from a band he was in anymore b/c the frontman of that band has soured his whole viewpoint of that time with his now admitted abusive, delirious and downright egomaniacal acts?

I think it's sad that Stapp has reduced Mark's viewpoint of Creed to such a low state. Not just Mark's however....TONS of Creed fans who finally started to see the truth, a very long time ago, that was admitted in this article and realized what was going on now see the music in a different light b/c of Stapp's actions. And Mark sucks for saying what hundreds to thousands of fans have already said?

*edited to add*

I think this was a very good move on Scott's part to FINALLY fess up to some of this stuff that people have known and suspected for years. It clears the air of some things. He's still taking potshots with it but hey....zebra can't change it's stripes completely. I really do applaud him for admitting what he has in this article. I think this may have started out as a forced effort from Windup as damage control after seeing the debacle on Casino Cinema but those are only my own suspicions. This is the most honest article I've ever seen from Scott and I loved it! I sincerely hope he's able to go through the tour completely dry with the help if Jaclyn and his sobriety coach b/c it will only do him that much better.

[Creed7352]

and the talk of people not helping him with the drinking...it's tough to do when the guy locked himself up in trailers and backstage dressing rooms to himself and rode on a separate bus on the weathered tour than the rest of the band.

[facelessmike]

All I can say is that its a relief to finally have some factual knowledge of the events in that article. It is interesting that all our specuation about Scott had some basis in truth. On the whole, it is a really sad and alarming story of the demise of a truly great band. But for me, and hopefully for all Creed fans, this information will bring some closure to the troubled past and the breakup, and will now direct focus on the promise of the future for all the members of Creed. :jam:

[facelessmike]

it's funny. the more i learn about stapp, the more i can't help but think that we're related or something. besides the fame, it seems like we've been through the exact same things. he wanted to end his life because of creed, and my life was saved because of creed. drugs, alcohol, depression, abuse... damn. i've been there and it ain't pretty. i would love to sit down for just five minutes with scott and talk to him and hug him. let's just say that i understand exactly why he said absolutely nothing during the whole ordeal when we had so many questions. aside from everyone thinking they can help, becuase you know they can't, people going through this type of thing think that they are alone. can you imagine what the media would have done if they had gotten wind of it while it was going on? jeez. that definetly wouldn't have been pretty. i'm glad he's taking the recovering so seriously now. especially with things like having a sobriety coach on the road with him.


Amen!!! ;)

[Bridge of Clay]

Who is saying that he is still pointing his finger at someone else? He has admitted in the past that he has made mistakes, and did the same in this interview. The only thing I can find in this interview to back up your comment is when Stapp said that "his problems weren't what broke up Creed". And you know what? I think he's probably right. Yes, his problems probably contributed to the break-up, but I do not think that was the main reason for it. Mark was obviously moving in a different direction than Stapp was after HC. Even if Stapp had no drinking problems, no drug problems, who is to say that Creed would still be around today?

Did you read the interview? it's pretty obvious he blames a few other people.

I'm not saying Creed would still be around... never did.

[bobben]

I am a huge Tremonti fan I am very pissed that in this interview disses creeds music, i believe it to be totally fucked up!He can say what he wants but for him to diss creeds music is to diss the fans that paid to listen and to support them.

So true! SO true!

BTW I'm gonna write a screenplay for the movie.

Good! Be sure to give it to give it to the right people then! ;) I can see many Oscars coming your way!

[titan9]

Did you read the interview? it's pretty obvious he blames a few other people.

Yes, I read the interview twice, to make sure I am not missing something. Here's some quotes from it to back up what I said:

"I've made a lot of mistakes I'm not proud of."

There he admits to making a lot of mistakes in the past. He isn't blaming someone else....he is saying that HE made the mistakes.

"I felt like I was the reason these guys' dream wasn't happening. I think their rock & roll dream got screwed over by my lyrics."

Right there he admits that he felt he was the reason why the band was hated. He felt guilty about it because not only did the hate hurt him, it also hurt the other members of Creed.

Stapp insists his health problems were very real. When the tour finally resumed, he says he contracted pneumonia and had developed nodules on his vocal cords that could have ended his career. "I showed the band documented medical reports," Stapp says. "But they were being told other things by management, I think, to keep pressure on me to tour. Someone actually stood up at a meeting -- I'm not going to say who -- and said, 'I don't care. I've got an effing house and wedding to pay for.'"

Maybe in that quote you feel he is blaming someone? Here's my interpretation of it: he is making sure that people know that yes, he did have a ton of health problems before, during and after the Weathered tour. These problems(the car accident, the vocal nodules and such) were documented. However, like Stapp said, apparently the management told the rest of the band(Flip, Tremo and Brett) that wasn't the case. Given how screwed up Stapp was at that point in his life, they probably chose to believe what management said and thus did not really care about the health problems. Not really their fault, because if I were in their shoes and had observed the heavy partying, I'd believe management as well. But, really, all Stapp is doing in this quote is affirming what he has said for years now: he had health problems during the Weathered tour, and instead of taking time off to heal, he kept going at it because he didn't want to let the rest of the band down.

"My problems were not what ended Creed," Stapp insists. "Creed was ended by egos and people wanting to do their own thing and poor decision-making. You have family members whispering in people's ears, saying, 'You're not getting enough credit.' In every interview I did, I'd say, 'This is easy to do when you're playing with the best guitar player in the world.' I meant it. And I still think he's a genius. But Mark was never happy. He wanted to do his own thing."

That's probably another quote where you think he is blaming other people for his mistakes. Well, the way I interpret it is this: he is saying that Creed was ended by egos(management, the band, the label etc), people wanting to do their own thing(namely Mark wanting to shred and really showcase his ability as a guitarist) and poor decision-making(Stapp doing the Weathered tour despite the health problems). What he says about Mark never being happy seems to be the case. Look at what Mark has said since the break-up....look at what he said in this interview. It was obvious that he was not happy with the direction Creed was heading toward. He wanted to shred. He didn't want to be so hated by the music world. He wanted to do his own thing. That isn't Scott's fault and I don't think Scott is blaming his problems on Mark.

Unless I am completely missing something, I don't see how you think he is blaming other people(for his mistakes and problems) in this interview.

[crest tattoo]

I'm interested in the part where he says there's still phone calls to be made. That is a major step in recovery. With his past, I pray for him he can hold on to his faith. You know he knows what his faith is, and he fights it so hard sometimes. I hope this time, he can hold on. He needs prayer, and so does Jagger and the rest of his family.

[SummerGirl]

Thanks for posting this Sarah!!!

[Dogstar]

This really doesn't have to do with the topic everyone is discussing here but from the article:



That's exactly the story a friend of mine told me when his band opened for Creed back in 1997. :) Again, back in 1997! Before Creed was even popular!
Jerry Cantrell, though not naming Stapp directly, also said something similar when he toured with them in 2002. He mentioned how the Nickelback guys were great to tour with, friendly, always wanting to hang out. He said he never got as much as a hello from Creed.

[Bridge of Clay]

Zia, the bassist for Mayfield Four, is the one who Stapp asked to get a coke for him - according to Julia.

[The Lithium]

I am a huge Tremonti fan I am very pissed that in this interview disses creeds music, i believe it to be totally fucked up!He can say what he wants but for him to diss creeds music is to diss the fans that paid to listen and to support them.Alterbridge is not as good of a band as creed was, they will never be, just like Stapp will never be either. They are at their best collectively! Lets just put the whole thing to rest because if I have to hear Mark dissing Creed I'd rather listen to Audioslave and forget about a crap band called alter bridge..I am so pissed!
Well, I can't see what makes you a Tremonti fan when you always bitch at him... And I think it would be wrong of Mark to diss Creed's music, yes. But he really didn't! I think Stapp did most of the Mark-didn't-like-Creed-statments himself. And did Mark say he didn't want to play Creed songs because he didn't like the music? It was HIS music Goddamnit! He said it was a complete nightmare to him, and what the hell do you know about it? Really...? He doesn't want to listen to Creed, because towards the end of Creed it was a negative experience for him. I can't recall him saying: "Nobody should listen to Creed". He didn't even diss Creed's music. He just said it was a nightmare, and I understand him. That Chicago show can't have been fun for him.

And hey, no one's even forceing you to listen to either Mark or AB.

Oh, and I agree a little bit with Marcos. Even though Stapp took responsibility for many things, he still did blame some other people for some things.

[Mrprophetman]

Imagine going out on stage every night, and standing next to a guy who was more worried about his house and his wedding than whether you lived or died. Geez.

[Dogstar]

Imagine going out on stage every night, and standing next to a guy who was more worried about his house and his wedding than whether you lived or died. Geez.
We don't even know if that someone actually said that.

[Mrprophetman]

We don't even know if that someone actually said that.


You mean....we don't know if someone actually said that?...actually, I figure Stapp's telling the truth. If his bandmates knew that continuing to perform would make his health problems worse, they could have refused to perform and management wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Its pretty apparent that's not the way they felt. They wanted to work....they have said as much in interviews. It also proves that they weren't as clueless to Stapp's predicament as they claimed to be. They just simply didn't care. That's what pulling in a million per concert will do to you.

[evyllsummer]

Stapp was a drug addict. Was that Mark's fault? Stapp's health was in danger because he was living DANGEROUSLY, and, as MOST of us have been saying all along, there was a LOT more than JUST prednisone that was responsible for his health and behavior. It's a funny thing, when you have mostly Jack Daniels, percocet, and zanax in your system, your health is eventually going to take a nosedive. It's not like he had Lou Gehrig's Disease or diabetes...Stapp's physical maladies were, for the most part, the direct result of his debacherous rock and roll lifestyle. Let's assume for a moment that what Stapp said about that remark was unequivocally true, and that it was Mark that said it, isn't it even a LITTLE understandable that Mark might be a little upset that the ENTIRE BAND could possibly grind to a halt because of some REALLY bad decisions that Stapp had made alone?

I'm curious, is ALL of Stapp's behavior and addictions going to be blamed on his bandmates, or has Stapp earned any of the blame himself?

[evyllsummer]

and, as for theory being presented involving Mark being all about the money, is that why he abandoned the multi-platinum selling Creed? Is that why he hired Brian Marshall (the band member he FIRED) as the bassist for Alter Bridge, even AFTER Brian SUED both Mark AND Stapp for compensation after his dismissal from Creed? Mark STILL hired him, thereby giving Brian the chance to do it again...when Mark could have literally hundreds of bassists vying for that job, he wanted Marshall...Brian, Mark, Flip, Brett, all still friends...the one that is out of the equation? Stapp, because that's how he wanted it...now, I'm sure that Stapp is naturally a solitary person, and, maybe, deep down, he wanted to be a part of that group, but, considering that everyone ELSE is still friends, it's pretty clear that Stapp could have been in that group if he had TRIED to be...

[The Lithium]

I totally agree with you Chris!!! You can't help someone if that someone doesn't want your help! It's impossible!

Imagine going out on stage every night, and standing next to a guy who was more worried about his house and his wedding than whether you lived or died. Geez.
What? We don't even know if that WAS Mark! It problably was someone from the management! Mark is a millionair, I think he could've afford the house and wedding anyway. And let's just say it was Mark... You still don't know what had been said before that. But maybe... MAYBE that was one of Mark's mistakes. But Stapp was the one who destroied his own health. And you can't blame no one else for that!

So am I getting this right...? Most of you Stapp fans are upset with Mark right now after Stapp finally took responsibility for most of his actions? Why are you upset with Mark now? Was it the "Nightmare"-comment... Well, honestly...

Stapp was the one who were addicted to both alchol and drungs. Stapp was the one who'd hit people in the face. Stapp was the one wasn't able to preform well. Stapp was the one who cancled tour dates. Stapp was the one who rode other busses than the rest of the band, (problably so he could drink and do drugs), so the band couldn't stop him from doing it. Stapp was the one who rolled around on stage. And Stapp was the one who were famous for being unpolite to journalists...

And Mark is still the one to blame because he didn't think all of that was fun?

[evyllsummer]

thanks man...

[SummerGirl]

and, as for theory being presented involving Mark being all about the money, is that why he abandoned the multi-platinum selling Creed? Is that why he hired Brian Marshall (the band member he FIRED) as the bassist for Alter Bridge, even AFTER Brian SUED both Mark AND Stapp for compensation after his dismissal from Creed? Mark STILL hired him, thereby giving Brian the chance to do it again...when Mark could have literally hundreds of bassists vying for that job, he wanted Marshall...Brian, Mark, Flip, Brett, all still friends...the one that is out of the equation? Stapp, because that's how he wanted it...now, I'm sure that Stapp is naturally a solitary person, and, maybe, deep down, he wanted to be a part of that group, but, considering that everyone ELSE is still friends, it's pretty clear that Stapp could have been in that group if he had TRIED to be...
Beautiful...just beautiful...

[Mrprophetman]

I totally agree with you Chris!!! You can't help someone if that someone doesn't want your help! It's impossible!


What? We don't even know if that WAS Mark! It problably was someone from the management! Mark is a millionair, I think he could've afford the house and wedding anyway. And let's just say it was Mark... You still don't know what had been said before that. But maybe... MAYBE that was one of Mark's mistakes. But Stapp was the one who destroied his own health. And you can't blame no one else for that!

So am I getting this right...? Most of you Stapp fans are upset with Mark right now after Stapp finally took responsibility for most of his actions? Why are you upset with Mark now? Was it the "Nightmare"-comment... Well, honestly...

Stapp was the one who were addicted to both alchol and drungs. Stapp was the one who'd hit people in the face. Stapp was the one wasn't able to preform well. Stapp was the one who cancled tour dates. Stapp was the one who rode other busses than the rest of the band, (problably so he could drink and do drugs), so the band couldn't stop him from doing it. Stapp was the one who rolled around on stage. And Stapp was the one who were famous for being unpolite to journalists...

And Mark is still the one to blame because he didn't think all of that was fun?

I'm not blaming Tremonti for anything....but I do think he made the statement Stapp referred to. I think Stapp has taken his amount of the blame for alot of what he's done, and its obvious that he admits his problem and his need to deal with it. But, it would still be hard to go out there every night and stand next to a man who no longer cared about you as a person....but only for what you might do to his earning potential. I'd withdraw too. I hope that house got paid for....cause the millions aren't rolling in like they used to.

[evyllsummer]

yeah, Stapp had better be saving HIS money as well...and he may need to choose some LESS expensive leather pants...

[Dogstar]

I'm not blaming Tremonti for anything....but I do think he made the statement Stapp referred to. I think Stapp has taken his amount of the blame for alot of what he's done, and its obvious that he admits his problem and his need to deal with it. But, it would still be hard to go out there every night and stand next to a man who no longer cared about you as a person....but only for what you might do to his earning potential. I'd withdraw too. I hope that house got paid for....cause the millions aren't rolling in like they used to.
Do you even have the first clue about the damage an addict can do to the people who care about him and surround him? Did you even think for one second how hard it might have been for Mark and the others to stand next to Stapp every night??

[Dogstar]

and, as for theory being presented involving Mark being all about the money, is that why he abandoned the multi-platinum selling Creed? Is that why he hired Brian Marshall (the band member he FIRED) as the bassist for Alter Bridge, even AFTER Brian SUED both Mark AND Stapp for compensation after his dismissal from Creed? Mark STILL hired him, thereby giving Brian the chance to do it again...when Mark could have literally hundreds of bassists vying for that job, he wanted Marshall...Brian, Mark, Flip, Brett, all still friends...the one that is out of the equation? Stapp, because that's how he wanted it...now, I'm sure that Stapp is naturally a solitary person, and, maybe, deep down, he wanted to be a part of that group, but, considering that everyone ELSE is still friends, it's pretty clear that Stapp could have been in that group if he had TRIED to be...

Well said.

[Vliegs]

But, it would still be hard to go out there every night and stand next to a man who no longer cared about you as a person....but only for what you might do to his earning potential. I'd withdraw too. I hope that house got paid for....cause the millions aren't rolling in like they used to.

So THAT'S why Stapp was always humping Mark's leg during a show! :rolleyes:

As far as the money statement is concerned...Mark, Flip and Brian have spent their money far more wisely than Stapp has since the beginning of Creed. Like Chris said....Mark obviously isn't in it for money otherwise he'd still be trapped in Creed and would have become a professional apologizer by now for Scott's continuing actions.

[Dogstar]

These are lyrics from a song by A Perfect Circle called The Noose. There are two sides to every story:

So glad to see you well
Overcome and completely silent now
With heaven's help
You cast your demons out
And not to pull your halo down
Around your neck and tug you off your cloud
But I'm more than just a little curious
How you're planning to go about
Making your amends to the dead
To the dead

Recall the deeds as if
They're all someone else's
Atrocious stories
Now you stand reborn before us all
So glad to see you well

And not to pull your halo down
Around your neck and tug you to the ground
But I'm more than just a little curious
How you're planning to go about
Making your amends to the dead
To the dead

With your halo slipping down
Your halo slipping
Your halo slipping down
Your halo slipping down
Your halo slipping down

Your halo slipping down to choke you now

[Stappishot]

What does everyone think about this story? Do u think it's more of a push my career cause his album isn't doing so well and he wants people to read it and feel sorry for him so they will buy the album, or do u think maybe he really wanted to tell his side finally? Ur opinion please.

What do you think?

I'm not bashing the guy, so please don't think that.

[Dogstar]

I'm guessing a little of both. Publicity of any kind can't hurt. I'm not so sure he really wanted to tell all. I know I wouldn't if I were in his shoes. I wonder if this was management/label driven because of the 311 fight and the Casino Cinema appearance coming so close to the tour. That sure wouldn't do much to get people to buy tickets if he's going to pull another Chicago. I honestly hope this helps him stay sober. And it did answer a good many questions, though there is plenty I'm sure we don't and won't ever know regarding the breakup.

[Chase]

I totally agree with you Chris!!! You can't help someone if that someone doesn't want your help! It's impossible!


What? We don't even know if that WAS Mark! It problably was someone from the management! Mark is a millionair, I think he could've afford the house and wedding anyway. And let's just say it was Mark... You still don't know what had been said before that. But maybe... MAYBE that was one of Mark's mistakes. But Stapp was the one who destroied his own health. And you can't blame no one else for that!

So am I getting this right...? Most of you Stapp fans are upset with Mark right now after Stapp finally took responsibility for most of his actions? Why are you upset with Mark now? Was it the "Nightmare"-comment... Well, honestly...

Stapp was the one who were addicted to both alchol and drungs. Stapp was the one who'd hit people in the face. Stapp was the one wasn't able to preform well. Stapp was the one who cancled tour dates. Stapp was the one who rode other busses than the rest of the band, (problably so he could drink and do drugs), so the band couldn't stop him from doing it. Stapp was the one who rolled around on stage. And Stapp was the one who were famous for being unpolite to journalists...

And Mark is still the one to blame because he didn't think all of that was fun?

What people are saying is that Tremonti, Phillips, and the management could've had the common courtesy to help out Stapp. I have yet to hear anything about those people giving Stapp some kind of support. Mark is partially to blame because he comes off more as caring about touring than the health of his fellow bandmates. Stapp made bad decisions... but Mark had is own selfishness as well. Bottom line: everyone screwed up.

[Chase]

What does everyone think about this story? Do u think it's more of a push my career cause his album isn't doing so well and he wants people to read it and feel sorry for him so they will buy the album, or do u think maybe he really wanted to tell his side finally? Ur opinion please.

What do you think?

I'm not bashing the guy, so please don't think that.

You bashing Stapp? The guy who you said is going to destroy his sons life by getting married... and then will ultimately destroy his marriage because you think he's a drug addict?

Why does everyone always think there's a catch. The guy said what he was feeling... and came out about his problems.

[Chase]

and, as for theory being presented involving Mark being all about the money, is that why he abandoned the multi-platinum selling Creed? Is that why he hired Brian Marshall (the band member he FIRED) as the bassist for Alter Bridge, even AFTER Brian SUED both Mark AND Stapp for compensation after his dismissal from Creed? Mark STILL hired him, thereby giving Brian the chance to do it again...when Mark could have literally hundreds of bassists vying for that job, he wanted Marshall...Brian, Mark, Flip, Brett, all still friends...the one that is out of the equation? Stapp, because that's how he wanted it...now, I'm sure that Stapp is naturally a solitary person, and, maybe, deep down, he wanted to be a part of that group, but, considering that everyone ELSE is still friends, it's pretty clear that Stapp could have been in that group if he had TRIED to be...

Wait a minute... wait a minute... so Mark believes that people deserve another chance? And you happen to agree with him? Good. Then you surely believe that Stapp can have a shot at redemption in life.

[Stappishot]

You bashing Stapp? The guy who you said is going to destroy his sons life by getting married... and then will ultimately destroy his marriage because you think he's a drug addict?

Why does everyone always think there's a catch. The guy said what he was feeling... and came out about his problems.

Listen don't put words there that I didn't say! I never said that he will destroy his sons life by getting married! Don't even go there! U just pissed me off! Don't even fucking go there! Ur the one up his ass like a butt buddy or something! RELAX!

[Dogstar]

What people are saying is that Tremonti, Phillips, and the management could've had the common courtesy to help out Stapp. I have yet to hear anything about those people giving Stapp some kind of support.
You or I have no idea what they did or didn't do to help him out initially. As I said before, no one can really help an addict if he's not ready to accept the help. I don't think the rest of Creed are the bad guys here. You fail to recognize that these were choices initially made by STAPP to do drugs and drink. I do fault management for either not recognizing that the problem was more severe than they were willing to admit or simply ignoring it, but then again, they are ruled by making a ton of money. They weren't going to let their cash cow run dry before its time.

Mark is partially to blame because he comes off more as caring about touring than the health of his fellow bandmates. Stapp made bad decisions... but Mark had is own selfishness as well. Bottom line: everyone screwed up.

Again, it was Stapp who decided to do drugs and drink, not Mark. And again, we don't know what was really done or not done to help Stapp.

[Dogstar]

Wait a minute... wait a minute... so Mark believes that people deserve another chance? And you happen to agree with him? Good. Then you surely believe that Stapp can have a shot at redemption in life.
Did you ever think that maybe they gave Stapp a lot of second chances before the breakup? That would make their bitterness and steadfast resolution not to get back together quite understandable.

[IamFilthy]

Mark you Suck ! Time to grow up! If you can't stand creeds music, you should defintely stop listening to the crap music your making with a poser rock star wannabe because it's way worse!


YESSSS!!!!!

[Chase]

Did you ever think that maybe they gave Stapp a lot of second chances before the breakup? That would make their bitterness and steadfast resolution not to get back together quite understandable.

I never realized that once you reach a certain number of chances, you become exempt from the possibility of ever changing your life around. It is possible that some bitterness was built from a feeling of abandonment from those who he was close to... his ex wife, bandmates, and management. Not to mention that the media did a effective job at mocking him. Stapp's not a saint.. and neither are the rest of the people that were involved with Creed.

[Mrprophetman]

What does everyone think about this story? Do u think it's more of a push my career cause his album isn't doing so well and he wants people to read it and feel sorry for him so they will buy the album, or do u think maybe he really wanted to tell his side finally? Ur opinion please.

What do you think?

I'm not bashing the guy, so please don't think that.

Maybe he got tired of everyone of his critics calling him a liar. Maybe he's truly ready to deal with his problems. The first step is admitting you have one. He's done that now.

[Stappishot]

Maybe he got tired of everyone of his critics calling him a liar. Maybe he's truly ready to deal with his problems. The first step is admitting you have one. He's done that now.

I agree. Well put.

[Chase]

You or I have no idea what they did or didn't do to help him out initially. As I said before, no one can really help an addict if he's not ready to accept the help. I don't think the rest of Creed are the bad guys here. You fail to recognize that these were choices initially made by STAPP to do drugs and drink. I do fault management for either not recognizing that the problem was more severe than they were willing to admit or simply ignoring it, but then again, they are ruled by making a ton of money. They weren't going to let their cash cow run dry before its time.



Again, it was Stapp who decided to do drugs and drink, not Mark. And again, we don't know what was really done or not done to help Stapp.

Most addicts are in denial about their addictions. Most of them try to act like they don't need help. What makes Stapp any different? Most times... it takes support from the people you're close to in order to kick bad habits like alcoholism or drug use. Well... now is Mark's chance to say something if he did try to help. Nobody has said anything... so that makes it difficult to believe that they did try to help the guy out. I would try my best to help out a friend or bandmate. All management had to do was cancel or postpone the tour. They did for a few shows after Stapp got in a car accident... or a soar throat. If this was an ongoing problem with Stapp... someone should've recognized it.

[Chase]

Listen don't put words there that I didn't say! I never said that he will destroy his sons life by getting married! Don't even go there! U just pissed me off! Don't even fucking go there! Ur the one up his ass like a butt buddy or something! RELAX!

Up his ass? What... because I think the guy is able to actually do something positive? Because I happen to believe that he's able to change his life around? Up his ass? Yeah... who has the screen name "Stappishot?" Exactly.

[Stappishot]

Up his ass? What... because I don't think the guy is able to actually do something positive? Because I happen to believe that he's able to change his life around? Up his ass? Yeah... who has the screen name "Stappishot?" Exactly.

U r up his ass, ur just something else! And yes I do have stappishot cause I think he's hot! I don't go around trying to defend his every move! What's wrong with u! AND DON'T EVER, EVER PUT SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T WRITE DOWN ANYMORE! THAT WAS JUST RUDE! If ur gonna say something say something THAT I SAID! Not something that u think I said! :mad1:

[Mrprophetman]

I never realized that once you reach a certain number of chances, you become exempt from the possibility of ever changing your life around. It is possible that some bitterness was built from a feeling of abandonment from those who he was close to... his ex wife, bandmates, and management. Not to mention that the media did a effective job at mocking him. Stapp's not a saint.. and neither are the rest of the people that were involved with Creed.

Apparently if you're name is Stapp you only have ONE chance. Funny though, his bandmates knew he had a problem with drugs and alcohol, but didn't feel the need to stand up for him when they wanted to pump him full of even more drugs...whatever it took to get him on stage every night. They were okay with that....it kept the money rolling in.

I think the guy is coming from a very different place now. Its as if he gets it now, and he knows what he's gotta do. I wish him much luck.

[Chase]

U r up his ass, ur just something else! And yes I do have stappishot cause I think he's hot! I don't go around trying to defend his every move! What's wrong with u! AND DON'T EVER, EVER PUT SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T WRITE DOWN ANYMORE! THAT WAS JUST RUDE! If ur gonna say something say something THAT I SAID! Not something that u think I said! :mad1:

I didn't quote you. This is the interpretation that I got from the stuff you previously posted. You were basically saying that the guy shouldn't get married because it was going to have a negative impact on his sons life. I don't go around trying to defend his every move. I just recognize that all of this judgemental bullshit is ridiculous and useless. How would like it if you were criticized for every breath you take? How would you like it if you were trying to change your life around and people didn't even have the decency to, for once, take you seriously?

[Stappishot]

I didn't quote you. This is the interpretation that I got from the stuff you previously posted. You were basically saying that the guy shouldn't get married because it was going to have a negative impact on his sons life. I don't go around trying to defend his every move. I just recognize that all of this judgemental bullshit is ridiculous and useless. How would like it if you were criticized for every breath you take? How would you like it if you were trying to change your life around and people didn't even have the decency to, for once, take you seriously?

U really need 2 calm down, again, I never said and i repeat I never said that he shouldn't get married! First of all chase read that post again! Cause U have no clue! I take Scott seriously when I know I should. I'm taking it seriously here. He has a problem and he's finally taking charge. But when I see someone doing wrong, I'm gonna put my 2 cents in, don't like it, don't read!

[Stappishot]

U know when shit like this makes me angry I wanna smoke, and I'm trying to quit. :smokin: :D But all u can do is laugh it off. And move on!

I like the challenge that CHASE gives, that's what I'm talking about! Chase ur cool, I'm just going back anD fourth cause u are. :D
I always love a challenge, and Chase my biggest challenge 2day, lol. ;)

[Chase]

U really need 2 calm down, again, I never said and i repeat I never said that he shouldn't get married! First of all chase read that post again! Cause U have no clue! I take Scott seriously when I know I should. I'm taking it seriously here. He has a problem and he's finally taking charge. But when I see someone doing wrong, I'm gonna put my 2 cents in, don't like it, don't read!

Exactly. Don't like it... don't read. I never called you a name for posting what you believe, I just don't believe in kicking the guy while he's down. Maybe you should rethink about telling me to "calm down," when you're the one who got "pissed." I do apologize for one thing... getting you confused with the othe person who's screen name is basically identical to yours. However... my point is... let the guy live his life... and let the guy try to repair his life.

I don't believe that there is any catch behind this article... I believe he is really trying to right some wrongs in his life.

[Dogstar]

Most addicts are in denial about their addictions. Most of them try to act like they don't need help. What makes Stapp any different? Most times... it takes support from the people you're close to in order to kick bad habits like alcoholism or drug use.
Yeah, once the addict decides he or she will ACCEPT help. Have you ever tried to help someone who's addicted to drugs or alcohol?

Well... now is Mark's chance to say something if he did try to help. Nobody has said anything... so that makes it difficult to believe that they did try to help the guy out. I would try my best to help out a friend or bandmate.
No it doesn't. It just means maybe they don't want to talk about it. They have moved on. Stapp is just beginning to move on. They are in different places emotionally. As I said earlier, we really don't and maybe won't know the full story. I would imagine there are some pretty awful details neither Scott nor the rest of Creed would want made public.

All management had to do was cancel or postpone the tour. They did for a few shows after Stapp got in a car accident... or a soar throat. If this was an ongoing problem with Stapp... someone should've recognized it.

This is simply beyond naive.

[Stappishot]

Exactly. Don't like it... don't read. I never called you a name for posting what you believe, I just don't believe in kicking the guy while he's down. Maybe you should rethink about telling me to "calm down," when you're the one who got "pissed." I do apologize for one thing... getting you confused with the othe person who's screen name is basically identical to yours. However... my point is... let the guy live his life... and let the guy try to repair his life.

I'm letting him do what he has to do. I'm just posting my 2 cents. So that's how this all happened u got my name confused with another, lol. WOW, that's funny!:D Yea I got pissed because u basically told me what I said that I didn't, and now here u r saying that someone else's name looks like my name. Read carefully b4 a post. I think he's well on his way by doing the article in the magazine. I just hope that he can keep this going. That'll be nice to see that. But if he can't, I'm sure we'll be back for more posting ;) :D

[RockGoddess]

I have to laugh at those who now claim that Mark, Flip, management, etc. did nothing to help Stapp with his problem. To them I would like to post a little reminder: Cameron paid for one of Stapp's many rehab sints (so much for not helping.) And then he had to sue Stapp to get his money back; that's how grateful Stapp was for the help.)

[The Lithium]

To all of you Stapp fans who blames Mark for not trying to help Stapp out, (and obviously didn't read the interview):

"We wanted to help the guy. But we'd been through that game so many times; eventually, you know, you're not your brother's keeper. We had a hundred people in that organization that relied on us. After a while, it's like, 'Are we going to live our lives like this for one person?' Then you decide, 'OK, I'll remove the cancer."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All management had to do was cancel or postpone the tour. They did for a few shows after Stapp got in a car accident... or a soar throat. If this was an ongoing problem with Stapp... someone should've recognized it.
Yes, but for what? Do you think Stapp would stop do drugs and alchol just because they postpone the tour a few weeks/months? It takes years, if you ever come clean.

And again... You cannot help someone if that person doesn't accept your help! Stapp rode other busses than the rest of the band throughtout the whole tour! There is just no way they knew exactly what he went through, 'cause the locked himself in. And inside himself. I'm sure they all tried to watch his back, Mark said they did. But when you tell a drug addict: "You have got to quit", and the drug addict goes: "Mind your own bizz, I'm fine!" - it's impossible to help.

[Steve]

Sorry came a little late here, Stappishot please don't resort to namecalling and insults. Chase presented his thoughts orderly and you come back and throw insults towards him. No need for that.

[Ana4Stapp]

As I said before, no one can really help an addict if he's not ready to accept the help.


Very true!!!!!

[Ana4Stapp]

I never realized that once you reach a certain number of chances, you become exempt from the possibility of ever changing your life around. It is possible that some bitterness was built from a feeling of abandonment from those who he was close to... his ex wife, bandmates, and management. Not to mention that the media did a effective job at mocking him. Stapp's not a saint.. and neither are the rest of the people that were involved with Creed.

Yeah...but the most sad thing is that he definitely contributed to this image...:rolleyes:

[Stappishot]

Sorry came a little late here, Stappishot please don't resort to namecalling and insults. Chase presented his thoughts orderly and you come back and throw insults towards him. No need for that.


That I understand, and that's all I'm saying cause I don't want this to be on going, I just wanna read post and that's it.

[Stappishot]

Thanks Ana for going to myspace, I put u on my friend list! :D

[IamFilthy]

U r up his ass, ur just something else! And yes I do have stappishot cause I think he's hot! I don't go around trying to defend his every move! What's wrong with u! AND DON'T EVER, EVER PUT SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T WRITE DOWN ANYMORE! THAT WAS JUST RUDE! If ur gonna say something say something THAT I SAID! Not something that u think I said! :mad1:

WHOA!!!! Somebody should calm down and take their meds.

[Stappishot]

WHOA!!!! Somebody should calm down and take their meds.

Okay b4 anyone else wants to butt in on this, I was having a bad day yesterday, lol, I apologize. Really I do. But 2day, I went outside and played in the snow, and now I feel better lol!

[Stappishot]

Did anyone see the interview that Scott did on yahoo music, I tried to get in there, but they said there was an error? It's the live@launch interview.

[titan9]

Did anyone see the interview that Scott did on yahoo music, I tried to get in there, but they said there was an error? It's the live@launch interview.

The idiots at Launch have apparently forgotten to put it up. It's been that way since 10AM this morning. No one has seen the interview yet.

[Stappishot]

The idiots at Launch have apparently forgotten to put it up. It's been that way since 10AM this morning. No one has seen the interview yet.

Wow, that sucks!

[geletmote]

STapp "He also says he could foresee a Creed reunion someday"

love reading shit like that.

[geletmote]

Tremonti says fans shouldn't hold their breath. "I haven't listened to a Creed song in years," he confesses. "I can't stand it. I wouldn't want to play those songs again. It was a complete nightmare.


WELL Doesnt that make exisiting creed fans feel great?? Thats disgrace for him to say he cant stand those songs and doesnt want to play them, he created them for wat reason then MONEY?? I thought tremonti loved all those songs he wrote im talking about the guitar work mainly, I respect stapp because he still believe there could be a creed reunion, he loves every fukn song and hasnt dissed the songs like mark has even though his gone solo while mark has made his own band his ditched Creed.. Im not impresesed with mark

[Dogstar]

Maybe Mark is still really angry and bitter about Scott. That would be my guess. Maybe hearing the man's voice still makes his blood boil, which might account for his not wanting to listen to Creed songs. In the rock world, you can never really say never, but right now, a reunion seems unlikely.

[geletmote]

if they ever do reunite, ill fly all the way to US to see em in Australia. like 5 shows at least lol

[Dogstar]

:d

[The Lithium]

WELL Doesnt that make exisiting creed fans feel great?? Thats disgrace for him to say he cant stand those songs and doesnt want to play them, he created them for wat reason then MONEY?? I thought tremonti loved all those songs he wrote im talking about the guitar work mainly, I respect stapp because he still believe there could be a creed reunion, he loves every fukn song and hasnt dissed the songs like mark has even though his gone solo while mark has made his own band his ditched Creed.. Im not impresesed with mark
What's the matter with you? You know Mark only put songs he loves on his records! It can't have been the money, and you know it! He can't stand listening to Creed because towards the end of Creed it was a negative experience for him. And that wasn't his fault! I think it's pretty clear Stapp is the one to blame for that. I'm actually quite sure Stapp is the one to blame for most parts. (My opinion, no one else has to like it). Yes, Flip and Mark may have done some stupid things. Hey, Brian too! But if it wasn't for Stapp's drug and alchol addiction, and the fact that he did, and still does, behaves like an ass, Mark and Flip would've never found themselves in those situations.

I guess you can say Stapp started it, and Mark and Flip ended it. (And for all you who are gonna turn this around and throw it in my face, I'm not talking about Creed in general. I'm talking about Creed's journey towards the end).

[cariocawlad]

Hello for everyone!!

This tread is really burning...Well I just wanna say that I'm glad that Scott is looking for help. Admit the adction is the first and hard step to stay out of the drugs.

I'm sure the things in the next months will only get better: his voice, his actions and, who knows, his relationship with the other guys. I'm not talking about a reunion, as I can't see it in a near future, but heal some wounds between them would be great.

Peace.

[Bridge of Clay]

As Alicia wisely said, think of this:

You had a sad and bitter divorce. Now you're married to someone else and you're happier than before. Why would you spend time looking at your previous marriage pictures???

[Dogstar]

^^^There ya go.

[titan9]

As Alicia wisely said, think of this:

You had a sad and bitter divorce. Now you're married to someone else and you're happier than before. Why would you spend time looking at your previous marriage pictures???

Very good point.

[The Lithium]

You had a sad and bitter divorce. Now you're married to someone else and you're happier than before. Why would you spend time looking at your previous marriage pictures???
'Cause your name is Scott Stapp...?

[Stappishot]

As Alicia wisely said, think of this:

You had a sad and bitter divorce. Now you're married to someone else and you're happier than before. Why would you spend time looking at your previous marriage pictures???


Maybe he's not truly happy as everyone thinks.

[The Lithium]

Hah, I think Alica was refering to Alter Bridge, not Scott Stapp!

[Chase]

I just think, this board as a whole, should at least be happy that the guy has come clean about his problem and seems to be looking for help.

[bobben]

if they ever do reunite, ill fly all the way to US to see em in Australia. like 5 shows at least lol

Well...if Stapp really show that he's up on his legs again and is through with his problems, then Mark have to forgive him at some point...or has he lost his whole faith in Stapp forever?! If so, then Mark's a very weak man!

[Dogstar]

I just think, this board as a whole, should at least be happy that the guy has come clean about his problem and seems to be looking for help.
I am glad. I really hope he stays clean and continues doing whatever it does that makes him happy. I was just annoyed that people were blaming the other members for supposedly not helping him.

[Chase]

I am glad. I really hope he stays clean and continues doing whatever it does that makes him happy. I was just annoyed that people were blaming the other members for supposedly not helping him.

No one is blaming the other band members for his decisions... but they are criticizing their desires while their bandmate was obviously suffering. I mean, if they really cared and recognized that Stapp needed help... they could have, collectively, decided to postpone the tour in order to encourage Stapp to sober up and rest. How hard is that? Towards the last days of the Weathered Tour, Stapp looked terrible... it was obvious that something was wrong with him.

[Mrprophetman]

I have to laugh at those who now claim that Mark, Flip, management, etc. did nothing to help Stapp with his problem. To them I would like to post a little reminder: Cameron paid for one of Stapp's many rehab sints (so much for not helping.) And then he had to sue Stapp to get his money back; that's how grateful Stapp was for the help.)

I wouldn't want to pay for help to get unaddicted to something that Hanson and Cameron bullied me into taking so they could make their cut of the profits. Wonder how much money Hanson Management made from the fact that the Tour rolled on? Funny though, now Hanson is selling his Creed records on Ebay.

[Mrprophetman]

yeah, Stapp had better be saving HIS money as well...and he may need to choose some LESS expensive leather pants...

Actually, I have watched most of the interviews he's done, and he appears to have ditched the leather pants. I think the Stapp of today is coming from a bit of a different place.

[Dogstar]

No one is blaming the other band members for his decisions... but they are criticizing their desires while their bandmate was obviously suffering. I mean, if they really cared and recognized that Stapp needed help... they could have, collectively, decided to postpone the tour in order to encourage Stapp to sober up and rest. How hard is that? Towards the last days of the Weathered Tour, Stapp looked terrible... it was obvious that something was wrong with him.
Well, we all live in the real world, I don't know about you. You're whole outlook on this strikes me as really naive. Sorry, we just disagree.

[evyllsummer]

Actually, I have watched most of the interviews he's done, and he appears to have ditched the leather pants. I think the Stapp of today is coming from a bit of a different place.

so, I guess that the Stapp in the video to TGD isn't the Stapp of "today", then?

[Chase]

Well, we all live in the real world, I don't know about you. You're whole outlook on this strikes me as really naive. Sorry, we just disagree.

There's nothing "naive" about thinking that people should have the common courtesy to care about one and another. For me to say that the rest of band and management were not being a bit greedy, I suppose, would warrant you to label me as "naive."

[Dogstar]

There's nothing "naive" about thinking that people should have the common courtesy to care about one and another. For me to say that the rest of band and management were not being a bit greedy, I suppose, would warrant you to label me as "naive."
Once again, you are assuming the rest of the band didn't care about Stapp. You don't know that. So yeah, I think your outlook on the situation is naive.

[Ana4Stapp]

Even though I think thats too hard to try help someone who dont want to be helped (and I think this was Stapp's case) ...honestly saying -'having common courtesy to to care about one and another' doesnt work when (much) money is involved. This is a fact. ;)

[Bridge of Clay]

I'm positive they did everything they could to help Stapp until they had to let him go... it wasn't working, Stapp didn't want to be helped, he wasn't ready for that.

Maybe the best thing was to be left alone so reality could strike him. It didn't seem to work though... but I hope now he's engaged and is starting his new career he can make it.

[evyllsummer]

I wouldn't want to pay for help to get unaddicted to something that Hanson and Cameron bullied me into taking so they could make their cut of the profits.

so, if what you're saying is true, then Stapp has no problem TAKING the help, he just doesn't want to PAY for it? Is Stapp the "victim" of the band's "bullying"? If so, why would he take the help at all if he didn't want it?

In any case, I must commend you on being able to immediately place the responsibility of Stapp's drug addiction at someone ELSE'S feet after only a week or so ago arguing that there were no other drugs involved other than prednisone and alcohol...that must have taken some quick adjustment...here it is, by the way...this was your response to my question asking you if you believed that prednisone was the only drug involved:

I don't have an impression about anything....I'm sure that alcohol played a part in the equation. Alot of people drink when they are depressed. That is a side effect of use of the drug prednisone....depression. Being treated by a physician that can no longer practice medicine probably didn't help either. He had Ozzy Osbourne on anti-psychotics. Now Ozzy is a weird guy, but I don't get the idea that he is psychotic. But hey, he kept Ozzy singing, so why not let him pump Stapp full of crap to keep him going too. Good thing Ozzy sued, or the guy would still be practicing medicine. I've had family members who had to take prednisone. What it does to a person's personality isn't pretty. And they weren't on it for months on end. Stapp is lucky he didn't die.

[Bridge of Clay]

Once again, you are assuming the rest of the band didn't care about Stapp. You don't know that. So yeah, I think your outlook on the situation is naive.

exactly.

[The Lithium]

Well...if Stapp really show that he's up on his legs again and is through with his problems, then Mark have to forgive him at some point...or has he lost his whole faith in Stapp forever?! If so, then Mark's a very weak man!
Well, yeah, I guess the has lost his faith in Stapp. But that doesn't have to mean he can't forgive him? He said he already has. Long time ago. But he just don't wanna play with the guy! He's happy with Myles and Alter Bridge. Why would he want to look back in anger?

Maybe the best thing was to be left alone so reality could strike him. It didn't seem to work though... but I hope now he's engaged and is starting his new career he can make it.
Yeah, but sadly enough, that man spent the top of his career drunk in a tour buss.

[Chase]

Well, yeah, I guess the has lost his faith in Stapp. But that doesn't have to mean he can't forgive him? He said he already has. Long time ago. But he just don't wanna play with the guy! He's happy with Myles and Alter Bridge. Why would he want to look back in anger?


Yeah, but sadly enough, that man spent the top of his career drunk in a tour buss.

Actually, it seems like he was more drunk in bars...

[The Lithium]

Yeah, whatever... You get my point...

[crest tattoo]

The saying "you don't know the half of it" really rings true here guys. We really don't know much of what happens at all, only what some people "choose" to release. I think it's time to give the guy a break. He's confessed and is trying to move on. I hope God is with him.

[creedlvr]

Wow! I guess I came in pretty late in all of this!

I feel really sad to see how messed up Stapp was/is. Hopefully, he will get it together now. I haven't been happy with the stuff I've been reading about him lately and found myself thinking ... "What the F is this guy's problem?? He's just acting like such a screw up and is ruining his life ... and his son's!" I'm not happy to hear he had been doing drugs and drinking so heavily for so long, but at least it explains a lot. I just REALLY hope he can stay sober now. I think that talking about it .... FINALLY .... may be the key. As they say ... the first step is admitting it. I WISH HIM MUCH LUCK ... for his sake and for his son's.

As far as the blame-game goes ...
I really didn't get that from the article. By coming clean, I think Stapp did take much of the blame. I think he was trying to be as honest as possible. I felt a different kind of humbleness to the article that I didn't always feel in reading other articles.

I agree that the troubles started because of Stapp. I believe that he inflates his problems. I'm sure that feeling like the band was hated because of him, his divorce, health problems, etc. pushed him to a point where he felt alone and depressed ... but he does seem to go through this self-destruction pattern over and over ... as indicated by his early days/writings - MOP- of hitting a very low point and then realizing it and trying to get back on track. Then again ... as indicated by his "Relearn Love" time period. Now, here we are again. I love the guy ... but, he needs to clean up .... ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! It's getting old. He's an adult with responsibilities (his son!) and he NEEDS to pull it together. He's burned a lot of bridges and it may not be possible to mend all of them. Hopefully, he will be able to mend most of them ... at least the important ones.

As for the rest of the band...
I don't think it's any secret that I am not a fan. I do, however, see how it could get very old .... trying to help someone that doesn't want help (if they did, in fact, try to help), or stand up there and have to cover for a guy who's acting like a total ass.

On the other side, I don't believe that no one else played a part in this. I think there is at least some truth to "others" being a bit self-serving. I agree that you can't help someone who doesn't want help ... and I agree that it would be easy to make the decision to give up on someone after years of putting up with their nonsense. I do, however, think that Mark was very focused on wanting to do his own thing and that probably made it easier to cut the ties ... a bit of "who needs to deal with this" and a bit of "I want to do my own thing anyway." On one hand, I can't blame him ... but on the other hand, I really don't respect how he's handled things. I'm sure he's probably bitter (and rightfully so) and I understand that his comments about Creed are coming from a place of bad memories based on the bullshit that was going on .... but as a Creed fan, I still don't like hearing it. To me, he just seems a bit too self-serving. Now, I'm not saying that he should have to deal with all the nonsense or that he should be able to work a miracle and help someone who doesn't want it. Only Scott can help Scott ... but someone should have stopped the last tour. I'm not saying it should've been Mark, or that stopping the tour would have fixed everything ... but perhaps it would have kept things from getting as bad as they did. Again ... I realize that Scott is mostly to blame ... but I don't believe that Mark is the poor guy just trying to do what he enjoys the most who was left with no alternative than to give up on his many efforts of trying to help a friend.

I think that Mark can stick with his heavy guitar riffs and Scott can continue to self-destruct if that's what they both choose to do ... but I still say that the result of their music was better when they were together than it is when they're apart. Maybe nobody was happy before ... but the music (and success) was better when they were together.

Hopefully, Scott will get his act together and Mark can ease up on the bitterness and find some forgiveness in his heart. It may not result in a Creed reunion ... but at least it may help everyone find some peace and not forget that some good did come out of Creed and that the memories aren't all bad.

Sorry for the long post. I haven't posted for a while so I figure I made up for it!

[bobben]

I found the perfect song to sum this all up! You know Daniel Powter...the guy with the "Bad Day"-song....he's got a new hit out called "Jimmy gets high"! It's clear that Scott's not the only one to have these problems! :D
Just change the name with "Scotty" and you're there! ;)
Jimmy you know, everybody hates you when you're living off rock 'n roll
So you get high tonight
And Jimmy you lied, I wonder if you ever get yourself back here alive
So you get high tonight

'Cause you don't need nobody to make it on your own
You dont need nobody you'd rather be alone
So Jimmy gets high tonight

It's kinda catchy! :p

[Chris98GT]

"And in an instant," he says, "I just turned and shot the house up.
That's fucking awesome.

[Mrprophetman]

I just think, this board as a whole, should at least be happy that the guy has come clean about his problem and seems to be looking for help.


That will NEVER happen here.

[Mrprophetman]

so, if what you're saying is true, then Stapp has no problem TAKING the help, he just doesn't want to PAY for it? Is Stapp the "victim" of the band's "bullying"? If so, why would he take the help at all if he didn't want it?

In any case, I must commend you on being able to immediately place the responsibility of Stapp's drug addiction at someone ELSE'S feet after only a week or so ago arguing that there were no other drugs involved other than prednisone and alcohol...that must have taken some quick adjustment...here it is, by the way...this was your response to my question asking you if you believed that prednisone was the only drug involved:

Your pretty freaking naive if you think that Hanson wouldn't condone anything that kept Stapp stepping on stage every night. I've read the damn Rolling Stone interview. For months I've heard everyone here call him a liar. For months they said there would be no album..and if by chance one did appear it would suck. Now the guy has come clean and admitted his problems...only catch is he said some not-so-nice things about his ex-bandmates. If Tremonti had made the statement about something being said in a management meeting....no one here would disbelieve him. I think all of you are pretty naive if you think that Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips aren't capable of being just as big of an asshole as you claim Scott Stapp is. What makes them so freaking special that they aren't capable of being jerks themselves? Just cause they have been nice to you? Hell yeah they are nice to you. You bought a ticket or you bought a CD.

I'm actually glad that Stapp is away from them. It appears to have had a positive impact on his life, though I'm sure most of you freaking people wouldn't see it that way. Regardless of what any of you think, I wish the man much luck in dealing with what he's going through....its called COMPASSION.

[Mrprophetman]

so, I guess that the Stapp in the video to TGD isn't the Stapp of "today", then?

Well I watched that video and they certainly look like cloth pants to me....but maybe you were there, and you were watching to make sure just what kind of pants he squeezed his ass into.:D I'm not into looking at what his ass is squeezed into myself.

[RMadd]

wowie kazowie, was that a doozy! very very veeeeeeery interesting, very informative. assuming everything in there is true & accurate (i have no reason to believe otherwise), it's an excellent insight into creed's demise, something basically every fan has been clamoring for for the past few years here. thanks a bunch vliegs!

[evyllsummer]

Well I watched that video and they certainly look like cloth pants to me....but maybe you were there, and you were watching to make sure just what kind of pants he squeezed his ass into.:D I'm not into looking at what his ass is squeezed into myself.

um, you just said that you DID look at it...otherwise, how would you know enough of a difference between cloth (which must have been quite shiny cloth) and leather pants enough to come back and attempt the argument? Besides, YOU seemed to be QUITE aware of the sorts of pants that he's been wearing in his many recent interviews, since you made a point of claiming that he has been wearing jeans...here it is:

Actually, I have watched most of the interviews he's done, and he appears to have ditched the leather pants.

in short, you have shown to be just as interested (if not MORE) in what style of pants that your man Stapp is wearing...(the quote "the lady doth protest too much, methinks" comes to mind)...in the future, if that argument were to present itself again, you MIGHT want to say something like, "hey, man, I don't know if he's wearing leather or not", thereby indicating that, having not looked, you wouldn't know one way or the other...just a helpful tip...

Your pretty freaking naive if you think that Hanson wouldn't condone anything that kept Stapp stepping on stage every night.

well, since you're quoting ME, I'll ask you: are you NOW attempting to blame Stapp's addiction on Hanson now instead of Mark? I'm getting confused...it would be easier for all of us if you would simply stick to ONE scapegoat for Stapp's behavior (you know, OTHER than Stapp himself)...

also, you didn't really answer the question of mine that you quoted...maybe it was too vague...I'll attempt to tighten it up and make it a bit more specific:

this is what YOU said:

I wouldn't want to pay for help to get unaddicted to something that Hanson and Cameron bullied me into taking so they could make their cut of the profits.

so, here's the question, and I'll personalize it: if YOU didn't want to PAY for any help with your addiction because you felt that it wasn't your fault, then why would you TAKE the help in the first place?

And since you're throwing the "naive" remark in MY direction, I think that you need to take another look at precisely whom is truly deserving of the naive moniker since YOU were the one that couldn't see all of Stapp's behavior and conclude that he was, in fact, addicted to a LOT more than prednisone despite the fact that MANY here have suspected it for some time...in fact, as I recall, MY response (which was PRIOR to the RS article) to your "naive" remark about Stapp and his prednisone and alcohol abuse was this:

you said "yeah...right" (I'm assuming an exercise in sarcasm) when referring to Mark's supposed ignorance of Stapp's off-stage antics, meaning that you must think that Mark isn't telling the entire truth, and I think you're right about that. I think that Mark knew that Stapp was abusing drugs OTHER than "prednisone" and didn't want that to get out. So, would that have been Mark's fault as well? If so, what part of it? The drug abuse? Not putting him in rehab? (Or has he been in rehab before?)


which one of us was PROVEN right?

[Dogstar]

For months they said there would be no album..and if by chance one did appear it would suck.
I did suspect that, and it turned out I was right, at least for me :D. I do like Justify, though, and I'm going to hit one show of his because I'm curious as hell as to what he will sound like. So far, the radio shows and the TV appearances have done nothing to discount my contention that his voice has gone pretty downhill since the Weathered days. I did enjoy his live shows with Creed and I'm really hoping he doesn't suck.

[Mrprophetman]

I did suspect that, and it turned out I was right, at least for me :D. I do like Justify, though, and I'm going to hit one show of his because I'm curious as hell as to what he will sound like. So far, the radio shows and the TV appearances have done nothing to discount my contention that his voice has gone pretty downhill since the Weathered days. I did enjoy his live shows with Creed and I'm really hoping he doesn't suck.


But.....what was it that made his voice go downhill since the Weathered days. How about people asking you to sing despite nodules on your vocal cords....nobody ever seems to mention that.

[Dogstar]

But.....what was it that made his voice go downhill since the Weathered days. How about people asking you to sing despite nodules on your vocal cords....nobody ever seems to mention that.

The circumstances don't matter at this point. The deterioration is what it is. I just really hope he sounds good live.

[Mrprophetman]

The circumstances don't matter at this point. The deterioration is what it is. I just really hope he sounds good live.


Well I think they do. Everybody wants to make the statement his voice is shot, but never mention WHY.

[Mrprophetman]

um, you just said that you DID look at it...otherwise, how would you know enough of a difference between cloth (which must have been quite shiny cloth) and leather pants enough to come back and attempt the argument? Besides, YOU seemed to be QUITE aware of the sorts of pants that he's been wearing in his many recent interviews, since you made a point of claiming that he has been wearing jeans...here it is:



in short, you have shown to be just as interested (if not MORE) in what style of pants that your man Stapp is wearing...(the quote "the lady doth protest too much, methinks" comes to mind)...in the future, if that argument were to present itself again, you MIGHT want to say something like, "hey, man, I don't know if he's wearing leather or not", thereby indicating that, having not looked, you wouldn't know one way or the other...just a helpful tip...



well, since you're quoting ME, I'll ask you: are you NOW attempting to blame Stapp's addiction on Hanson now instead of Mark? I'm getting confused...it would be easier for all of us if you would simply stick to ONE scapegoat for Stapp's behavior (you know, OTHER than Stapp himself)...

also, you didn't really answer the question of mine that you quoted...maybe it was too vague...I'll attempt to tighten it up and make it a bit more specific:

this is what YOU said:



so, here's the question, and I'll personalize it: if YOU didn't want to PAY for any help with your addiction because you felt that it wasn't your fault, then why would you TAKE the help in the first place?

And since you're throwing the "naive" remark in MY direction, I think that you need to take another look at precisely whom is truly deserving of the naive moniker since YOU were the one that couldn't see all of Stapp's behavior and conclude that he was, in fact, addicted to a LOT more than prednisone despite the fact that MANY here have suspected it for some time...in fact, as I recall, MY response (which was PRIOR to the RS article) to your "naive" remark about Stapp and his prednisone and alcohol abuse was this:



which one of us was PROVEN right?

You would probably argue with a freaking rock wouldn't you? I'm not blaming Hanson and Cameron with anything, but I'm betting they would have done anything to keep from having to cancel another show. I know what the man was addicted to. Painkillers, prednisone, and medication for anxiety attacks. Are you privy to anything else? Oh....I forgot....Alcohol.

Actually, I'm not really into looking at other men's asses. I've watched the videos that are available and I haven't seen him wear leather. But since you say its leather....then lets just agree with YOU. Since apparently, you know it all.

[Dogstar]

Well I think they do. Everybody wants to make the statement his voice is shot, but never mention WHY.
Why is that important NOW? What's done is done. It's history now. I don't see the point in going on about what caused it. We're all well aware of that. His voice has deteriorated, and we know why, and that's that. I see no point in rehashing the circumstances.

[MissSeeker]

It's sad to see how little some people including Tremonti and Philips seem to care about Scott. Lets hope he finds the support he needs in his new wife.

[Robin101]

Now the guy has come clean and admitted his problems...only catch is he said some not-so-nice things about his ex-bandmates. If Tremonti had made the statement about something being said in a management meeting....no one here would disbelieve him. I think all of you are pretty naive if you think that Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips aren't capable of being just as big of an asshole as you claim Scott Stapp is. What makes them so freaking special that they aren't capable of being jerks themselves? Just cause they have been nice to you? Hell yeah they are nice to you. You bought a ticket or you bought a CD.

I'm actually glad that Stapp is away from them. It appears to have had a positive impact on his life, though I'm sure most of you freaking people wouldn't see it that way. Regardless of what any of you think, I wish the man much luck in dealing with what he's going through....its called COMPASSION.

I have to agree with a majority of what you say Prophet. After reading the interview I have a lot of sympathy with him - even though the sympathy is a result of his problems caused by his own actions.

I think that the Stapp we read in this particular interview was sincere and humble (as was stated in the article). The one thing I have admired about Stapp during the turbulance of his professional life is his ability to not go out of his way to bash his ex-bandmates. He may have said some negative things about them but it has never reached the bashing level - just his opinions on what they could/couldn't have done. When I read articles involving AB it seemed the majority of the interviews were based around 'Stapp stories'.

It does seem like a majority of people believe whatever Tremo and Flip say and I do find that pretty naive - there's definitely more to the split than what we've heard.
I do hope that Stapp continues with his personal progression - something seems to have snapped inside him. Also, I hope that it can have a positive effect on his work - so he can build on a solid debut album.

Take Care

[RockGoddess]

Your pretty freaking naive if you think that Hanson wouldn't condone anything that kept Stapp stepping on stage every night. I've read the damn Rolling Stone interview. For months I've heard everyone here call him a liar. For months they said there would be no album..and if by chance one did appear it would suck. Now the guy has come clean and admitted his problems...only catch is he said some not-so-nice things about his ex-bandmates. If Tremonti had made the statement about something being said in a management meeting....no one here would disbelieve him. I think all of you are pretty naive if you think that Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips aren't capable of being just as big of an asshole as you claim Scott Stapp is. What makes them so freaking special that they aren't capable of being jerks themselves? Just cause they have been nice to you? Hell yeah they are nice to you. You bought a ticket or you bought a CD.

I'm actually glad that Stapp is away from them. It appears to have had a positive impact on his life, though I'm sure most of you freaking people wouldn't see it that way. Regardless of what any of you think, I wish the man much luck in dealing with what he's going through....its called COMPASSION.

Believe it or not, I do understand what you are saying. I can only offer my experience with a girlfriend, who I considered very close, that became addicted to crack cocaine. I took her every incoherrent phone call. I picked her up when she called me and couldn't drive. My husband, a police officer, had her deliberately pulled over and kept safe until he could arrive to take her home. But there came a time when her addiction began to infiltrate my home, my life, my happiness. I have three children and their protection and safety is my number one concern. Finally, one night, I had to lay it all out with her. I told her to never contact me again. If she got clean and sober my door would be open, but until then she was not permitted in my life.

Does that make me an asshole? I don't want to assume what Mark or Flip were thinking, or what point they were at, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had reached that same point with Stapp.

I will be thrilled for Stapp if he can make his life better; not only for himself but for his son, and his fiance.

[Mrprophetman]

I have to agree with a majority of what you say Prophet. After reading the interview I have a lot of sympathy with him - even though the sympathy is a result of his problems caused by his own actions.

When I read articles involving AB it seemed the majority of the interviews were based around 'Stapp stories'.

It does seem like a majority of people believe whatever Tremo and Flip say and I do find that pretty naive - there's definitely more to the split than what we've heard.

Take Care

Well, the only people that Alter Bridge can blame for that is themselves. They are the ones who chose to promote themselves in that way. You gotta wonder if because they continually harped on what Scott did or didn't do, that eventually, no one wanted to interview them unless they were willing to rip on Stapp. They can't blame anyone but themselves for that. They seemed more willing to talk about Stapp than they were about themselves. I wonder if they will make that mistake the second time around....I hope they learned from it.

Creed was one of my favorite bands. I've read here and at other websites that Tremonti was the real creative genius behind Creed. If I support Stapp in his efforts to get clean and change his life, I'd be just as supportive of any of the others who had the same problem. But, you will never convince me that Stapp wasn't an active participant in what made Creed....Creed. All you have to do is read the lyrics to an Alter Bridge song....and there is no way you can convince me that Mark Tremonti provided more than a line or a word in some instances. That's how much of a difference there is between the two....sorry that's just my opinion. You will never convince me that Stapp wasn't a participant in Creed's success.

[RMadd]

I think all of you are pretty naive if you think that Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips aren't capable of being just as big of an asshole as you claim Scott Stapp is. What makes them so freaking special that they aren't capable of being jerks themselves? Just cause they have been nice to you? Hell yeah they are nice to you. You bought a ticket or you bought a CD.
it seems to me most people appear to take Tru & Flip's side for a couple of reasons:
1) Stapp visibly had prooblems during the band's demise: allegations of drug use (even had these allegations been proved false, an accusation against someone never looks good), and of course the infamous chicago show.

2) AB came out w/ their debut pretty much on schedule. Stapp didn't. This, naturally, leads people to think that AB is perhaps more reliable than Stapp, even if the 2 are unrelated.

3) Comments to the media: AB came across as more frank, realistic, and honest (if not wholly motivated by a desire to utterly trash Stapp's public image) than did Scott. The singer, at least for the first while, was talking about potentially getting back together someday. AB, meanwhile, continued to take stab after stab at the fallen Stapp.

I'm actually glad that Stapp is away from them. It appears to have had a positive impact on his life, though I'm sure most of you freaking people wouldn't see it that way. Regardless of what any of you think, I wish the man much luck in dealing with what he's going through....its called COMPASSION.
I honestly do feel for Stapp. The article revealed a much deeper insight into what he's dealt with over the past 3 years or so. He's certainly in my prayers, and he does seem to finally be on the right path. However, being apart from Flip & Tru didn't do him much good for the first year or two. The article mentions his problems while in the studio recording for the Passion album. At this same point in time, if I recall correctly, he was appearing on talk shows, discussing how he'd cleaned up and found God and recommitted his life to Him. This, however, only finally appears to be happening.

[Robin101]

Well, the only people that Alter Bridge can blame for that is themselves. They are the ones who chose to promote themselves in that way. You gotta wonder if because they continually harped on what Scott did or didn't do, that eventually, no one wanted to interview them unless they were willing to rip on Stapp. They can't blame anyone but themselves for that. They seemed more willing to talk about Stapp than they were about themselves. I wonder if they will make that mistake the second time around....I hope they learned from it.

Creed was one of my favorite bands. I've read here and at other websites that Tremonti was the real creative genius behind Creed. If I support Stapp in his efforts to get clean and change his life, I'd be just as supportive of any of the others who had the same problem. But, you will never convince me that Stapp wasn't an active participant in what made Creed....Creed. All you have to do is read the lyrics to an Alter Bridge song....and there is no way you can convince me that Mark Tremonti provided more than a line or a word in some instances. That's how much of a difference there is between the two....sorry that's just my opinion. You will never convince me that Stapp wasn't a participant in Creed's success.

There are members on this board who have obviously taken sides and if any negative comments are said about their 'preference' then they will defend them - sometimes with blind loyalty.

I happen to prefer Stapp's music and his contributions to Creed but I'm also a huge AB fan. I don't believe evertything Tremo and Flip say and neither do I in regards to Stapp - I just try and form an opinion on what I understand.

There is the possibilty that Stapp was 'hard done by' but in the eyes of a lot of fans it was a case of 'the boy who cried wolf'. It was interesting to hear what he had to say in the RS interview. He seemed honest and humble and a lot of what he stated he has said before.

After listening to ODR and TGD I happen to think there is more Creed in Stapp's music and I do believe that Stapp was the lyrical force behind Creed. However, some people dislike Stapp to the extent that they don't want him to have much credit. I've always been slightly curious when Tremonti insists that the split was a positive thing because Stapp always got the last say with Creed in the creative department - perhaps Stapp had a bigger input with the music then what we are led to believe. Just a thought!!

Take Care

[Dogstar]

After listening to ODR and TGD I happen to think there is more Creed in Stapp's music and I do believe that Stapp was the lyrical force behind Creed. However, some people dislike Stapp to the extent that they don't want him to have much credit. I've always been slightly curious when Tremonti insists that the split was a positive thing because Stapp always got the last say with Creed in the creative department - perhaps Stapp had a bigger input with the music then what we are led to believe. Just a thought!!

Take Care
I'll agree with that in regard to Weathered. That album was so much softer than the previous two records and, after having listened to the Great Divide, that was a direction Mark and Flip didn't want to pursue, IMO. I think Mark was getting frustrated musically with the direction Scott, and probably Wind Up, wanted Creed to go. It's funny, but Weathered had the least staying power of the Creed albums for me.

[titan9]

Same here, Dogstar. While I like quite a few of the tracks off Weathered, it in no way compares to Human Clay and My Own Prison. I still listen to MOP and sometimes HC on a regular basis, but haven't listened to Weathered in months. I don't have any desire to listen to the whole album because if I want to hear the tracks I really love("Bullets", "Freedom Fighter", "Weathered", "Stand Here With Me") I'll just listen to them on my MP3 player. It's not that Weathered was a horrible album...it just wasn't up to par with the previous two, imo.

[Dogstar]

^^^Agreed.

[Robin101]

Same here, Dogstar. While I like quite a few of the tracks off Weathered, it in no way compares to Human Clay and My Own Prison. I still listen to MOP and sometimes HC on a regular basis, but haven't listened to Weathered in months. I don't have any desire to listen to the whole album because if I want to hear the tracks I really love("Bullets", "Freedom Fighter", "Weathered", "Stand Here With Me") I'll just listen to them on my MP3 player. It's not that Weathered was a horrible album...it just wasn't up to par with the previous two, imo.

Yeah, it's funny...I always thought Weathered was my favourite but now I seem to put HC on if I want to listen to Creed. I think it's their strongest album - musically, lyrically and vocally - IMO Stapps voice was at its peak on this album.

I'm surprised you're not a My Sacrifice fan - just under the (rather weak) assumption that you're a WWE fan.

Take Care

[Robin101]

I'll agree with that in regard to Weathered. That album was so much softer than the previous two records and, after having listened to the Great Divide, that was a direction Mark and Flip didn't want to pursue, IMO. I think Mark was getting frustrated musically with the direction Scott, and probably Wind Up, wanted Creed to go. It's funny, but Weathered had the least staying power of the Creed albums for me.

I agree. I still consider Weathered a pretty solid album, even with all the aggro that came with making it. Just goes to show what a talented unit they were to create a decent third album - always difficult at the best of times.

Take Care

[Mrprophetman]

Believe it or not, I do understand what you are saying. I can only offer my experience with a girlfriend, who I considered very close, that became addicted to crack cocaine. I took her every incoherrent phone call. I picked her up when she called me and couldn't drive. My husband, a police officer, had her deliberately pulled over and kept safe until he could arrive to take her home. But there came a time when her addiction began to infiltrate my home, my life, my happiness. I have three children and their protection and safety is my number one concern. Finally, one night, I had to lay it all out with her. I told her to never contact me again. If she got clean and sober my door would be open, but until then she was not permitted in my life.

Does that make me an asshole? I don't want to assume what Mark or Flip were thinking, or what point they were at, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had reached that same point with Stapp.

I will be thrilled for Stapp if he can make his life better; not only for himself but for his son, and his fiance.

I've heard about you, and what you have said in the past about Stapp. Sorry if I might take issue with the sincerity of your last statement...that's just my opinion and nobody has to agree with it...generally nobody does.

P.S. Though alot of you think it sucked....Weathered has sold six million copies....700,000 copies in its first week of release. And Bullets....I read somewhere.....only made it to number 22 on the singles chart, so it wasn't exactly a number one single.

[Bridge of Clay]

I think musically Weathered is as solid as the others but it does lack in lyrical content, when judged in the standards of MOP and HC.

[RMadd]

<~~ ditto. as such, i rank HC slightly ahead of MOP (perhaps solely for my emotional attachment to it), and Weathered beneath both.

[titan9]

I think musically Weathered is as solid as the others but it does lack in lyrical content, when judged in the standards of MOP and HC.

I agree, I do think Weathered is solid as far as the music is concerned. But I still think that the guitar work is better on MOP. As far as lyrics are concerned, I think I like MOP and HC equally. Both have some amazing lyrics. Weathered's got some good stuff as well, but, again, not as good as the first two.

If I had to rank the Creed albums, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>Weathered. And if I factored in Alter Bridge and Stapp, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>ODR>TGD>Weathered.

[facelessmike]

And if I factored in Alter Bridge and Stapp, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>ODR>TGD>Weathered.

What a concept! But, if I did that I would go crazy because it would be constantly changing. :confused:

[Vliegs]

I've heard about you, and what you have said in the past about Stapp. Sorry if I might take issue with the sincerity of your last statement...that's just my opinion and nobody has to agree with it...generally nobody does.

P.S. Though alot of you think it sucked....Weathered has sold six million copies....700,000 copies in its first week of release. And Bullets....I read somewhere.....only made it to number 22 on the singles chart, so it wasn't exactly a number one single.

I'd heard about what Stapp's said and done in the past before this article came out. Sorry if I doubt the image and sincerity he's trying to portray in the article. :rolleyes:

[RMadd]

If I had to rank the Creed albums, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>Weathered. And if I factored in Alter Bridge and Stapp, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>ODR>TGD>Weathered.
for me, it's:
HC > MOP > ODR > Weathered > TGD

[Dogstar]

for me, it's:
HC > MOP > ODR > Weathered > TGD
My order: MOP > HC >ODR > Weathered > TGD...I don't even really like TGD as a whole. I do like Justified, though.

[Robin101]

HC>W>TGD>MOP>ODR - ODR is still a great album. This order would probably change next week!

[IamFilthy]

MOP>TGD>HC>W.............ODR doesnn't even make it. Don't get me wrong, I think Mark is awesome as hell,...but his lyrics are very elementary(IMHO) and I prefer the barritone Stapp over the tenor Myles

[Mrprophetman]

MOP>TGD>HC>W.............ODR doesnn't even make it. Don't get me wrong, I think Mark is awesome as hell,...but his lyrics are very elementary(IMHO) and I prefer the barritone Stapp over the tenor Myles

ELEMENTARY.....that's actually a good description.

[Mrprophetman]

Why is that important NOW? What's done is done. It's history now. I don't see the point in going on about what caused it. We're all well aware of that. His voice has deteriorated, and we know why, and that's that. I see no point in rehashing the circumstances.

It will always matter.....because it was all about

$$$GREED$$$

[Mrprophetman]

I'd heard about what Stapp's said and done in the past before this article came out. Sorry if I doubt the image and sincerity he's trying to portray in the article. :rolleyes:

Its called falling off the wagon....lots of people do it when trying to deal with an addiction. Take Scott Weiland for instance. Difference is his bandmates stuck with him through thick and thin.

[titan9]

I think Mark is awesome as hell,...but his lyrics are very elementary(IMHO)

I know I'm going to probably get flamed for this, but I agree. After listening to ODR for well over a year(and enjoying it, might I add) I've come to a few conclusions: 1. Myles is a helluva vocalist 2. Mark is an amazing guitarist and 3. Mark is an average lyricist. When you compare what he has written on this album(lyrically) to what Myles did in MF4(lyrically) or what Stapp did in Creed(lyrically), there is no comparison, as far as I am concerned. Mark is capable of writing some good stuff lyrically(look at the chorus of MOP, or the first verse of WTLF, for example), but I truly believe that Myles and Stapp are both much better lyricists than Mark is. My hope is that Myles does the bulk of the lyric writing for the next AB album.

[Ana4Stapp]

I. My hope is that Myles does the bulk of the lyric writing for the next AB album.

Same hope here.;)

[Vliegs]

Its called falling off the wagon....lots of people do it when trying to deal with an addiction. Take Scott Weiland for instance. Difference is his bandmates stuck with him through thick and thin.

Okay...you missed my point. I was completely parlaying the response you gave to RockGoddess right back at you to show you how juvenile your response was to her was to begin with.

If you're going to compare Stapp to Weiland you're going to have to pull more evidence that just Weiland for debating purposes. There are far more situations I could pull from showcasing a lead singer having the same behavior that Stapp exhibited and those bands going the exact same way that Creed did. Mr. Weiland, STP and Velvet Revolver are one of the exceptions to the rule. Not the common denominator throughout rock history which Stapp has followed and can be quite easily paralleled against.

*edited to add*

It will always matter.....because it was all about

$$$GREED$$$

Alright. Answer me this....who's the member from Creed who's been marketing themselves not only as the voice of Creed, but the entire musical composer behind Creed's music in interviews? Who's the one who's banking off Creed's name and songs, instead of his own for his SOLO record, constantly in advertisements and radio publicity tour stints to grasp more sales for his own record? Who's said "I will be performing Creed songs without the rest of Creed" during the tour for his SOLO record? Who's the one holding up royalty and album sales payments to ALL of the members of Creed in court b/c he thinks he should get a bigger cut than anybody else?

[Mrprophetman]

Okay...you missed my point. I was completely parlaying the response you gave to RockGoddess right back at you to show you how juvenile your response was to her was to begin with.

If you're going to compare Stapp to Weiland you're going to have to pull more evidence that just Weiland for debating purposes. There are far more situations I could pull from showcasing a lead singer having the same behavior that Stapp exhibited and those bands going the exact same way that Creed did. Mr. Weiland, STP and Velvet Revolver are one of the exceptions to the rule. Not the common denominator throughout rock history which Stapp has followed and can be quite easily paralleled against.

*edited to add*



Alright. Answer me this....who's the member from Creed who's been marketing themselves not only as the voice of Creed, but the entire musical composer behind Creed's music in interviews? Who's the one who's banking off Creed's name and songs, instead of his own for his SOLO record, constantly in advertisements and radio publicity tour stints to grasp more sales for his own record? Who's said "I will be performing Creed songs without the rest of Creed" during the tour for his SOLO record? Who's the one holding up royalty and album sales payments to ALL of the members of Creed in court b/c he thinks he should get a bigger cut than anybody else?

RockGoddess has made quite a reputation for herself. She's pretty famous for her hatred of Stapp. Someone told me that she accused him of closing down his foundation because he was destitute and needed the money and that he stole from it...nice to see that now its the Scott Stapp Foundation. He's also tying in the foundation with his tour...you know....canned goods for the homeless...giving back to each community where he plays. So NO....I don't think my response was juvenile at all. I was pretty much stating the truth.

If I'm not mistaken Alter Bridge also used a connection to Creed...so has Stapp...I'm betting that its the record label insisting on that. I've seen copies of One Day Remains with a Creed reference on them. They wanna sell records..and they feel a connection to Creed may help that along. Tremonti didn't want to do it, but when he figured out that no body knew who Alter Bridge was, he allowed the connection to Creed. They sure as hell talked about Creed alot more than they ever did Alter Bridge in every interview they ever gave. As far as I'm concerned, Stapp did write most of the lyrics to Creed songs...you won't convince me it was Mark Tremonti. Tremonti has just as much right to play Creed songs as Stapp does, but he's stated that he hates the music...can't even stand to listen to it. Maybe if he played Creed songs, more people would actually attend an Alter Bridge show...since there are lots of people out there that never got to see Creed live. I'm sure that musically it would be to the letter, but don't know about that singer.

How about Ozzy Osbourne....he was whacked out on drugs...perscribed by the same shitty physician that treated Stapp. But hey....Ozzfest still went on. What's the matter with being an exception? I guess nobody wants to be an exception anymore, huh.

As for Stapp's legal wranglings, I have no idea...what, do you search all the public records in Orange/Dade County to search out who is suing who? But then maybe you are a lawyer or a paralegal. I got better things to do with my time.

[Dogstar]

If I'm not mistaken Alter Bridge also used a connection to Creed...so has Stapp...I'm betting that its the record label insisting on that. I've seen copies of One Day Remains with a Creed reference on them. They wanna sell records..and they feel a connection to Creed may help that along. Tremonti didn't want to do it, but when he figured out that no body knew who Alter Bridge was, he allowed the connection to Creed. They sure as hell talked about Creed alot more than they ever did Alter Bridge in every interview they ever gave. As far as I'm concerned, Stapp did write most of the lyrics to Creed songs...you won't convince me it was Mark Tremonti. Tremonti has just as much right to play Creed songs as Stapp does, but he's stated that he hates the music...can't even stand to listen to it. Maybe if he played Creed songs, more people would actually attend an Alter Bridge show...since there are lots of people out there that never got to see Creed live. I'm sure that musically it would be to the letter, but don't know about that singer.
If you read the early interviews, the guys tried hard to avoid talking about Creed. It's the interviewers who steered the conversation toward Creed and the breakup. I'm sure they finally got sick of the questions, so yeah, after a while, there was a lot of talk on their part about Creed, the breakup and Stapp. The media wouldn't let it rest because that's all they cared about really. They weren't really interested in the music that much, not the majority of the reporters, anyway.

[nagpo]

for me, it's:
HC > MOP > ODR > Weathered > TGD
for me its
MOP> HC and Weathered tie> TGD> ODR

[TeriB19]

If you read the early interviews, the guys tried hard to avoid talking about Creed. It's the interviewers who steered the conversation toward Creed and the breakup. I'm sure they finally got sick of the questions, so yeah, after a while, there was a lot of talk on their part about Creed, the breakup and Stapp. The media wouldn't let it rest because that's all they cared about really. They weren't really interested in the music that much, not the majority of the reporters, anyway.
That's exactly what happened as I saw it, and I do believe that AB did try to avoid the Stapp comments as much as possible, but when all the media wants to know is "What happened??" and doesn't seem to care about the music, they finally had to start answering those questions to get to the musical questions.

[Trimontana]

for me, it's:
HC > MOP > ODR > Weathered > TGD

For me at the time that Creed were together listen to them had sense but now i care about the present, even i still i think MOP and HC are awesome, i listen to ODR and i would choose it right now a thousand times more than the Creed albums. Another reason i do it's cause i love Myles voice and his capacity to sing. About TGD :rolleyes: i don't really care to be honnest, *who said AB lyrics are elementary'?, i had a couple of listens to the cd and i though that this was REALLY 'elementary' *he repeats himself more at the chorus than a tuna sandwich*. And the rest of the lyrics are nothing fabolous. He's very far, far away to be compared with the Creed lyrics he suposses he wrote.
And yeah, i am sure Myles will participate on the new album. At the sound check in Madrid last year they were trying to complete a new track between Myles and Mark...the song sounded beautiful. I really can't wait to new album to be released.

[titan9]

Compared to the Creed lyrics(namely on the first two CDs), AB's lyrics are, imo, fairly elementary. If Uncertain were here, I'm sure he'd back me up. I've been a lyricist for nearly two years now and have studied poetry in depth. As a result, I have come to be, well, a tough one to please when it comes to lyrics. I personally want something that is deep and isn't generic. I want something that really makes me think. To illustrate my point, I'm going to pull some examples from AB and other artists who I happen to think have really good lyrics.

AB:
"As your will is bent and broken
and every vision has been cast into the wind
as your courage crashes down before your eyes
don't lay down and die

'Cause I see in you
More than you'll ever know
And I ask you, "Why
You question the strength inside?"
And you need to know
How it feels to be alive"

U2:
"I want to run
I want to hide
I want to tear down the walls
That hold me inside
I want to reach out
And touch the flame
Where the streets have no name

I want to feel sunlight on my face
I see the dust cloud disappear
Without a trace
I want to take shelter from the poison rain
Where the streets have no name

Where the streets have no name
Where the streets have no name
We're still building
Then burning down love
Burning down love
And when I go there
I go there with you
It's all I can do"

AB:
"Looking back I clearly see
What it is that's killing me
Through the eyes of one I know
I see a vision once let go
I had it all

Constantly it burdens me
Hard to trust and can't believe
Lost the faith and lost the love
When the day is done

Will they open their eyes
And realize we are one
On and on we stand alone
Until our day has come
When they open their eyes
And realize we are one"

Creed:
"A court is in session, a verdict is in
No appeal on the docket today
Just my own sin
The walls are cold and pale
The cage made of steel
Screams fill the room
Alone I drop and kneel

Silence now the sound
My breath the only motion around
Demons cluttering around
My face showing no emotion
Shackled by my sentence
Expecting no return
Here there is no penance
My skin begins to burn"

AB:
"Drank so much last night I think that I drown
But now my cup is empty
No one has seen the will around and now my heart is aching
Sometimes I fall asleep for days
But now my bed is empty
I know I'm too set in my ways
Tell them all i'm okay

So burn it down
Discover the dusk of your day has reached it's dawn
So burn it down
Remember to find a new way to carry on"

Stapp:
"I met a man in New Orleans wore a half suit with dark blue jeans
Kicked his heels together winked at me real nice
I saw him from a mile away
But in my state of mind I let him make his play
"Hey boy, have you seen the other side?"
Yeah, in this man I saw the Devil's hand so I looked at him man to man
And said, "This time, it's gonna be a fight."

I do not have to justify
The way I live my life
I do not have to justify
The reason I'm alive...
No more...no more
.......
Let me change the timbre of this section
Add a little booze to the ice
I guess you've probably noticed
I've been living a double life
......
We fly around like we were Superman
Live in another trance
A different way to dance
With dark romance
You get another chance to do that dirty dance
without consequence"

AB:
"Fight the fight alone
When the world is full of victims
Dims a fading light
in our souls
Leave the peace alone
Now we all are slowly changing
Dims a fading light
in our souls

In my opinion seeing is to know
The things we hold are always first to go
And who's to say we won't end up alone"

Creed:
"An artificial season
Covered by summer rain
Losing all my reason
Cause there's nothing left to blame
Shadows paint the sidewalk
A living picture in a frame
See the sea of people
All their faces look the same
So I sat down for a while
Forcing a smile
In a state of self-denial
Is it worthwhile
Sell my pity for a dime
Just one dime"

AB:
"Watch your words
or your words might drown you
and cure my wounds
and the light will blind you

to truelly see well you must have faith
oh the righteous they can't wait
a saving grace that all we know
let us pray
let us hold on

I can't breath
I prefer to find a ceiling to this hate of mine
I can't win
I can't fight no more
I'm drowning
and I'm sick inside..."

Creed:
"I spent a day by the river
It was quiet and the wind stood still
I spent some time with nature
To remind me of all that's real
It's funny how silence speaks sometimes when you're alone
And remember that you feel
I said It's funny how silence speaks sometimes when you're alone
And remember that you feel

Again I stand, Lord I stand, against the Faceless Man
Again I stand, Lord I stand, against the Faceless Man

Now I saw a face on the water
It looked humble but willing to fight
I saw the will of a warrior
His yoke is easy and his burden is light
He looked me right in the eyes, direct and concise to remind me
To always do what's right
He looked me right in the eyes, direct and concise to remind me
To always do what's right"

I'm just going to stop there(and I apologize for the length of this post, but I wanted to really illustrate my point). Don't take this as me bashing AB; I really love the band and the music they have put out. I'm a huge fan and they are one of my favorite bands. The vocals are amazing, the musical aspect of it is great. But the lyrics.....are the glaring weakness in AB, at least as far as I'm concerned. For me, they aren't deep, they don't make me think and are just a tiny bit generic. I know that Mark is capable of writing better lyrics(look at the chorus to MOP and the first verse of WTLF) than what is on this album. And I know Myles could have written better lyrics for ODR(look at what he did for FTR). Granted, Stapp's lyrics are nothing amazing on his solo CD.....but I do not view them as being quite as generic as ODR's. And I know that Stapp is capable of great lyrics, just judging by what he did in Creed. So my hope for Stapp's next CD, and AB's, is that they both come up with better lyrics that aren't generic and are good. I'm looking forward to seeing what both do, and no matter what, I'm still a fan of both. I love the music too much to not be a true fan.

[Trimontana]

You all can think i'm thick but i'm still thinking AB lyrics are great. I think i dont need smart words or complicated phrases to make me think or touch me. I respect all your opinions, and i'm a huge music fan, but i really feel the way AB put their music up and i dont mind if some people think their lyrics are elementary...each person make a different meaning listening their songs and get touch more or less.

[IamFilthy]

I totally agree with you, Tiatan. I feel that the lyrics of ODR are their only true weakness. Mark Tremonti is not a great lyricist,...never has been. And even he knows it,.....here is an exerpt from an interview with Mark in the April 2001 issue of Guitar World magazine :

GW: What do you each(Stapp and Tremonti) bring to the table?

Tremonti: I'm the heavy guy. When we first got together, Scott wasn't very well versed in rock n' roll music. He liked U2 and the Doors. He liked singers that told a story and had some substance in their lyrics. Scott is a brilliant lyricist; he writes real deep and meaningful stuff. I write music and hum stuff pretty well. I come up with garbage kind of words, some that stick and most that don't. So when we get together, I put all my effort into the music and he puts all his into the lyrics. Then we finish the melodies together. We fill each other's voids. I have trouble writing lyrics and Scott can't play guitar.

[Dogstar]

I agree that AB's lyrics aren't that great. They are serviceable, but I hope that Mark will hand over the writing to Myles, who does a better job, IMO. It's not so much that they are generic, but they seem to lack a certain passion. I mean, look at Trent Reznor. He doesn't write anything really complicated, but his words are full of a range of emotions, like anger, isolation, pain, rage, longing. The words make me think and feel. I just think some of those elements are missing in Mark's stuff. His passion comes through the guitar. One of my favorite lyricists is Eddie Vedder. That guy can tell a story, for real.

[IamFilthy]

I agree,....Eddie is one of the better lyricists of modern rock. I also like the lyrics of Maynard James Keenan of Tool and A Perfect Circle.

[Dogstar]

I agree,....Eddie is one of the better lyricists of modern rock. I also like the lyrics of Maynard James Keenan of Tool and A Perfect Circle.
Same here.

[titan9]

I agree that AB's lyrics aren't that great. They are serviceable, but I hope that Mark will hand over the writing to Myles, who does a better job, IMO. It's not so much that they are generic, but they seem to lack a certain passion. I mean, look at Trent Reznor. He doesn't write anything really complicated, but his words are full of a range of emotions, like anger, isolation, pain, rage, longing. The words make me think and feel. I just think some of those elements are missing in Mark's stuff. His passion comes through the guitar. One of my favorite lyricists is Eddie Vedder. That guy can tell a story, for real.

Yeah, that could be what it is, Dogstar. When I hear AB's lyrics, for most of the songs, nothing really clicks with me. I don't think and I don't feel when I hear the lyrics. The music and vocals do something for me, but not the lyrics. They're servicable lyrics, yes(ESPECIALLY compared to the garbage that currently resides on mainstream radio), but they're just not up to the same level as the music and vocals are. Judging by what Myles did with the verses of FTR, and what he did in MF4, I know that he'd write better lyrics than Mark does. Which is why I am hoping(and praying) that Myles does the lyrics for the next CD. If that is the case....I think the next CD is going to be amazing.

As for Vedder, I haven't heard a lot of PJ stuff, but what I have heard I do like. He seems to have very creative(and original) lyrics.

I totally agree with you, Tiatan. I feel that the lyrics of ODR are their only true weakness. Mark Tremonti is not a great lyricist,...never has been. And even he knows it,.....here is an exerpt from an interview with Mark in the April 2001 issue of Guitar World magazine :

GW: What do you each(Stapp and Tremonti) bring to the table?

Tremonti: I'm the heavy guy. When we first got together, Scott wasn't very well versed in rock n' roll music. He liked U2 and the Doors. He liked singers that told a story and had some substance in their lyrics. Scott is a brilliant lyricist; he writes real deep and meaningful stuff. I write music and hum stuff pretty well. I come up with garbage kind of words, some that stick and most that don't. So when we get together, I put all my effort into the music and he puts all his into the lyrics. Then we finish the melodies together. We fill each other's voids. I have trouble writing lyrics and Scott can't play guitar.

Yeah, I kinda forgot about that quote. It is the truth, imo. Part of what made Creed so great was what Stapp and Tremo brought to the table: Stapp brought energetic vocals, meaningful lyrics, lots of charisma to the stage; Tremo brought catchy riffs, really good solos, passion on the guitar. Like Tremo said, they filled each other's voids.

[IamFilthy]

Yeah, I kinda forgot about that quote. It is the truth, imo. Part of what made Creed so great was what Stapp and Tremo brought to the table: Stapp brought energetic vocals, meaningful lyrics, lots of charisma to the stage; Tremo brought catchy riffs, really good solos, passion on the guitar. Like Tremo said, they filled each other's voids.

Only makes it all the more tragic

[Mrprophetman]

Okay...you missed my point. I was completely parlaying the response you gave to RockGoddess right back at you to show you how juvenile your response was to her was to begin with.

You want to know what I call juvenile? A fake Florida driver's license with a picture of a baboon on it.

[RMadd]

I'm really hoping Myles writes the lyrics for the next album. Tru sounded too much as though Stapp had gotten into his head (lyrically speaking). I guess I can't blame him, since that's what he was around for the better part of 10 years. But, in listening to The Mayfield Four and Alter Bridge, I find Myles' writing (esp. on Second Skin, which I absolutely love) to be superior. He doesn't write metaphorically, like Mark does. It's not necessarily bad, but if Mark wants a kick-ass metal band, and to ditch comparisons to Creed, Myles needs to take over.

[MissSeeker]

It's so strange that someone with 30 million fans can still feel hated.

[Bridge of Clay]

in all honesty, just because they sold over 30M records it doesn't mean they have 30M fans.

I have albuns from bands I'm not a fan... and many of them I bought for a song or two. And there are other CDs I don't even listen to anymore.

[Ana4Stapp]

I'm really hoping Myles writes the lyrics for the next album. Tru sounded too much as though Stapp had gotten into his head (lyrically speaking). I guess I can't blame him, since that's what he was around for the better part of 10 years. But, in listening to The Mayfield Four and Alter Bridge, I find Myles' writing (esp. on Second Skin, which I absolutely love) to be superior. He doesn't write metaphorically, like Mark does. It's not necessarily bad, but if Mark wants a kick-ass metal band, and to ditch comparisons to Creed, Myles needs to take over.

You said everything!!!! ;)

[The Lithium]

And if I factored in Alter Bridge and Stapp, it'd be like this: MOP>HC>ODR>TGD>Weathered.
Mine: TGD>MOP>W>HC>ODR

[titan9]

So you like TGD best of all? :D

I'm pretty sure you probably meant it like this:
ODR>HC>W>MOP>TGD

Because > represents(at least in mathematical terms) greater than, so in this case, ODR is greater than Human Clay which is greater than Weathered which is greater than My Own Prison which is greater than TGD. Unless you suddenly became a huge Scott Stapp fan.....in which case, perhaps you do like TGD best. :laugh:

[Ana4Stapp]

So you like TGD best of all? :D

I'm pretty sure you probably meant it like this:
ODR>HC>W>MOP>TGD

Because > represents(at least in mathematical terms) greater than, so in this case, ODR is greater than Human Clay which is greater than Weathered which is greater than My Own Prison which is greater than TGD. Unless you suddenly became a huge Scott Stapp fan.....in which case, perhaps you do like TGD best. :laugh:


LOL!!!!! I thought the same: Lith liking TGD better than ODR?????? :rolleyes:

[Trimontana]

It's so strange that someone with 30 million fans can still feel hated.
He wish :rolleyes:

[MissSeeker]

in all honesty, just because they sold over 30M records it doesn't mean they have 30M fans.

I have albuns from bands I'm not a fan... and many of them I bought for a song or two. And there are other CDs I don't even listen to anymore.

Obviously 30 million people liked Creed otherwise they wouldn't buy the albums.

[Bridge of Clay]

there's still a difference between liking Creed and liking a couple Creed songs.

I still listen to Creed, mainly Human Clay but still many people have it collecting dust on their shelves...

[titan9]

there's still a difference between liking Creed and liking a couple Creed songs.

I still listen to Creed, mainly Human Clay but still many people have it collecting dust on their shelves...

That is very true. My brother-in-law bought Creed's "Human Clay" because he enjoyed "With Arms Wide Open"(and it had a special meaning for my bro-in-law). He still has the CD, but it is collecting dust in his CD case. He hasn't touched it in years and isn't a Creed fan. Same can be said for my bro who bought "Weathered". He ended up not liking the CD all that much and that CD is collecting dust as well.

The thing is, before downloading became big, a lot of people were forced to buy CDs just for one or two good songs. I'm willing to bet that at least 20-40% of those who bought the three Creed albums did so for one or two big singles(Higher and WAWO, probably). I highly doubt that there's more than 10million true Creed fans out there. I mean, I know, a lot of the true fans probably aren't proclaiming their fandom because of the hit that Creed took after they became big(when hating Creed became the cool thing to do), but I still doubt that there are 20 million Creed fans out there.

Just my opinion.

[Trimontana]

Obviously 30 million people liked Creed otherwise they wouldn't buy the albums.

30 million people liked Creed music and not neceserrally liked Stapp, thats different

[MissSeeker]

I beieve Scott's personality is expressed in Creed music.

[Trimontana]

I beieve Scott's personality is expressed in Creed music.

Yeah, but once again Creed wasn't just Stapp. Creed were 3 more people as well. Without music theres no song and maybe Stapp wrote the lyrics but without Tremonti Stapp lyrics were nothing. A song can be instrumental but words without music isn't a song.

[MissSeeker]

I agree, but in my opinion Scott contributed to all parts of the sound.

[Dogstar]

I'm sure he did, vocally, but he didn't write the riffs and arrangements.

[creediscool17]

interesting that he went to rehab... on the cleveland promo interview this past summer he claimed that he just quit cold turkey and then he went in the bathroom and shaved his head... ?????

[TrulyAmazing]

really this thread is kinda of old there was a lot speculating as of why he shaved his head in all but it was done for the troopers and promotion for that tour made a statement that im with ya thats kinda cool

[Redeemer]

This thread is kinda long, is what it is. Yegods.

But since I could not recall having read the article (although I remember the first line distinctly, oddly enough), I read it... and damn. I had not even realized how young Stapp is. All of them, really, but I mean. Damn.

[TrulyAmazing]

This thread is kinda long, is what it is. Yegods.

But since I could not recall having read the article (although I remember the first line distinctly, oddly enough), I read it... and damn. I had not even realized how young Stapp is. All of them, really, but I mean. Damn.
yes indeed very young very young im refering to the dazeeeeeees of MOP ya,alls